Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Question Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Well, the photo place where i worked / helped out the guys from time to time went into bankruptcy and got most of their used equipment sold off by our version of the IRS.

    Now the younger guys from that place and me could probably rack up some money to get an used Imacon but I have read online that taking in an used imacon wouldn't be our brightest moment.

    Now if we were to have around 8-10 000$ between the 5 of us for the drum scanner where should one look ?
    We already found used colentas for a steal and would want to round up the services with a nice drum scanner...

    Should we even go the drum scanner route or just buy a pair of the new Plustek's 120 scanners when they arrive ? (in the process unfortunately ruling out LF customers)

    All your help and ideas are more than welcomed !

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sunnyvale, California
    Posts
    1,811
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    This is for scanning for clients?

    If you can find a nice used one, I would consider a high-end flatbed such as Eversmart. Wetmounting is much easier, and results are pretty darn good.

  3. #3
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,350
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    I have the same dilemma myself, and I'm tending towards the Plustek, but it will obviously have to show its abilities first. The price is also an unknown factor still. With regards to the Imacon/Hasselblad, it's important to remember that the resolution falls when scanning any format larger than 35mm. If you plan to print large, that may be a deal breaker.

    The disadvantages with older drum and high-end flatbed scanners are weight/size, service/part costs and not least the fact that many of them are based on computer interfaces that are dead or dying. Stocking up on Mac G3 units isn't a long term solution, at least not for me.

    But admittedly, the scanning results from the best professional gear have so far been vastly superior to any amateur scanner, even compared to the rather costly (overpriced?) Coolscan 9000. It will really be interesting to see what Plustek has managed to achieve with the 120. Photokina?

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    If you are considering this for a commercial enterprise, I'm curious as to why are you removing the Imacon/Hasselblad from the consideration list?

    My experience with the 949 (X5) was stellar. It was so fast that I could hardly prep the next image before the previous one was done ... 35mm under 2 minutes and 120 or 4X5 even faster. Prep was much simpler and dust was far less of an issue. Batch scanning was very easy. Excellent software is current and hardware is supported.

    The 949, and rebadged X5, features a more diffused light source compared to the 848 which I also used for some time. This light source difference produce a more darkroom enlarger look to the prints ... similar to the modifications many art photographers made to the legendary but long discontinued Minolta 120 MF scanner's light source. I used the modified Minolta prior, but after tested the Imacon by scanning the same negs, immediately switched to the Imacon.

    I never found the various resolution targets for different sized films to be an issue for really large display prints ... I scanned a lot of 120 and 4X5 for photo friends all over the world. The film flatness, D-Max of 4.9, lens quality, CCD quality and software all contributed to over-all IQ using realistic resolution targets for various sized film and their corresponding print resolutions.

    BTW, Magnum uses over 25 of these scanners. Magnum Photos

    Flextight X5

    Joel Meyerowitz

    When I sold off most of my film cameras to fund the H digital system, I also sold my mint 949 for $10,000. That was years ago, and the guy never returned to pick it up. It is still sitting on my desk behind me. Odd.

    -Marc

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    This is for scanning for clients?
    Yes, mostly commercial work but would "smuggle" my own negs when I see something fit enough for a drum scan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    But admittedly, the scanning results from the best professional gear have so far been vastly superior to any amateur scanner, even compared to the rather costly (overpriced?) Coolscan 9000. It will really be interesting to see what Plustek has managed to achieve with the 120. Photokina?
    Have you been following the thread over at the RFF we have a plustek employee there with a bit more first hand info over there, the announcement made quite a stir with us film guys. I might sell an M or something to get the scanner for personal use if it is as good as mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    If you are considering this for a commercial enterprise, I'm curious as to why are you removing the Imacon/Hasselblad from the consideration list?
    Marc, thanks for your in depth input, i have nothing against the X5 but have read that their refurb scanners are sometimes out of spec even after repeated returns to Hasselblad, dunno where I read that but made quite an impact on the message board. And the other thing is, where in the world would I be able to get an X5 with some kind of a warranty with it for "just" 10k$ ( i live in a place where an used Canonscan 9000 is 400$ so buying local is not an option ) , on the other side not having to wet mount ( i hated that and hated the amount of time involved ) and the batch neg and slide holders is quite an interesting aspect of the X5 scanner that would surely help in the commercial environment and help repay it's value quickly.

  6. #6
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,350
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Karlo,
    I haven't followed the thread on RFF, but there's one at photo.net with participation of a Plustek employee as well. Then there's their FB page which is updated regularly.

    Marc,
    The only thing that make me skeptical towards the Hasselblad/Imacon scanners is the relatively low resolution when scanning anything larger than 35mm. I understand that it's a side effect of their technology, but would see it as limitation when I have a need to print very large. One can obviously outsource large scans when needed, but then time and extra cost enter the equation.

    Hasselblad and Imacon scanners (together with the Coolscan 9000) hold their prices remarkably well, so there aren't really any bargains to be had.

    Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKpu0ySFM8M

    Edit 2: Apparently, it will be available in September.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 13th June 2012 at 09:36.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Marc,
    The only thing that make me skeptical towards the Hasselblad/Imacon scanners is the relatively low resolution when scanning anything larger than 35mm. I understand that it's a side effect of their technology, but would see it as limitation when I have a need to print very large. One can obviously outsource large scans when needed, but then time and extra cost enter the equation.
    Agreed, and only in house solutions are taken into consideration, there is no way to have any profit at all if we are going to develop, scan elsewhere, upload via fiber at our place and then again ship the final product...
    I know that the X5 is really a capable piece of hardware but we would need something that would do great results even with 4x5 ...
    As stated before all ideas and insights are more than welcomed.

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlo View Post
    Agreed, and only in house solutions are taken into consideration, there is no way to have any profit at all if we are going to develop, scan elsewhere, upload via fiber at our place and then again ship the final product...
    I know that the X5 is really a capable piece of hardware but we would need something that would do great results even with 4x5 ...
    As stated before all ideas and insights are more than welcomed.
    Hey, I'm not trying to sell anything here, but in general I'm not following the logic of scanning a 4X5 @ such high resolutions. For the most part it takes a lot longer, and is a huge waste of time IMO ... all you end up with is more sharply defined grain and film surface defects which isn't all that desirable for prints, and why the collimated light innovation of the 949/X5 is so desirable.

    I never found the Imacon 949 2020 ppi 4'X5" scans to be wanting in any way for prints up to 40" X 50" (the files were 500 meg 16 bit) ... the extremely rare times I needed scans beyond 40" X 50" using resolution over 200 ppi for nose on print viewing, we would simply up-res with Genuine Fractals ... this was for commercial applications like trade show booths where people were right on top of the images looking at product details.

    Lens acuity, quality of light/consistency, edge to edge sharpness, true D-Max and heat control under stress are far more important issues in my experience. Better explained here:

    http://www.gt-photography.com/articl...9%20Review.pdf

    -Marc

    P.S, I've never had one single issue with my 949 scanner, and my rep never had one returned for any reason.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Marc- I'm not saying you are trying to sell anything but If you weren't from the US I'd probably be sending you a PM regarding the 949 .

    The one thing I'm really sold on with the 949/X5 is the fact that there is no wet mounting needed, something only me and a pal that also worked from time to time there did, none of my friends who worked there ever got it right and even if I know how to do it It's too time consuming for my taste.

    Marc, I've got to tell you, you got me sold on the Imacon's...

    Does Hasselblad sell refurbs or used ?

    Regards,

    Karlo

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlo View Post
    Marc- I'm not saying you are trying to sell anything but If you weren't from the US I'd probably be sending you a PM regarding the 949 .

    The one thing I'm really sold on with the 949/X5 is the fact that there is no wet mounting needed, something only me and a pal that also worked from time to time there did, none of my friends who worked there ever got it right and even if I know how to do it It's too time consuming for my taste.

    Marc, I've got to tell you, you got me sold on the Imacon's...

    Does Hasselblad sell refurbs or used ?

    Regards,

    Karlo
    I'd contact a company rep directly and ask. I suppose it depends on where you are located if there is a local rep or some one that can inquire for you. In the US there is a phone number and a direct company contact to inquire about used and refurb gear. I don't know about elsewhere.

    Here is the dealer locator:

    Partner Locator

    I bought my 949 new USA at a big discount just when they were introducing the X series, which was nothing more than a cosmetic refresh and rebadging to the Hasselblad name. The 949 and X5 are the same scanner according to my rep.

    So, if you can locate a 949 that hasn't been a production scanner for a film service, that would be best.

    Did I mention how fast this thing is? And their published speeds are not exaggerated either. A little over 1 minute for a 3200 dpi medium format scan! I used to HATE scanning until I got this scanner.

    -Marc

  11. #11
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,350
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    There are a couple of Imacons for sale at the auction site for under $3,000, which makes them interesting options. The dark horse is still the yet to be released Plustek. Are SCSI to USB adapters trouble free for applications like this? I seem to remember some problems with that when I used the Coolscan 2000 a decade or so ago.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sunnyvale, California
    Posts
    1,811
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    I still use Coolscan 2000 and my Howtek drum scanner over SCSI on Windows - it sure isn't trouble-free. The Adaptec SCSI card I use only has 32-bit drivers so I have kept a Windows XP install just for scanning. Sooo archaic... There might be newer Adaptec cards that are supported with 64-bit drivers. So - yes, it's a mess. On OSX perhaps even more so, it's been a long time since Apple supported anything SCSI.

    Oh, and I'm fully with Marc re Imacon - for productivity in high-quality scans there is no better choice. It's just a level of investment that I as a hobbyist couldn't justify in the past, plus I needed to scan 8x10's, and now I have a good drumscanner setup.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Marc, I'm pretty much set that the Imacon is the right way to go for a commercial environment. I have sent emails to Hasselblad rep's in Germany, Austria, UK and Sweden , I asked specifically for used / refurb items or old stock of 949 Scanners - hope I get lucky.
    If the search for the Imacon X5 /949 fails what else should I take a look at ?

    Jorgen I'll definitely wait for the Plustek to see if I'll be able to acquire it for personal use, would want to get rid of my flatbeds asap as they are taking up too much space on my work desk at home.
    Lars - I'd want something more recent, I know my pc's and mac's but I hate to be tied in to legacy drivers and hardware especially when the parts and repairs become needed ....

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    Got one hit for 10 089€ ... Used by amateur in low volume environment. Am waiting for other reps/vendors I've contacted to reply.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    126
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    There is a Heidelberg Tango for sale on ebay for 3750$ should i jump on that ?

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Reykjavik, Iceland
    Posts
    2,311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    9

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    I use an X5 for my lab. I also auditioned an Eversmart Supreme. The Supreme ultimately had better scans for 4x5 since it could scan at 5500 dpi (compared to 2040). But it took an hour or more to do a 16bit scan at full resolution. It takes about 2 minutes on the X5. The X5 is also much much cleaner. Even wet mounting on the Eversmart left a lot more dust and scratches than were visible on the X5...having a glass free film path makes a huge difference. As Marc says, it is plenty of resolution to print even to 40x50. It is slightly soft if you put your face in the print at that size, but the hours you save are well worth it, and if you need bigger than that, you can send it out. The other thing to mention is that to use this (and most of the old scanners) you need an older computer set up and dedicated to scanning...the software will not work with modern operating systems, for the most part. Also, most of these scanning companies are long out of business or no longer servicing the equipment. While the ultimate quality of some of them is probably better than the Imacon and Hasselblad scanners, the Imacon and Hasselblad demolish them for speed and ease of use. I would say let the professional scanning technicians stick to the drum scanners and huge flatbeds, and simplify your life and productivity by just getting a used Imacon, Nikon or the new Plustek. If you are going to jump into a drum scanner, be prepared to spend a ton of time learning the ins and outs of the scanner's operation, software quirks, hardware quirks, how to do routine maintenance and so on.

    P.S. If you are going to get an Imacon, I would look at the 646...it is not nearly as fast as the X5, but it scans at the same quality (the 8000 vs 6300 dpi is not a practical difference, and they both scan 120 at 3200 and 4x5 at 2040). I had one before the X5, and I never really noticed much of a difference between it and the X5's diffusor. I know Marc does, but for me it was not a big deal. The speed, hell yes, but otherwise the quality is the same. If you are not in a high production environment, it would allow you to save many thousands of dollars, and it would still be 10 times faster than the closest flatbed or drum scanner.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    154
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    There is a Heidelberg Tango for sale on ebay for 3750$ should i jump on that ?
    Excellent scanner when it's in good condition. The particular offer is not too great, IMHO - you can get Newcolor/Linocolor (Silverfast would bevinteresting because it's expensive separately) within the community but the missing mounting station might be a bigger issue? Build-quality is much better than the "garage-made" scanners... You have various software-options with distinct advantages/disadvantages (but at least you have them). I will update my blog (drumscan.blogspot.de) soon to show the differences.

    The top-end Imacons (848/949/X5) give good results in 120/135, are convenient and fast. But many Imacons seem to be in bad condition!? I had several bad scans done with them.
    Last edited by georgl; 27th June 2012 at 01:58.

  18. #18
    New Member TomSteele's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Used Drum Scanner ideas ?

    main thing with the tango is we had to get Heidelberg down to re set everything up when we moved it into the new studio eventually we chucked it in the skip (litho printers all digital ctp now)

    nice bit of kit though depends how old

    also make sure you tape the negs down well remember one flying of the drum a few times not a pretty site to behold when the lad has to phone your major client to tell them he shredded there master neg LOL

    hope you get sorted mate

    Tom

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •