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Thread: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

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    SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Been thinking about these SSD drives compared to the 7200 rpm laptop drives. I have a older 2.4 MPB and just ordered a 4gb module to get it to 6 gbs but on some big shoots i have to send my MacPro in to get a lot of processing done. Needless to say this is risky with damage , theft and such. No issues with sending in a 24 inch monitor to rig up but how much gain can i expect from the SSD drives. If there is enough horsepower in them i can maybe get away with just using the laptop. In Moab when I processed with C1 it was not to bad but on these jobs i need to move pretty fast but still carried the MP for the classroom. There is not much else i can do performance wise but the Ram and the Hard drive, so do you think it is worth it and any recommendations. I think a 160gb would plenty here
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Been thinking about these SSD drives compared to the 7200 rpm laptop drives. I have a older 2.4 MPB and just ordered a 4gb module to get it to 6 gbs but on some big shoots i have to send my MacPro in to get a lot of processing done. Needless to say this is risky with damage , theft and such. No issues with sending in a 24 inch monitor to rig up but how much gain can i expect from the SSD drives. If there is enough horsepower in them i can maybe get away with just using the laptop. In Moab when I processed with C1 it was not to bad but on these jobs i need to move pretty fast but still carried the MP for the classroom. There is not much else i can do performance wise but the Ram and the Hard drive, so do you think it is worth it and any recommendations. I think a 160gb would plenty here
    Guy,

    The first thing I would be tempted to do is speed test your current drive, then you have a benchmark that you can compare with manufacturers' figures for their SSD drives. Do read and write tests, as SSD drives generally are known for being much slower at writing compared to their read speeds.

    I had a quick Google, but didn't find any free HD speed utilities for the mac. It was only a quick look though... maybe a more in depth search might turn something up.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Don't be wooed by the cheaper prices of the SSD drives using MLC flash memory. Go for the faster SLC memory and deal with 2x the price. The performance of the SLC drives are supposed to be much better.

    But.... you will never get the performance of a desktop on a laptop. The limiting factor is bus speed. Your bus speed on your 2008 2.4Ghz MBP is 800Mhz. The latest Mac Pro uses a 1600Mhz bus. Granted, the latest unibody MBP is 1066MHz, but a single dual core cpu running on 1066Mhz is just no match for an 8 core beast running on a 1600Mhz bus. Moving data between RAM and the CPU is more critical for performance than moving data to and from your HD.

    So, the SSD might give you a small performance boost along with the extra RAM, but your laptop still won't be Mac Pro (or anywhere close).

    My advice: get a Tenba Air Case for your Mac Pro and ship it safely. It costs a lot less than other alternatives.

    Good luck.

    David
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    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Don't be wooed by the cheaper prices of the SSD drives using MLC flash memory. Go for the faster SLC memory and deal with 2x the price. The performance of the SLC drives are supposed to be much better.

    But.... you will never get the performance of a desktop on a laptop. The limiting factor is bus speed. Your bus speed on your 2008 2.4Ghz MBP is 800Mhz. The latest Mac Pro uses a 1600Mhz bus. Granted, the latest unibody MBP is 1066MHz, but a single dual core cpu running on 1066Mhz is just no match for an 8 core beast running on a 1600Mhz bus. Moving data between RAM and the CPU is more critical for performance than moving data to and from your HD.

    So, the SSD might give you a small performance boost along with the extra RAM, but your laptop still won't be Mac Pro (or anywhere close).

    My advice: get a Tenba Air Case for your Mac Pro and ship it safely. It costs a lot less than other alternatives.

    Good luck.

    David
    Interesting information David. I'm in a similar situation, except that:

    1. I have a maxxed out 2.53Ghz unibody 15"mbp
    2. I don't have a mac pro, but a 2.8Ghz Imac

    The Imac is still a great deal faster than the MBP, which is what had led me to wonder about getting an SSD for the mpb (so easy to fit on the new ones).

    I thought that the imac and MBP would be roughly equivalent except for the drive . . . but perhaps I'm wrong?

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Why not wait a few weeks. I think there is going to be an update of the iMac and the thought is that they are going quad core. Perhaps the price of going to SSd can be better spent just using a good iMac when you need a machine on the road. Shipping an iMac vs. a cinema display shouldn't be that big of a deal.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Thanks David was not expecting my Mac Pro speed but more the point is theft. My Mac pro is unattended on a room for several days chained to a table , yes security at some places but i already had a 30 inch cinema stolen off the dock in LA. Also it get's trucked in several days or more depending being LA or NY and there is a lot of downtime here in the office before I go. Frankly overall it is a hassle and a risk I am tired of taking. The biggest issue is really just raw processing and to speed that up currently. C1 has gotten much faster in the latest versions which is awesome and that helps a lot on the MBP and I can process fairly fast with my current MPB. So not looking for earth shattering as my desktop but getting a little faster would be helpful and maybe eliminate the hassle and security issue. They may not steal the box but the ram and hard drives sitting in them also or worse case someone completely fries my system.

    Also I am 4 wheeling with it in Monument Valley when we are traveling on the workshops. Not very ideal going between points of shooting before hitting destination. Than chained up unsecured. Makes me nervous, if it happened once it can happen again as you know yourself.
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Guy:

    First off, the *ONLY* SSD drives I would consider at this point are the Intel X25's. And unfortunately, the only one that's SATA 2, the X25E, is only 32 Gigs. (And never mind it also costs $350!) The X25M's are SATA 1 and while the read speeds are fast, the writes are no better than current laptop drives, so you likely won't see any screaming performance boost. The other issue is we need the next generation SSD's to hit the market with some power saving options so we can increase battery life.

    Personally, I think this will be a good way to go eventually, but the prices need to drop by 1/2 and the SATA 2 capacities need to quadruple --- IOW, when Intel puts a 160G (minimum) SATA 2 X25E out for $300, I'll be all over it. And the way drive technology is moving up and prices dropping, that could happen by this fall!

    For the time being, the SATA 2 7200 drive you already have installed and the 6G ram you just ordered are probably close to "as good as it gets" with respect to laptop performance.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Guy:

    First off, the *ONLY* SSD drives I would consider at this point are the Intel X25's. And unfortunately, the only one that's SATA 2, the X25E, is only 32 Gigs. (And never mind it also costs $350!) The X25M's are SATA 1 and while the read speeds are fast, the writes are no better than current laptop drives, so you likely won't see any screaming performance boost. The other issue is we need the next generation SSD's to hit the market with some power saving options so we can increase battery life.

    Personally, I think this will be a good way to go eventually, but the prices need to drop by 1/2 and the SATA 2 capacities need to quadruple --- IOW, when Intel puts a 160G (minimum) SATA 2 X25E out for $300, I'll be all over it. And the way drive technology is moving up and prices dropping, that could happen by this fall!

    For the time being, the SATA 2 7200 drive you already have installed and the 6G ram you just ordered are probably close to "as good as it gets" with respect to laptop performance.

    Cheers,
    Hi Jack
    do you know which 256Gb SSD Apple are currently offering on the new 17"mbp?

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Well here is the one I was looking at which is MLC 160gb
    Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH160G1C5 160GB SATA Internal Solid state disk (SSD

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820167015

    Not cheap but sounds blazingly fast

    I could almost do the 80gb SLC. 128 gb would be far better though
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    This one also seems very fast but is MLC

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820161317
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    meilicke
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Would an external FW800 be any faster than an internal notebook drive? Maybe a stripped pair of disks in an external inclosure?

    I use iozone for speed testing. It will show cache effects (CPU and RAM), as well as disk performance. I used MacPorts to get it installed, although there may be prepackaged binaries as well.

    -Scott

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Guy,
    I have the 80GB Intel X25 in my unibody 15 MBP and I think it's really fast. Photoshop CS4 launches in about 2 seconds. It's silent and cool running. I use a LaCie rugged 500GB firewire 800 drive for storage and cache of photos on the road.

    Use XBench for benchmarking drives and the whole system.

    -Brad

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    I have the same LaCie. Thanks Brad good to know. If I can process pretty fast than it's perfect and also for shows and run powerpoint and keynote. If I can run those okay than I am really good to go. All I really have to do is transfer my drive data over and just lose my Itunes stuff and i can get down to about 48gbs leaving the rest for raw files for processing than dump them off afterward
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    Senior Member kweide's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    My ThinkPad X301 has 128 GB SSD. Think it is the Intel one.... lightning fast

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Guy:

    First off, the *ONLY* SSD drives I would consider at this point are the Intel X25's. ...
    Why?

    --------

    I guess right now "fast" doesn't get any faster than external DDR; not cheap, currently limited to 64GB, requires battery backup if you want to keep data in RAM after shutting down.

    http://www.hyperossystems.co.uk/

    They hype the HyperDrive5 for Photoshop applications, but who knows.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    Why?
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-SSD,2012.html

    I was curious too. It's performance really blows away any competitor.

    It seems like if drive performance was your bottleneck that external drives would work fine. It's still a lot less to haul around then a desktop.
    Charles - flickr

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Well I installed one. It's a Kingston which is the Intel with a different label on it. 80gb. Okay it is fast as hell. It boots extremly quick and CS4 opens in 3 seconds and every program has a major speed boost. Except C1 , yes i picked up 3 seconds on processing time but C1 is really processor dependent and without a new machine or motherboard than the speed increase is minimal on the processing time. It's silent and runs cool. Not sure on battery which should be longer. I look at it this way i have a old Santa Rosa processor in it bought way back in July of 07 it's 2.4. What this does is let's me skip this current generation and actually two generations. The only way to speed up C1 is going to be quad core or a 2.93 new generation but that maybe not enough. Snow Leopard maybe the answer. Now let me go back it is almost as fast as my MacPro loaded with 10k drives 12gb of Ram and all that 2.66 actually. So for C1 we need the faster processors but my Laptop is as fast as my desktop in every other way. So powerpoint for instance just flies and CS4 with 6gb of ram in the laptop is flying also. So for the shows I need to do it will work very well and that was the goal. Here it is but I actually got it from Dell since i have a account there for a little less.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134885
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by cjlacz View Post
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-SSD,2012.html

    I was curious too. It's performance really blows away any competitor.
    Thanks for the reply and the link.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    Thanks for the reply and the link.
    Sorry, I had missed your question -- thanks also to cjlacz!
    Jack
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well I installed one. It's a Kingston which is the Intel with a different label on it. ...

    Ok, good choice, now how do you secure that SSD?

    I'm using TrueCrypt for all of my HDD data, and definitely for all of my digital images. I'm presuming SSDs use a scheme like flash memory sticks to spread around where it writes data to prevent constantly using the solid state cells over and over and over; the idea being to extend the life of the SS memory.

    I'm guessing somewhere embedded in a SSD is an external library of what cells to write to, which ones not to write to, which ones are in use. Therein is the security vulnerability of SSDs -- IF SSDs do indeed employee a scheme to manage solid state cell writing similar to the scheme that flash memory uses.

    Ideas for securing an SSD?

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    How about dual drives in your Macbook Pro?

    One SSD for speed, one disk for capacity
    http://philikon.wordpress.com/2008/1...a-macbook-pro/

    Striped SSDs
    http://echeng.com/journal/2008/09/28...a-macbook-pro/

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Don't tempt me. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives


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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Thanks for the link, Chris.


    Sector remap fragmentation slowing Intel X25-M SSDs

    Intel's celebrated X25-M SSD may have just lost some of its luster. A new review indicates Intel's subsector wear-levelling actually causes massive fragmentation problems which are nearly impossible to fix. SSD advocates with persecution complexes, please report to the comments thread.


    It's that wear-leveling scheme that is the security vulnerability with any flash memory device.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Maybe every once in awhile you can clone off to a external than reformat the SSD and than reload. Does that sound like a solution. Actually very easy to do, just takes about two hours
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    I was thinking that a better solution might be to completely erase the SSD, using a zero write to "clean" all the registry and any lingering fragmented data. While taking a bit of time to do that, it may be worth trying on occasion after cloning stuff or backing things up. Intel claims that they cannot reproduce the results. However, they also go on to comment that the testing may be unrealistic use compared to how folks would normally "stress" these SSDs. That sounded like B.S. to gain some wiggle room until they can develop a better explanation and possible fix.

    LJ

  27. #27
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    You have competing ideas. Wear-leveling is technology that spreads around where data is written. It appears as if tossing around data into cells at random. This is done to prevent the same area of memory from being constantly written to. The cells of solid state memory, unlike a hard disk, can only sustain so many write functions before those cells crap out. By randomly spreading around where data is written you can get more miles overall from a collection of solid state memory cells, longer product life. So even if you wipe a SSD and re-write the data back to it, you get data that is still scrambled and spread around in memory.

    Now, the SSD must keep track of where the wear-leveling scheme wrote data, what cells are in use and what cells are available for writing to in the future. For simplicity, think of it as a look-up table. That LUT is external to the solid state memory cells. To corrupt a SSD you need only corrupt the LUT. Likewise, to "crack" a secured SSD, you need only monitor the way the LUT is managed to determine how the memory cells are being managed. This is why SSD security is a point of interest to folks wanting to protect data. They have a new set of issues to deal with that did not exist with HDDs.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Why not a hybrid drive? IOW say a 32 Gig SSD coupled to a 1TB spinner -- the 32 G like a really big uber-speed buffer, the spinner for mass storage. Seems to me it would work, solve the issue above and provide the best of both worlds...
    Jack
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  29. #29
    meilicke
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Big array manufacturers (Sun with their 7400 line, and EMC) are doing just that Jack. I bet the drive manufactures will come out with something like what you are suggesting. Just a matter of time.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Really-really big array vendors also do that with gobs (1 TB or more) of battery backed up ram and a write-back algorithm that works on a least-recently-written basis.
    As the stuff gets smaller and volume potential increases, it just continues to trickle down. SSD in big systems still has a lifetime issue for high-utilization buffers.

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Say hello to Cray super computers. ;-)

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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    And unfortunately, the only one that's SATA 2, the X25E, is only 32 Gigs. (And never mind it also costs $350!) The X25M's are SATA 1
    This is in error. The X25M and X18M are both SATA 2, and can transfer at up to 3 Gbps (Though drive performance is 250MB read and 70MB write max).
    http://download.intel.com/design/fla...-datasheet.pdf

    Its quite possible the X25E writes are much faster, but they're out of my pricepoint so I haven't looked at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Jack
    do you know which 256Gb SSD Apple are currently offering on the new 17"mbp?
    Apple uses (based on reports from last fall) Samsung MLC models.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    This one also seems very fast but is MLC
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820161317
    Looking at the generic MLC drives out there -- and I did a lot before buying the Intel-- I found a couple problems-- many of them reported performance that wasn't realistic, and many of them used a particular controller chip that was prone to fail after a couple months. They also use the same or similar internals and sell them under a variety of brand names, and sometimes one brand would use one internals and then change internals without changing model number or marketing brand.

    Intel's drives are engineered by intel, have a safety margin, and are high performance, and are pretty reliable. They're also more expensive but not too expensive-- so just right for me.

    The controller chip issue though was a real scare point for the generics- loss of that chip meant loss of your data, without a lot of expense going in and getting the data out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    Ok, good choice, now how do you secure that SSD? I'm using TrueCrypt for all of my HDD data,
    I'm guessing somewhere embedded in a SSD is an external library of what cells to write to, which ones not to write to, which ones are in use. Therein is the security vulnerability of SSDs
    Where's the vulnerability? IF the data is encrypted, then a map of which cells are in use is only a map to encrypted data.

  33. #33
    Member LizaWitz's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisDauer View Post
    Frankly, arstechnica is a disreputable site. One of the downsides of the way the internet has developed is that a site like that gets more authority attached to it than a random person posting on a forum, even though I am more conversant in the technologies in question than anyone who works for that site (and I've seen a lot of totally made up BS on that site over the years.) On the internet, its easy to post an article making a claim, and before anyone has a chance to refute it, it spreads to a hundred or so blogs and becomes "truth" in the mind of readers.

    Anyway, their claim hasn't been backed up, intel wasn't able to reproduce it, and the issue certainly hasn't affected me, and I do move a lot of video data around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    Likewise, to "crack" a secured SSD, you need only monitor the way the LUT is managed to determine how the memory cells are being managed. This is why SSD security is a point of interest to folks wanting to protect data. They have a new set of issues to deal with that did not exist with HDDs.
    Maybe you're assuming the drive is doing the actual encryption? I don't see how a writing pattern will allow one to break encryption. I'm not saying its not possible, but I think you might be assuming a different encryption scheme than I am.

    For FileVault under leopard, the virtual drive is made up of hundreds of 8MB files that are written out and updated as data in the partition changes. These may be spread all over the drive, and maybe some of them are written more than others. By watching that pattern, a cracker could find the data that changes most often, but that wouldn't give you a clue to the key.

    Could you explain how this compromise works?

  34. #34
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by LizaWitz View Post
    ...Where's the vulnerability? IF the data is encrypted, then a map of which cells are in use is only a map to encrypted data.
    Think of it as putting your valuables into a safe. Cracking the safe is one issue, but first you have to find it. Obscuring the safe is part of the security scheme.

    Wear-Leveling


    Some storage devices (e.g., some USB flash drives) and some file systems utilize so-called wear-leveling mechanisms to extend the lifetime of the storage device or medium. These mechanisms ensure that even if an application repeatedly writes data to the same logical sector, the data is distributed evenly across the medium (logical sectors are remapped to different physical sectors). Therefore, multiple "versions" of a single sector may be available to an attacker. This may have various security implications. For instance, when you change a volume password/keyfile(s), the volume header is, under normal conditions, overwritten with a re-encrypted version of the header. However, when the volume resides on a device that utilizes a wear-leveling mechanism, TrueCrypt cannot ensure that the older header is really overwritten. If an adversary found the old volume header (which was to be overwritten) on the device, he could use it to mount the volume using an old compromised password (and/or using compromised keyfiles that were necessary to mount the volume before the volume header was re-encrypted). Due to security reasons, we recommend that TrueCrypt volumes are not created on devices (or in file systems) that utilize a wear-leveling mechanism. If you decide not to follow this recommendation and you intend to use system encryption when the system drive utilizes wear-leveling mechanisms, make sure the system partition/drive does not contain any sensitive data before you fully encrypt it (TrueCrypt cannot reliably perform secure in-place encryption of existing data on such a drive; however, after the system partition/drive has been fully encrypted, any new data that will be saved to it will be reliably encrypted on the fly). To find out whether a device utilizes a wear-leveling mechanism, please refer to documentation supplied with the device or contact the vendor/manufacturer.


    http://www.truecrypt.org/

  35. #35
    DougDolde
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Guy,
    . I use a LaCie rugged 500GB firewire 800 drive for storage and cache of photos on the road.
    -Brad
    Does the LaCie drive need the extra USB power cord on your MacBook Pro or is the basic USB 2.0 port power sufficient to run it?

  36. #36
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Does the LaCie drive need the extra USB power cord on your MacBook Pro or is the basic USB 2.0 port power sufficient to run it?

    Does not answer your question but I've noticed external drives that use a laptop sized HDD are powered by the USB port, external drives that use the larger PC tower size HDDs depend on an external power supply.

  37. #37
    Member LizaWitz's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxide Blu View Post
    For instance, when you change a volume password/keyfile(s), the volume header is, under normal conditions, overwritten with a re-encrypted version of the header. However, when the volume resides on a device that utilizes a wear-leveling mechanism, TrueCrypt cannot ensure that the older header is really overwritten. If an adversary found the old volume header (which was to be overwritten) on the device, he could use it to mount the volume using an old compromised password (and/or using compromised keyfiles that were necessary to mount the volume before the volume header was re-encrypted).
    Whoops, that's a hole in truecrypt, and good to know about. To exploit it, you would have had to have a keyfile that was stored in the clear (which it sounds like is part of the password changing process in truecrypt) or have had a previous password compromised.

    I'm glad they are paranoid and honest enough to talk about that. Seems the issue is part of the fact that truecrypt is an application rather than built into the os. I believe the way Mac OS X handles this and filevault means this isn't an issue for mac users. There's no unencrypted keyfile on the disk ever, even if you change a volumes password... and a compromised password wouldn't be sufficient to read data because the key would have changed.

    At any rate, the easiest way to breach any of these security schemes is to hit the person who knows the password upside the head with a wrench (or something else painful) until they give you the password.

  38. #38
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by LizaWitz View Post
    At any rate, the easiest way to breach any of these security schemes is to hit the person who knows the password upside the head with a wrench (or something else painful) until they give you the password.

    That is why TrueCrypt was designed with plausible deniability; an invisible encrypted volume within an invisible encrypted volume; unrelated, separate passwords. Specifically designed for the senario you mentioned.

    Nothing about TrueCrypt ever acknowledges there is even a TrueCrypt volume on the drive, unless/until you enter a valid password. There is no way anyone can look at a HDD and know whether or not there is a TrueCrypt volume on it.

  39. #39
    Workshop Member ChrisDauer's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    For those of us looking for speed:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96dWO...657&feature=iv

    At about 1:40 or so; the speed tests start and that's when things get interesting.

  40. #40
    DougDolde
    Guest

    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Sanddisk has a new line of SSDs coming out up to 240 GB ($499 msrp). I read that they are equivalent in speed to a 40,000 rpm spinning disk type drive.

    I am going to hold off on drives for my new Mac Pro until I can get these. Likely higher capacities will be forthcoming as well. A striped pair of these would be the bees knees for a boot drive. Then there is the option of using them for data as well. Ultra reliable, supposedly with something like 100 year MTBF.

    http://gizmodo.com/5126848/sandisks-...aking-the-bank

  41. #41
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Sanddisk has a new line of SSDs coming out up to 240 GB ($499 msrp). I read that they are equivalent in speed to a 40,000 rpm spinning disk type drive.

    I am going to hold off on drives for my new Mac Pro until I can get these. Likely higher capacities will be forthcoming as well. A striped pair of these would be the bees knees for a boot drive. Then there is the option of using them for data as well. Ultra reliable, supposedly with something like 100 year MTBF.

    http://gizmodo.com/5126848/sandisks-...aking-the-bank
    Something I am still trying to resolve in some ways. I think our conventional thinking about bigger SSDs probably comes from our HDD carryovers. If there are not spinning platters, nor a faster/slower sector map, why is there a need for really larger SSDs if they are only going to be striped and used as boot drive for the OS and to house applications? Do many folks run with 480GBs of OS an apps? Now, if one is also going to use them as fast data drives too, beyond just the OS, apps and maybe scratch, then I understand bigger is needed. It would seem that if these drives are that fast, a better option may be to mirror them instead of striping them, thus getting the benefit of instant back-up for whatever you were needing in case of a crash. In that case, a lot bigger would be better, if it retains the speeds.

    In something like a Mac Pro, where you have some serious internal capacity available, I would thing filling bays with 10k rpm drives would do quite well, and at a lot less cost, plus hold a lot more data. Or striped 1TB 7200rpm drives would go a long way for very fast storage also.

    I get the need for bigger SSDs for use in something like notebooks, where storage is limited, but not sure I see all that much benefit in big boxes where you have tons of space and fire-breathing capabilities on other devices that are going to be significantly cheaper. (Sorry, must be my recession frugality/practicality taking over or something right now.)

    LJ

  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    2 SSD results running in Raid 0 MPB 2.93 with 6gb of Ram 15 inch unit BUT i have some cleanup issues still with this new laptop. Have to work on this some more but preliminary results. Oh 2 Intel 80gb XM-25 units

    Results 242.46
    System Info
    Xbench Version 1.3
    System Version 10.5.6 (9G2133)
    Physical RAM 6144 MB
    Model MacBookPro5,1
    Drive Type Guys Master Hard Drive
    CPU Test 197.27
    GCD Loop 341.25 17.99 Mops/sec
    Floating Point Basic 166.26 3.95 Gflop/sec
    vecLib FFT 138.08 4.56 Gflop/sec
    Floating Point Library 244.53 42.58 Mops/sec
    Thread Test 356.36
    Computation 432.71 8.77 Mops/sec, 4 threads
    Lock Contention 302.91 13.03 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
    Memory Test 190.52
    System 229.81
    Allocate 295.33 1.08 Malloc/sec
    Fill 193.95 9430.13 MB/sec
    Copy 221.63 4577.76 MB/sec
    Stream 162.71
    Copy 152.26 3144.97 MB/sec
    Scale 157.78 3259.69 MB/sec
    Add 172.40 3672.50 MB/sec
    Triad 170.11 3639.11 MB/sec
    Quartz Graphics Test 244.39
    Line 226.84 15.10 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
    Rectangle 292.37 87.29 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
    Circle 242.82 19.79 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
    Bezier 237.84 6.00 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
    Text 232.16 14.52 Kchars/sec
    OpenGL Graphics Test 188.89
    Spinning Squares 188.89 239.62 frames/sec
    User Interface Test 391.46
    Elements 391.46 1.80 Krefresh/sec
    Disk Test 262.69
    Sequential 165.56
    Uncached Write 255.90 157.12 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Write 130.50 73.84 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Uncached Read 91.11 26.66 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Read 619.42 311.32 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Random 635.52
    Uncached Write 545.02 57.70 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Write 342.81 109.75 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Uncached Read 1224.63 8.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Read 1378.03 255.70 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  43. #43
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    I stopped for awhile want to make sure i have all my data on a Drobo before more testing. Had a bad firewire cable and there is a glitch in these new MPB with a screen flicker . I think Apple has a update for the 17 and waiting for one with the 15 inch. I am hooked up to a 30 inch display and seems any program I am in I can get this random flicker , my thoughts are the video card. Also had booting issues with the Firewire and maybe to many USB going on , so I have a powered USB hub now and with the new Firewire cable seem to be booting okay. Luckily I am smart enough to figure out this stuff, feel sorry for new folks that are unsure of themselves dealing with some issues. Plus i have Lloyd , Jack and Bob and if i can't get a answer from those guy's there is no answer. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  44. #44
    DougDolde
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Guy if you have the new 15" MBP they will take 8 GB ram.

  45. #45
    DougDolde
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    I ran X Bench on my 2.2Ghz MacBook Pro (Santa Rosawith 6 gb ram and a dumpy FUJITSU MHW2120BH 120 GB hard drive (stock). Depressing and pathetic numbers echo my frustration trying to use this machine. I ordered a single quad 2.66 Mac Pro (Nehalem) today and 16 GB ram from OWC, just can't take it any longer.

    Disk Test 34.80
    Sequential 50.63
    Uncached Write 50.63 31.09 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Write 50.58 28.62 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Uncached Read 51.88 15.18 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Read 57.42 28.86 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Random 26.03
    Uncached Write 9.33 0.99 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Write 55.37 17.73 MB/sec [256K blocks]
    Uncached Read 62.24 0.44 MB/sec [4K blocks]
    Uncached Read 81.03 15.54 MB/sec [256K blocks]

  46. #46
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: SSD Drives VS 7200 rpm drives

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Guy if you have the new 15" MBP they will take 8 GB ram.
    Yes it seems this maybe true. OWC is just getting these new books in to test so just waiting for results. But on a couple forums it seems it is working. Like to see the numbers on improvement though from 6gb. The 4gb chip is 350 dollars or so. This thing is running pretty darn fast just want to make sure it's cleaned out I migrated over and it may have picked up some old Ilife crap
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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