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The new MBP, this sums it up

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
https://www.slrlounge.com/an-open-letter-to-apple-from-the-actual-working-pros/

I'm very happy with my 2 year old MBP 15" Retina. Unfortunately, any of the new models seem to be downgrades from my existing computer. None of my external devices can be connected, and new devices don't even exist in some cases. All this for a computer that is a few grams lighter, a couple of mm thinner, but still doesn't have a matt screen. 2TB of SSD is cool of course, but I would rather be able to connect my 10TB of external disks and the backups of those disks.
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
Yea Apple seems to be losing it for "Pro" models.

2 TB SSD but only 16GB ram

Mac Pro still has no 2 TB SSD option
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The math is not good on it. Maxed out but still short of 32gb of ram is 3500. Add the dock from OWC another 279. Plus let's not forget Uncle Sam . Total 4200. My MBP is a late 2013 model but m track pad is cracked. I thought about just updating to a late 2015 which has a faster processor and better graphics. Net net net I'm still looking at about 1k maybe a little more. It's a thought. From what I read the next Intel processor which will be mid 2017 can go 32 of ram. So like to hold out for that. I'm not in a hurry to do either though so may wait it out. But I agree they made a radical switch to new ports that is forcing everyone to switch as well and even all the dongles needed is a mess of cables unless you buy a dock. I'm thinking it's wise to pass on this version.

They need to realize that a Pro model the more important aspects are speed and functionality not being ultra thin or have amazing battery life. Most of us are plugged in and using a second monitor so battery means little and so does being ultra thin. The current model is really perfect for power users with all its current ports. Sure be nice to have the new C port for big externals for the speed. Really need to come out with 2 or 3 models of the 15.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I do not agree ... the next Intel processor will probably arrive in 2019 ... three year cycle for the MBP.

The Apple demo of the MBP with the power function strip was pretty compelling ... I would like to see that as an
add-on to a desktop keyboard.

And I just recommended the new MBP to a friend who lost most of his pictures ... he is a classical cellist who did
not backup things when he upgraded his PC notebook to Windows 10. He may get them back ... on the D drive
and just "disappeared" ... probably still there just not seen. He needs to do LR PS and Logic and the ability to
have the function strip change with the program would be ideal.

His comment was that they are expensive but his 4 year old iPad was so good that he saw no reason to upgrade. He
thought their products are so good no one makes the transition to a new device until they get bored with the old one.

And finally 4 ports any of which will take power and transmit data ... memory @ 3Gb/sec and SSD to 2 TB.

Forgive the question but other than income tax who would pay US. BH Photo ships overnight for next to nothing and
no sales tax.

Now I have a Mac Pro Tower with 4 internal drives with 12 Tb SSD @ 750 GB and PCIE memory card @ 480 GB and two externals with 16 Tb ... 64 GB internal memory ... GTX Titan video driving
a Dell 5K monitor. Still think the new 15 MBP with 2 TB lower faster memory and the best graphics may come close to meeting my present needs ... just drop all the internals into an external box
as a RAID and use the OWC dock to keep it all connected.

MacOS Sierra transition has been seamless and I would rather have a system that has support at the hardware level from Adobe, Logic, Blackmagic, Apogee.

May pay a bit more but it is still less than a decent lens.

JM not so humble O .... :ROTFL:

Bob
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
B&H does not normally sell a upgraded processor, 1TB drive and the upgraded graphics card. These are are all custom built order. At least not now
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Bob. I did not see that so yes worth the tax savings which is well over 300 dollars. I'm okay with just 1Tb so total is 3500.00 which is what I have today is 1Tb and it's very fast. So with a dock it's under 4K out the door. Be a nice Section 179 purchase. Lol
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Not all memory is made the same. The new RAM chips are much faster than the old ones.

HD could be a limit for some but consider the Type C USB and the new Samsung SSDs.

The screen is just awesome in just about every respect. :thumbs:

Expensive but justifiable.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Only now did I notice that they've removed the entire row of function keys, including the Esc and power buttons. Both of them are rather essential buttons in my view, the Esc because it closes pop-up windows on the net, and the power button because it's sometimes the only way to turn off the computer if it hangs, and Apple computers do hang occasionally.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I just left the Apple Store. I ordered the 15 inch 2.9/16gb/1 Tb/high end graphic card 460. My wallet is stinging badly

Nice tax break. Lol
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Got a business discount so it equals out ptretty much but I did not see my model in stock. I'll look again
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Only now did I notice that they've removed the entire row of function keys, including the Esc and power buttons. Both of them are rather essential buttons in my view, the Esc because it closes pop-up windows on the net, and the power button because it's sometimes the only way to turn off the computer if it hangs, and Apple computers do hang occasionally.
Of course, their functions are transferred to other keys, Jorgen. The Apple engineers are not stupid, as you seem to suggest they are. Which other keys ... I don't know, I don't have one of the new computers either. Personally, I almost never touch the ESC key and use the Power button almost exclusively to turn my system on.

You do look to find some fault with every new product on the market that you might have an interest in, don't you? :)

I bought my new MacBook Air 13" just a month before the new MBP announcements. If I'd known they were going to be available for ordering before I left the company, I'd have ordered one of the new MBPs instead, but I only rarely need a full-function laptop anymore and wanted one just for the occasional tethering needs (so much easier to use a laptop than a desktop ...).

G
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yea my issue is im mobile a lot where shooting some jobs the client wants them now. The other issue is speed as twice a year I'm shooting close to 15k Raws in 4 days and they get uploaded to SmugMug for sale. So I need a race horse with processing them to size. But for most folks what I ordered is overkill and lets face it this goes down as a section 179 for a business owner.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Of course, their functions are transferred to other keys, Jorgen. The Apple engineers are not stupid, as you seem to suggest they are. Which other keys ... I don't know, I don't have one of the new computers either. Personally, I almost never touch the ESC key and use the Power button almost exclusively to turn my system on.

You do look to find some fault with every new product on the market that you might have an interest in, don't you? :)

I bought my new MacBook Air 13" just a month before the new MBP announcements. If I'd known they were going to be available for ordering before I left the company, I'd have ordered one of the new MBPs instead, but I only rarely need a full-function laptop anymore and wanted one just for the occasional tethering needs (so much easier to use a laptop than a desktop ...).

G
The Esc key is very convenient when surfing the internet, particularly to get out of slide shows, pop-ups etc. Because it's physical and at the top left corner, it's easy to hit without looking at the keyboard. I see that it can be defined as a "soft key" on that new, fancy strip that has replaced the row of function keys, but that is not the same, since it won't be possible to click it without looking and since won't always be there.

But hey, I'm still using a Blackberry with a physical keyboard (changed from a smartphone earlier this year), so I'm probably the weirdo here. I do like physical buttons, and the most important reason to remove them is that they add cost to the device.

Edit:
The issue for me is that Apple has taken away features that I use on a daily basis. If the changes had been unavoidable or represented major improvements, it would have been understandable. Unfortunately, I get a strong feeling that Apple is doing this to look different from the competition and to push new hardware. If the new models had represented a major technological breakthrough and it was still possible to get computers from Apple with the old connection and keyboard, it would all have been fine. But what they have presented are new models that have most of the same limitations as the old ones (like 16GB RAM), but that are incompatible with external gear that most users own and that forces many to change their way of working.

Most suppliers of electronic gear, not least camera manufacturers, keep older technology alive long after the new one has been launched, since this is secure a way to keep customers. I've been a happy Mac user for more than 20 years, and this is the first time that I've looked seriously into what the competition has to offer. When I started to use Apple computers, they were the preferred tools for creative professionals worldwide. That is a market that Apple clearly doesn't seem to target anymore.
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
The Esc key is very convenient when surfing the internet, particularly to get out of slide shows, pop-ups etc. Because it's physical and at the top left corner, it's easy to hit without looking at the keyboard. I see that it can be defined as a "soft key" on that new, fancy strip that has replaced the row of function keys, but that is not the same, since it won't be possible to click it without looking and since won't always be there.

But hey, I'm still using a Blackberry with a physical keyboard (changed from a smartphone earlier this year), so I'm probably the weirdo here. I do like physical buttons, and the most important reason to remove them is that they add cost to the device.
Touch Bar adds FAR more cost to the device. It's considered a better alternative, the majority of users see the function key row as mostly irrelevant. That's why by default the buttons there are mapped to 'more useful' dedicated functions, that most people actually use.

Touch Bar is a design and functional element that's getting a lot of very positive reviews, except from you and a handful of other people. What's a manufacturer to do? They do offer both ... :)

G
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Touch Bar adds FAR more cost to the device. It's considered a better alternative, the majority of users see the function key row as mostly irrelevant. That's why by default the buttons there are mapped to 'more useful' dedicated functions, that most people actually use.

Touch Bar is a design and functional element that's getting a lot of very positive reviews, except from you and a handful of other people. What's a manufacturer to do? They do offer both ... :)

G
They only offer traditional keys on the cheapest models that can not be specified with 2TB SSD (1TB maximum), have only 2 USB/Thunderbolt 2 ports and an inferior graphics card that seems to work with shared RAM. I currently use a Mac (the mid 2014 top model) that is better specified than that, has 2 USB ports, 2 Thunderbolt ports, the great magnetic power adapter connection and an SD slot. For this Mac, I also have 3 power adapters (one for home, one for the office and one in my travel bag), neither of which will work on a new one, regardless of which model I choose. In a world where finally most mobile phones (except iPhone) can use the same USB power adapter, that's a total anti-environmental policy from Apple, as is the change of physical interface.

If this had been something that happened once every ten years with Apple, it would have been acceptable, but it's happening with increasingly short intervals. Thunderbolt was something relatively new when I bought the current model 2 years ago, replacing Firewire that was the fashionable interface on the the one before that.

If these computers were built to last, this wouldn't be a problem, but on my current one, one speaker is making strange, unpleasant noises, the battery lasts for maximum 2 hours and the rubber around the screen has started to disintegrate. It will be in for a service shortly, which will probably cost a lot of money in itself, but even after that, I don't see it lasting for more than maximum a couple of more years, probably shorter.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Yes, I agree with Jorgen on this one. I have used Macs since 2002 or so, and this is the first time since then that I am seriously looking at PCs. I still may wind up with the Macbook Pro to replace my original retina Macbook Pro. The new version takes away a lot of utility that I really do use (USB ports, mag safe, HDMI, SD slot, Thunderbolt connectors) and it does not seem to add so much. I agree with a lot of what is written in the open letter. I run a Mac Pro at my studio and use thunderbolt raid arrays, and I use USB 3 and thunderbolt RAID's on my laptop on a regular basis as well. I use the SD card reader a lot, as well as the HDMI port for connecting to my TV and to projectors etc. We lose all of this for four very good connectors which unfortunately do not have any market penetration yet. Couldn't they just give us 2 USB 3.1 C ports on one side, and the SD card reader, 1 USB-3 and HDMI on the other? I am sure if they did that, hardly anyone would be complaining.

Meanwhile, the stuff going on in the Windows laptop world is really interesting. For example, the Lenovo X1 Yoga has a great keyboard, Wacom stylus, OLED touch screen with Adobe RGB gamut, similar processors and memory configurations in an even lighter package which also turns into a tablet. The Surface Book as well has a higher resolution screen which is said to be superb, stronger graphics performance arguably a better keyboard (now that Mac is ditching a normal keyboard for the misery of the Macbook style). It also literally splits into two and becomes a super powerful tablet running a full OS, unlike the largely crippled iOS versions that Apple offers. While the Surface Book is still quite expensive, the X1 is over a thousand dollars cheaper than a similarly spec'ed Macbook Pro.

Don't get me wrong, I like my current Macbook Pro a lot, but I feel like the new one is just becoming a worse and worse proposition these days if you are mostly focused on professional creative arts use. MacOS and Windows are not so terribly far apart these days as they used to be, and Mac is increasingly the OS that forces you to put up with a lot of B.S. (try the new safari! dialogs asking you to install things now or remind you later, with no option to dismiss. Endlessly pushing iCloud, iTunes, Photos, Safari, Siri, Notification Center, Continuity etc, default settings that hide the Library, prevent opening third party apps and so on). I don't want to talk to my computer until it looks like Alicia Vikander.

The programs that I use on a regular basis are mostly universal:
the Adobe Suite, Chrome, Davinci Resolve, Color Navigator, i1 Profiler, Skype, VLC and so on. I just don't see why I should continue to pay more to get less these days...it seems to me that Microsoft and other manufacturers are paying more attention to creatives these days than Apple. If you think the Macbook Pro was bad, the Mac Pro has not been updated since the beginning, and even then it was quite annoying as a Pro box. All of a sudden I had a million cables and external boxes all over the place instead of an orderly desk area! It works quite well, but the casing itself is a huge pain as compared to the older version.

I don't want to be a curmudgeon before I am even 40...I just wish Apple would take the pro users into account. I don't think they will, however, which is why I am looking so seriously again at Windows.
 
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