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The new MBP, this sums it up

Godfrey

Well-known member
It's not about the price of the adapters and not about weight, it's about using equipment that are built to industry standards, and that will work with those standards with a minimum of fuzz. Apple has chosen to replace industry standard interfaces with something that will probably be the standard in the future (which they also said Thunderbolt would be and Firewire and SCSI, but none of those caught on outside the Apple universe). I travel to 4-5 countries on a regular basis and quite a few others occasionally. Adapters for mains plugs already represent a hassle, and although they mostly work properly, there are often situations where they represent a problem due to size or lack of reliability.

Having a bag full of adapters means one possible problem for each adapter. It's fine if you travel to places where adapters can easily be replaced, but even in Bangkok, USB-C adapters are difficult to find. At smaller places in Asia you can mostly forget about it. Apple stores around here sell what most people buy; the latest budget models of the most popular devices and iPhone covers in pink or gold. If you are lucky, the girl behind the counter knows how to use other applications than FB and Line, but don't count on it. An Apple device is something people here buy to show that they can afford it. They are already lining up for the iPhone 9 or 10 or whatever.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/gad...b-c-accessories-in-bangkok#.WHD2xenTakk.gmail
My 'bag full of adapters' has NEVER, in 25 years of hard use, caused any problems whatsoever in any country I've been to and used it. These include: USA, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Yugoslavia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa, American Samoa, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, India, and Egypt. I've never been to any computer or equipment oriented store when on travel ... everything I carried along has always worked 100% perfectly.

Your concerns are FUD and myth. EVERY international presenter I know (and I at least used to know a lot of them) does the same as I have done.

(And ... Looking at that list, gods I'm happy I'm retired now... :)

Apple has established a new standard with USB-C, as they have done so many times before. Whether it takes off or not is up to the future to decide. It's worth remembering that USB was created by Intel and they begged Microsoft and the PC/Windows computer manufacturers to incorporate the drivers and ports into their machines for a decade with no response. Apple was the first company to incorporate it—take the leap as it were—as the standard and ONLY serial hardware/protocol access port in the iMac in 1998-1999 ... and it has since become a worldwide success and standard. Intel publicly sent Apple a thank you note for being the first to validate their work and establish it as a success and a standard. All the other manufacturers and Microsoft adopted it afterwards...

Whining about Apple technology gets you nowhere. If you don't like it, buy what you find more suitable, use it, and move on. There's absolutely no point to complaining about it. Technology changes constantly in this day and age. If you don't want to keep up with it, get out of the game and do something else.

G

"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
My 'bag full of adapters' has NEVER, in 25 years of hard use, caused any problems whatsoever in any country I've been to and used it. These include: USA, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Yugoslavia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa, American Samoa, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, India, and Egypt. I've never been to any computer or equipment oriented store when on travel ... everything I carried along has always worked 100% perfectly.

Your concerns are FUD and myth. EVERY international presenter I know (and I at least used to know a lot of them) does the same as I have done.

(And ... Looking at that list, gods I'm happy I'm retired now... :)

Apple has established a new standard with USB-C, as they have done so many times before. Whether it takes off or not is up to the future to decide. It's worth remembering that USB was created by Intel and they begged Microsoft and the PC/Windows computer manufacturers to incorporate the drivers and ports into their machines for a decade with no response. Apple was the first company to incorporate it—take the leap as it were—as the standard and ONLY serial hardware/protocol access port in the iMac in 1998-1999 ... and it has since become a worldwide success and standard. Intel publicly sent Apple a thank you note for being the first to validate their work and establish it as a success and a standard. All the other manufacturers and Microsoft adopted it afterwards...

Whining about Apple technology gets you nowhere. If you don't like it, buy what you find more suitable, use it, and move on. There's absolutely no point to complaining about it. Technology changes constantly in this day and age. If you don't want to keep up with it, get out of the game and do something else.

G

"Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."
I am trying other ways, ordering a Chinese tablet now, with two USB ports, for travel. They are all made in China anyway, so no reason to pay western companies extra for the fancy label.

What Apple has done doesn't change the fact that HDMI is the standard for more or less all TV's and projectors on the market. Even if manufacturers of those devices should start changing to USB-C from tomorrow, a majority of devices around will still have HDMI for years to come. Most computer manufacturer know this and are still making laptop computers that incorporate this vital contact. This is as if Nikon or another camera manufacturers launched a camera where existing lenses could only be used with an adapter. But they don't. Nikon's lens mount is by no means perfect, but they stick to it because they know how important that is to their market share. And when they launched the D5 accepting the new QXD cards, they also offered a version accepting the old CF cards because they know photographers have stacks of them. Canon likewise, and Nikon with the D810, have made pro bodies with SD and CF card slot for years to give customers options.

I don't know what is behind Apple's decision, a decision that breaks fundamentally with earlier practices. What I do know is that several of my friends skipped the 1-USB-C-port MacBook and bought the older Air instead, mostly because they didn't want to deal with converters and obviously didn't want to scrap all external devices. It's impractical, expensive and it's a waste of resources. I've been a Mac user for 20 years, and I was all in favour of removing the floppy drive, the CD/DVD-drive and the Ethernet contact because those features were already becoming obsolete. USB 3 however is in no way obsolete, although that seems to be what Apple is aiming to achieve. It makes me angry because my favourite computers are becoming less functional. The company I work for, where several colleagues have changed to Mac the last few years, is certainly not going to pay for upgrades to new MacBooks that have become 30-50% more expensive and then in addition have to change hubs, disks and other devices in spite of the "old" ones working perfectly. No, we will not base our work on converters. They will be forgotten in the office, at home and in hotel rooms. Most of our external devices will plug into any Windows PC anyway. That is what people used before, and that is what they will go back to.

The irony of it all is that Apple for years have been eliminating things, convincing users that computing should be simple, with fewer cables and external devices. Now, they try to convince us that carrying a bunch of converters is the ideal solution, and the SD card reader that they obsoleted when introducing the SD slot to their computers has suddenly become a necessity again. Less cables and stuff was one of the reasons why I changed to Mac 20 years ago. More converters might change me back. I'll see when the Macbook is due for upgrade, but alternative solutions have already been ordered for testing, partly because of this and partly because the iPad Pro lacks the option of physical connections and memory expansion.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Change is the price of innovation.

Some of 'us' do know why they moved to USB-C on these machines, and the reasons are both simple and compelling. But you don't want to hear it, you just want to complain. You, now using the standards that Apple helped innovate into the workplace, simply don't want to hear of further change and project your interpretation of what Apple has been doing and call it wrong. There's no point to further debate—you don't want to discuss or compromise, you want to complain.

So keep complaining while "the rest of us" just get on with using our systems, adapting to change as it occurs, and picking the systems that work best for us.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread now.

G
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Change is the price of innovation.

Some of 'us' do know why they moved to USB-C on these machines, and the reasons are both simple and compelling. But you don't want to hear it, you just want to complain. You, now using the standards that Apple helped innovate into the workplace, simply don't want to hear of further change and project your interpretation of what Apple has been doing and call it wrong. There's no point to further debate—you don't want to discuss or compromise, you want to complain.

So keep complaining while "the rest of us" just get on with using our systems, adapting to change as it occurs, and picking the systems that work best for us.

I'm unsubscribing from this thread now.

G
Wrong. I simply don't want to spend money on something with less functionality than what I have, and I don't want to pay for and carry lots of stuff that I haven't needed before, stuff that doesn't add a single bit of functionality compared to my current MacBook. I'm sure USB-C is great, but I live in a world of USB 3 and HDMI. And where are those compelling reasons to like USB-C? I know it's faster, but I don't need that speed. Not now anyway. Anything else?

Some people are making money out of this though:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperdrivetm-compact-thunderbolt-3-usb-c-hub-for-m
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
All you need are maybe a couple of these and will work with all your USB A accessories

https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-USB-C-...332397&sr=8-3&keywords=USB+a+to+USB+C+adapter

For HDMI i use this but many others out there


https://www.amazon.com/Apple-USB-C-...1484332534&sr=8-1&keywords=apple+usb+c+dongle

It has a USB A and a USB C port as well as a HDMI. Works great

Another one rated good is this HDMI only

https://www.amazon.com/CableCreatio...598&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=usb+c+to+hdmi&psc=1

Yes a couple extra dollars but honestly Apple never made a industry standard that was in the PC market. Firewire 400, 800 and Thunderbolt where all mostly used by Mac and not PC. USB A and now USB-C are industry standards used by both Mac and PC. Actually this is one of the few times Apple went industry standard USB -C which granted is only on some PCs but this is growing fast and the next technology. We had all kinds of stuff that are all extinct now. USB-C is even on phones and some tablets
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
So my reality is really one extra adapter that i did not have

My 4 ports are

1 Power would have that anyway
2 T3 again that is always was the case
3 My Apple HDMI 3 way cable above . I have the Ethernet adapter plus 3 USB port adapter connected to it
4 I have a Pegasus R4 raid drive which has a T2 connection so I added the T2 to USB-c adapter. My monitor goes into the Pegasus than out from there to computer. I always had this connection but I did need the T2 to USB 3 adapter. I think Apple is the only one that works. 20 dollars

For SD i will just take off the T3 when uploading Raws.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The problem, Guy, is that although all these solutions will work, each of them will still represent a hassle. Most people dislike converters, particularly Apple users, since they represent the opposite of the simplicity that Apple has been standing for.

- If the transition to USB-C had brought an immediate advantage, it would be another situation, but it doesn't. It brings an immediate disadvantage.

- If other kinds of Apple devices would accept USB-C, it would also be another situation, but neither iPhones nor iPads accept any kind of USB. There's no such thing as a unified Apple universe, and as opposed to their main competitor MS, Apple run a different OS on tablets and laptops. There's little compatibility in the Apple world.

- Before USB 3, Firewire and Thunderbolt made sense because USB 1 and 2 were so slow, but few users need a faster connection than USB 3. It can be convenient sometimes, but the convenience comes at a cost.

- Many users have bad experiences with converters. My Coolscan 2000 became obsolete when Apple discontinued SCSI and I couldn't find a SCSI adapter that worked satisfactory with the scanner. So I ended up with a good, expensive but useless scanner and several useless adapters, none of them cheap.

Part of Apple's strength has been their willingness to offer several connection solutions with each computer to cater for all customer needs. This seems to have changed. Two computer families, this one and the "one-USB-C-MacBook" have been launched with nothing but USB-C. For me, and I know for many other users, a computer isn't fully functional if existing devices cannot be connected without using adapters. Users want simplicity, not complexity, integrity, not exclusivity and fragmentation.

Again, I'm sure that USB-C is the interface of the future, but I want choice. Apple doesn't give me one. Other suppliers do, and some are still sticking to "good old" USB 3 only. All my devices will plug straight into those computers, and shops are full of more devices that will. If many enough MacBook users make the choice to leave, Apple will become the company that many of us feared it would become: A supplier of pink iPhones. That would be a sad development. It was once a great company.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I've noticed the decline in Apple's computer product and software product for years through gritted teeth. With all its problems though - I think the photo/video superiority of the mac in terms of user experience if nothing else - is still better, still I dont need to upgrade into this particular offering - no SD card reader/no USB port? really I mean really???? wtf

For making money my businesses run on PC's - of course.
 

Elliot

Active member
I can understand the frustration of multiple adapters, although there are several clever combinations that can solve most people's needs. I basically agree that Apple's focus on being thin is obsessive, and would rather have a bit fatter notebook with a bit more weight and some more ports.

However, my Android Nexus 5X phone and MacBook 12" both use USB-C, and they quick charge, which is quite convenient. When I got the Android phone, I also got a USB-C to USB-A cable, so that one can utilize the wider world with ease. When I got the MacBook, I got an adapter with three ports, and that has served most of my needs.

Now, the MacBook only has a single port and I mostly worry about its longevity, but I love the fact that it weighs just 2 pounds with a wonderful 16x10 display and the same Apple quality together with the Mac OS system. Yes, I would use a SD card slot, and another USB slot, but this just plain works, and my needs are limited.

I like what a lot of other manufacturers do with their laptops, too, but after using Macs for more than 20 years, I simply prefer its environment. I still default to Aperture, and I only wish they kept developing it.
 

sc_john

Active member
After debating for quite a while whether or not to purchase late 2016 MBP with touch bar, I bit the bullet about 6 weeks ago and purchased the new MBP. My reaction to date with the laptop is its OK; my reaction with Apple is never again! The dirty little secret from Apple support is that if they don't make it, they won't discuss it. I have a 4k monitor that doesn't have USB-C input. So I need to use adapters to hook it up. Per Apple support, "MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2016) and late-2016 MacBook Pro models support 60Hz refresh rates over HDMI when used with a supported HDMI 2.0 display, an HDMI Premium Certified cable, and a supported USB-C to HDMI 2.0 adapter." Apple will sell you the Premium Certified Cable, but when you ask about "supported USB-C to HDMI 2.0 adapter", the answer is something like "we don't make that so we don't discuss it". Same response at Apple Store and on-line support. So, my take on Apple's approach to its customers is along the lines of "We decided you don't need those legacy ports... now you go figure it out." I have been drinking the Apple Kool-Aid for a long time, but it has gone sour. Oh, I forgot... after a lot of time on the internet I found a one cable solution that I checked with the monitor manufacturer and cable manufacturer, both of whom were very helpful and gracious. And, the cable was not only simpler but cheaper than Apple solution. Go figure :banghead:

Rant over.

John
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Apple will sell you the Premium Certified Cable, but when you ask about "supported USB-C to HDMI 2.0 adapter", the answer is something like "we don't make that so we don't discuss it". Same response at Apple Store and on-line support. So, my take on Apple's approach to its customers is along the lines of "We decided you don't need those legacy ports... now you go figure it out."

John
So if I'm at some customer location and going to do a presentation using the customer's HDMI (plus an assortment of obsolete interfaces) projector and the 3rd party adapter that is the only option and it doesn't work, it's none of Apple's business. How convenient for them :cussing:

I've been through this before when I tried to use 3rd party Thunderbolt to HDMI adapters with the MacBook Air that I had then. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. There was no way to be certain in beforehand. This was actually one of the reason why I upgraded to MacBook Pro.

If I upgrade to the new Apple in the future, the safest route is probably to carry a portable projector as well then, one with USB-C. That will save me a lot of weight :loco:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Look who's back in town:

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2LL/A&step=config

That's my good old 2014 model MacBook Pro, 15" Retina, now available from... tadaaaa :salute: ... Apple :clap:

I'm quite sure this model wasn't there the last time I checked. Price is more or less the same as for the similarly specified new model, but at least now there's a choice for backwards old men like myself :thumbup:

It's interesting also to notice that the newly revised iMac models feature 4 x old style USB 3 and 2 x new style Thunderbolt 3/USB-C contacts plus an SD-card slot. The yet to be released iMac Pro features 4 x old style USB 3 and 4 x new style Thunderbolt 3/USB-C contacts plus an SD-card slot.

Somebody at Apple is apparently listening. Or maybe Apple developers also have a bunch of ancient style peripherals at home that they want to use :wtf:

Edit: A colleague just came into my office with his brand new Acer Swift 3, a machine that looks exactly like his MacBook Air 13" but is made from plastic and costs less than half as much. It features 2 old style USB contacts, a USB-C and a full size HDMI in addition to an SD-card slot. We've used MacBook Air as travel computers here for years, but Apple policies and prices are about to change that.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Apple is dead to me right now without a 32/64gb memory option.

And I'm the ultimate apple fan boy. They pay part of my salary as a customer.

Dells XPS looks interesting although I could live with the latest Wacom multi studio pro tablet offering even with 16gb ram.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I think this has been available from the beginning, but since you can't get it with the updated graphics, it limits your options if you are a photographer or work in video...
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Apple is dead to me right now without a 32/64gb memory option.
could be, but Lr and Ps are so poor at leveraging cores I'm not sure beefing up RAM helps.

Since some might be interested, I just upgraded from the 2016 MBP loaded which I felt was a slight speed hit from my previous model, mid 2015 to the new 2017 model. The difference is definitely noticeable, especially in Lr. I've done a couple of trips with the 2016 version and the SSD speed is so fast I felt it performed fine for a laptop. The 2017 will be nice for my 2 week trip coming up.
 
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