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Thread: The new MBP, this sums it up

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    The new MBP, this sums it up

    https://www.slrlounge.com/an-open-le...-working-pros/

    I'm very happy with my 2 year old MBP 15" Retina. Unfortunately, any of the new models seem to be downgrades from my existing computer. None of my external devices can be connected, and new devices don't even exist in some cases. All this for a computer that is a few grams lighter, a couple of mm thinner, but still doesn't have a matt screen. 2TB of SSD is cool of course, but I would rather be able to connect my 10TB of external disks and the backups of those disks.

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Yea Apple seems to be losing it for "Pro" models.

    2 TB SSD but only 16GB ram

    Mac Pro still has no 2 TB SSD option

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    The math is not good on it. Maxed out but still short of 32gb of ram is 3500. Add the dock from OWC another 279. Plus let's not forget Uncle Sam . Total 4200. My MBP is a late 2013 model but m track pad is cracked. I thought about just updating to a late 2015 which has a faster processor and better graphics. Net net net I'm still looking at about 1k maybe a little more. It's a thought. From what I read the next Intel processor which will be mid 2017 can go 32 of ram. So like to hold out for that. I'm not in a hurry to do either though so may wait it out. But I agree they made a radical switch to new ports that is forcing everyone to switch as well and even all the dongles needed is a mess of cables unless you buy a dock. I'm thinking it's wise to pass on this version.

    They need to realize that a Pro model the more important aspects are speed and functionality not being ultra thin or have amazing battery life. Most of us are plugged in and using a second monitor so battery means little and so does being ultra thin. The current model is really perfect for power users with all its current ports. Sure be nice to have the new C port for big externals for the speed. Really need to come out with 2 or 3 models of the 15.
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    I do not agree ... the next Intel processor will probably arrive in 2019 ... three year cycle for the MBP.

    The Apple demo of the MBP with the power function strip was pretty compelling ... I would like to see that as an
    add-on to a desktop keyboard.

    And I just recommended the new MBP to a friend who lost most of his pictures ... he is a classical cellist who did
    not backup things when he upgraded his PC notebook to Windows 10. He may get them back ... on the D drive
    and just "disappeared" ... probably still there just not seen. He needs to do LR PS and Logic and the ability to
    have the function strip change with the program would be ideal.

    His comment was that they are expensive but his 4 year old iPad was so good that he saw no reason to upgrade. He
    thought their products are so good no one makes the transition to a new device until they get bored with the old one.

    And finally 4 ports any of which will take power and transmit data ... memory @ 3Gb/sec and SSD to 2 TB.

    Forgive the question but other than income tax who would pay US. BH Photo ships overnight for next to nothing and
    no sales tax.

    Now I have a Mac Pro Tower with 4 internal drives with 12 Tb SSD @ 750 GB and PCIE memory card @ 480 GB and two externals with 16 Tb ... 64 GB internal memory ... GTX Titan video driving
    a Dell 5K monitor. Still think the new 15 MBP with 2 TB lower faster memory and the best graphics may come close to meeting my present needs ... just drop all the internals into an external box
    as a RAID and use the OWC dock to keep it all connected.

    MacOS Sierra transition has been seamless and I would rather have a system that has support at the hardware level from Adobe, Logic, Blackmagic, Apogee.

    May pay a bit more but it is still less than a decent lens.

    JM not so humble O ....

    Bob

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    B&H does not normally sell a upgraded processor, 1TB drive and the upgraded graphics card. These are are all custom built order. At least not now
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    B&H does not normally sell a upgraded processor, 1TB drive and the upgraded graphics card. These are are all custom built order. At least not now
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._pro_with.html

    Might be worth the wait


    Bob

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Thanks Bob. I did not see that so yes worth the tax savings which is well over 300 dollars. I'm okay with just 1Tb so total is 3500.00 which is what I have today is 1Tb and it's very fast. So with a dock it's under 4K out the door. Be a nice Section 179 purchase. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #8
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Not all memory is made the same. The new RAM chips are much faster than the old ones.

    HD could be a limit for some but consider the Type C USB and the new Samsung SSDs.

    The screen is just awesome in just about every respect.

    Expensive but justifiable.

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up


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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Only now did I notice that they've removed the entire row of function keys, including the Esc and power buttons. Both of them are rather essential buttons in my view, the Esc because it closes pop-up windows on the net, and the power button because it's sometimes the only way to turn off the computer if it hangs, and Apple computers do hang occasionally.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    I just left the Apple Store. I ordered the 15 inch 2.9/16gb/1 Tb/high end graphic card 460. My wallet is stinging badly

    Nice tax break. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    You can still get the function keys. Setting that can do it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    B&H has them in stock. No sales tax

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Got a business discount so it equals out ptretty much but I did not see my model in stock. I'll look again
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Only now did I notice that they've removed the entire row of function keys, including the Esc and power buttons. Both of them are rather essential buttons in my view, the Esc because it closes pop-up windows on the net, and the power button because it's sometimes the only way to turn off the computer if it hangs, and Apple computers do hang occasionally.
    Of course, their functions are transferred to other keys, Jorgen. The Apple engineers are not stupid, as you seem to suggest they are. Which other keys ... I don't know, I don't have one of the new computers either. Personally, I almost never touch the ESC key and use the Power button almost exclusively to turn my system on.

    You do look to find some fault with every new product on the market that you might have an interest in, don't you? :-)

    I bought my new MacBook Air 13" just a month before the new MBP announcements. If I'd known they were going to be available for ordering before I left the company, I'd have ordered one of the new MBPs instead, but I only rarely need a full-function laptop anymore and wanted one just for the occasional tethering needs (so much easier to use a laptop than a desktop ...).

    G

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Yea my issue is im mobile a lot where shooting some jobs the client wants them now. The other issue is speed as twice a year I'm shooting close to 15k Raws in 4 days and they get uploaded to SmugMug for sale. So I need a race horse with processing them to size. But for most folks what I ordered is overkill and lets face it this goes down as a section 179 for a business owner.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Of course, their functions are transferred to other keys, Jorgen. The Apple engineers are not stupid, as you seem to suggest they are. Which other keys ... I don't know, I don't have one of the new computers either. Personally, I almost never touch the ESC key and use the Power button almost exclusively to turn my system on.

    You do look to find some fault with every new product on the market that you might have an interest in, don't you? :-)

    I bought my new MacBook Air 13" just a month before the new MBP announcements. If I'd known they were going to be available for ordering before I left the company, I'd have ordered one of the new MBPs instead, but I only rarely need a full-function laptop anymore and wanted one just for the occasional tethering needs (so much easier to use a laptop than a desktop ...).

    G
    The Esc key is very convenient when surfing the internet, particularly to get out of slide shows, pop-ups etc. Because it's physical and at the top left corner, it's easy to hit without looking at the keyboard. I see that it can be defined as a "soft key" on that new, fancy strip that has replaced the row of function keys, but that is not the same, since it won't be possible to click it without looking and since won't always be there.

    But hey, I'm still using a Blackberry with a physical keyboard (changed from a smartphone earlier this year), so I'm probably the weirdo here. I do like physical buttons, and the most important reason to remove them is that they add cost to the device.

    Edit:
    The issue for me is that Apple has taken away features that I use on a daily basis. If the changes had been unavoidable or represented major improvements, it would have been understandable. Unfortunately, I get a strong feeling that Apple is doing this to look different from the competition and to push new hardware. If the new models had represented a major technological breakthrough and it was still possible to get computers from Apple with the old connection and keyboard, it would all have been fine. But what they have presented are new models that have most of the same limitations as the old ones (like 16GB RAM), but that are incompatible with external gear that most users own and that forces many to change their way of working.

    Most suppliers of electronic gear, not least camera manufacturers, keep older technology alive long after the new one has been launched, since this is secure a way to keep customers. I've been a happy Mac user for more than 20 years, and this is the first time that I've looked seriously into what the competition has to offer. When I started to use Apple computers, they were the preferred tools for creative professionals worldwide. That is a market that Apple clearly doesn't seem to target anymore.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 20th November 2016 at 09:39.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The Esc key is very convenient when surfing the internet, particularly to get out of slide shows, pop-ups etc. Because it's physical and at the top left corner, it's easy to hit without looking at the keyboard. I see that it can be defined as a "soft key" on that new, fancy strip that has replaced the row of function keys, but that is not the same, since it won't be possible to click it without looking and since won't always be there.

    But hey, I'm still using a Blackberry with a physical keyboard (changed from a smartphone earlier this year), so I'm probably the weirdo here. I do like physical buttons, and the most important reason to remove them is that they add cost to the device.
    Touch Bar adds FAR more cost to the device. It's considered a better alternative, the majority of users see the function key row as mostly irrelevant. That's why by default the buttons there are mapped to 'more useful' dedicated functions, that most people actually use.

    Touch Bar is a design and functional element that's getting a lot of very positive reviews, except from you and a handful of other people. What's a manufacturer to do? They do offer both ... :-)

    G

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Touch Bar adds FAR more cost to the device. It's considered a better alternative, the majority of users see the function key row as mostly irrelevant. That's why by default the buttons there are mapped to 'more useful' dedicated functions, that most people actually use.

    Touch Bar is a design and functional element that's getting a lot of very positive reviews, except from you and a handful of other people. What's a manufacturer to do? They do offer both ... :-)

    G
    They only offer traditional keys on the cheapest models that can not be specified with 2TB SSD (1TB maximum), have only 2 USB/Thunderbolt 2 ports and an inferior graphics card that seems to work with shared RAM. I currently use a Mac (the mid 2014 top model) that is better specified than that, has 2 USB ports, 2 Thunderbolt ports, the great magnetic power adapter connection and an SD slot. For this Mac, I also have 3 power adapters (one for home, one for the office and one in my travel bag), neither of which will work on a new one, regardless of which model I choose. In a world where finally most mobile phones (except iPhone) can use the same USB power adapter, that's a total anti-environmental policy from Apple, as is the change of physical interface.

    If this had been something that happened once every ten years with Apple, it would have been acceptable, but it's happening with increasingly short intervals. Thunderbolt was something relatively new when I bought the current model 2 years ago, replacing Firewire that was the fashionable interface on the the one before that.

    If these computers were built to last, this wouldn't be a problem, but on my current one, one speaker is making strange, unpleasant noises, the battery lasts for maximum 2 hours and the rubber around the screen has started to disintegrate. It will be in for a service shortly, which will probably cost a lot of money in itself, but even after that, I don't see it lasting for more than maximum a couple of more years, probably shorter.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Yes, I agree with Jorgen on this one. I have used Macs since 2002 or so, and this is the first time since then that I am seriously looking at PCs. I still may wind up with the Macbook Pro to replace my original retina Macbook Pro. The new version takes away a lot of utility that I really do use (USB ports, mag safe, HDMI, SD slot, Thunderbolt connectors) and it does not seem to add so much. I agree with a lot of what is written in the open letter. I run a Mac Pro at my studio and use thunderbolt raid arrays, and I use USB 3 and thunderbolt RAID's on my laptop on a regular basis as well. I use the SD card reader a lot, as well as the HDMI port for connecting to my TV and to projectors etc. We lose all of this for four very good connectors which unfortunately do not have any market penetration yet. Couldn't they just give us 2 USB 3.1 C ports on one side, and the SD card reader, 1 USB-3 and HDMI on the other? I am sure if they did that, hardly anyone would be complaining.

    Meanwhile, the stuff going on in the Windows laptop world is really interesting. For example, the Lenovo X1 Yoga has a great keyboard, Wacom stylus, OLED touch screen with Adobe RGB gamut, similar processors and memory configurations in an even lighter package which also turns into a tablet. The Surface Book as well has a higher resolution screen which is said to be superb, stronger graphics performance arguably a better keyboard (now that Mac is ditching a normal keyboard for the misery of the Macbook style). It also literally splits into two and becomes a super powerful tablet running a full OS, unlike the largely crippled iOS versions that Apple offers. While the Surface Book is still quite expensive, the X1 is over a thousand dollars cheaper than a similarly spec'ed Macbook Pro.

    Don't get me wrong, I like my current Macbook Pro a lot, but I feel like the new one is just becoming a worse and worse proposition these days if you are mostly focused on professional creative arts use. MacOS and Windows are not so terribly far apart these days as they used to be, and Mac is increasingly the OS that forces you to put up with a lot of B.S. (try the new safari! dialogs asking you to install things now or remind you later, with no option to dismiss. Endlessly pushing iCloud, iTunes, Photos, Safari, Siri, Notification Center, Continuity etc, default settings that hide the Library, prevent opening third party apps and so on). I don't want to talk to my computer until it looks like Alicia Vikander.

    The programs that I use on a regular basis are mostly universal:
    the Adobe Suite, Chrome, Davinci Resolve, Color Navigator, i1 Profiler, Skype, VLC and so on. I just don't see why I should continue to pay more to get less these days...it seems to me that Microsoft and other manufacturers are paying more attention to creatives these days than Apple. If you think the Macbook Pro was bad, the Mac Pro has not been updated since the beginning, and even then it was quite annoying as a Pro box. All of a sudden I had a million cables and external boxes all over the place instead of an orderly desk area! It works quite well, but the casing itself is a huge pain as compared to the older version.

    I don't want to be a curmudgeon before I am even 40...I just wish Apple would take the pro users into account. I don't think they will, however, which is why I am looking so seriously again at Windows.
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    The relationship between the different Surface versions is particularly interesting. They all run the same operating system (Windows 10, which means they can all run Adobe CC, although some of them slowly), they all have touch screens, they can all be used as tablets, they all have "standard" USB contacts, they all have SD card or Micro SD readers, and the cheapest range can even use the same charger as most mobile phones (standard USB charger).

    The most important reason why I haven't bought an iPad is that it can't replace my Mac for basic work when I travel light, simply because I can neither connect peripherals like an external disk or card reader without extra gear (that would negate the advantage of travelling light anyway) nor load the software I use for editing. An iPad is a convenient device, but there's a lack of commonality between the different Apple devices that is very surprising. Going 20 years back, the ease of exchanging data between different Apple computers was one of the features that made them great. Nowadays, this seems to be something that is actively prevented by Apple, not only between different styles of devices, but now also between different generations of devices within the same family.

    Many of the reasons why I started using a Mac are simply not there anymore.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 20th November 2016 at 20:41.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up


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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    I have one in hand now. Lots of hot air out there over it, I guess folks don't like change. Anyway very nice machine and the Touch Bar is quite interesting in its own way. But until our processing and work programs use it , it's just a nice feature. I have to get into its setup on how to use it more. It's a very fast computer for what we do . Great reads and writes that helps in processing.


    Overpriced, well it is not cheap . If I did not get a discount and with tax it's just shy of 3900.
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    BTW there is a Fn button at the very bottom left on the keyboard . Hit that and your function keys show up in Touch Pad. Tried it in Photoshop and works fine like normal. You have to hold the Fn button though but works on my wireless keyboard as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    My mid-2009 MBP is still chugging along although it did require battery replacement a few years back and I upgraded the HDD to a 1TB SSD unit. The new MBP looks great and it would be a great Christmas present but I'm up in the air about buying one or getting the next iMac.
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I don't want to talk to my computer until it looks like Alicia Vikander.
    May we all live long enough for this to come to fruition.
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to eat my words. I bought a Surface Book and while it is very nice in many ways, it cannot even open my 4k pro res files, and is laggy even with h.264. I thought it was just a codec issue, but it does not really work with VLC or in Resolve either. Since so much of my stuff is pro res, I guess I am pretty much stuck with the macbook pro. I still do not like the new one, and I am debating sourcing an old one with the upgraded video card. The good news is that I bought the surface book in the States and brought it back with me to Iceland, where it is still not readily available and much more expensive anyway, so I should be able to at least get my money back out of it...
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to eat my words. I bought a Surface Book and while it is very nice in many ways, it cannot even open my 4k pro res files, and is laggy even with h.264. I thought it was just a codec issue, but it does not really work with VLC or in Resolve either. Since so much of my stuff is pro res, I guess I am pretty much stuck with the macbook pro. I still do not like the new one, and I am debating sourcing an old one with the upgraded video card. The good news is that I bought the surface book in the States and brought it back with me to Iceland, where it is still not readily available and much more expensive anyway, so I should be able to at least get my money back out of it...
    Stuart

    I read somewhere the new mac release next year will be a much better improvement when the later upgraded chip manufacturing is ready to ship (seems that's part of the reason apple is holding back on new technology) rumor has it. I tested it out in the store and after files opened it seems to run slower when fooling around with the images. For my money it looks as if the IMAC is the only viable work horse and Ill keep my 2014 macbook pro for now.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Thanks bab,
    I still have a 2013 Mac Pro at the studio, and while it is not new anymore, it still is more than fast enough for my video work, even on 4k. I don't do much very complicated edits, nor am I editing at production scale, so as long as the renders are reasonable and it is not laggy to work with in real time, I am ok. That said, for when I am not at the studio, it is nice to have a mobile computer...I often go to the countryside for a week or more at a time to photograph, and it is nice to have some way to at least view and sort the images and videos while I am in the field or abroad. I will stick with my 4 year old model for the time being at least, as I will likely not get back to the States again until summer, and the computers are so much cheaper there. The new Macbook Pro I would want costs 5,270 dollars in Iceland, it is "only" 3500 in the US. The difference more than covers the cost of the flight, even on business class!
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Consumer Reports just denied recommending the new MacBook Pros.

    MacBook Pro fails to earn Consumer Reports recommendation for first time

    I think Apple is finally experiencing "no Steve Jobs" meltdown

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    "You're kicking me off the deck of the Titanic... saying: "Swim to the nearest iceberg!"

    Classic video, Jorgen! You've made my day!

    Let's make it thinner, lighter, and require the user to use a bunch of dongles which, if forgotten (and they will be forgotten), you'll be screwed bananas! All for a shiny new Mac toy!





    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Well, I pulled the trigger on a new 15" MacBook Pro. Maxed out the processor and the graphics card; one TB SSD. My 2010 iMac is just tired and needs to retire.
    Dongles don't bother me much since even a 2015 MBP would require Thunderbolt adapters for my Firewire800 based stuff anyway.
    We'll see how it goes. I'd rather get a little something rather than give it ALL to Uncle Sam.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Consumer Reports just denied recommending the new MacBook Pros.

    MacBook Pro fails to earn Consumer Reports recommendation for first time

    I think Apple is finally experiencing "no Steve Jobs" meltdown
    I put absolutely no faith in anything that CR puts out being that I was a person that worked for a company that produced many surveys/polling data for their behalf. Without getting into specifics the quality of data was/is all over the place.
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Consumer Reports just denied recommending the new MacBook Pros.

    MacBook Pro fails to earn Consumer Reports recommendation for first time

    I think Apple is finally experiencing "no Steve Jobs" meltdown
    Apple stock is up $0.97 today, and is at near-record highs. If that's a 'melt down', melt on!

    Do you trust Consumer Reports to rate your cameras accurately? If not, why would you trust their ratings on computers?

    G

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Lot of whining about this MBP , not here but Mac Rumors and I got to say my top end 15 runs like a dream. Really liking it. Torture test next week with it. About 15 thousands Raws I have to process and upload. See how it holds up but i have been very happy so far. CR is not very accurate in their testing, sorry.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    The type C connection is really fast.

    Mine is doing a great job and being quite lightweight is a pleasure carry around traveling!
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Lot of whining about this MBP , ....
    Here's some more whining for you:
    The day before yesterday, I visited a customer for what I thought was a pre-installation briefing of a product they have bought. The meeting took place in a little town in The Philippines, three hours by plane and another three hours by car from our office. To my surprise, the customer had 8 people coming to the meeting and they expected a full product presentation with photos and videos. In the end, we spent 5 hours together.

    The meeting was a success, and some of the reasons for the success were that:

    - I could connect my MacBook to the HDMI cable that was plugged into the TV in the meeting room.
    - There were photos and videos available on two 2TB external disks that I always carry when travelling.
    - I could copy material to their USB thumb drives for later use by them (no outsider access to their WiFi for security reasons).

    This could also have been done with the new MBP if I added:

    - 2 x USB C to old USB 3 converters, or only one converter if I threw away my one year old and perfectly good disks and replaced them with new one at a cost of a few hundred dollars.
    - 1 x USB to HDMI converter.
    - American style plugs for the charger that I have already bought for the charger for my current MBP, but that I assume won't fit with the new charger (or maybe they will... who knows?). Assorted standards would be needed, and travel converters don't always cut it because they are to bulky etc.

    To start with, buying and carrying all the extra parts represent extra costs and a logistic challenges that neither I nor other travellers want. Secondly, HDMI and "old" USB are industrial standards that won't go away overnight, particularly not HDMI. While I see thousands of happy MacBook users on airports everywhere who seem to feel very cool clicking away on their state-of-the-art Appletops, I'm sure that they wouldn't feel nearly as cool when they come to a meeting and 8 or 10 people have to flock around a 13" screen because the wonder device can't be connected to the gear in the meeting room.

    Progress is fine, and I'm sure USB-C is great progress that we'll all adapt to eventually (the new GH5 features full size USB-C and full size HDMI to take an example), but throwing out an established industrial standard overnight will only annoy people, particularly when it would have been perfectly possible to equip the new computer with old USB, USB-C, mag safe and HDMI. That is exactly what Apple used to do when the alternatives were USB/Thunderbolt and USB/Firewire.

    Applied technology is cool when it's not annoying and only then. If I'd had a shiny new MBP at the meeting referred to above, chances are that I'd feel very annoyed and not very cool. It's also unprofessional, and that is not something I intend to become. Apple will have to change or go.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 12th January 2017 at 17:06.

  38. #38
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Well I just did a big show in LA. First and foremost I shot 14 thousand images all RAW all processed in C1 and it ran like a racehorse with not one glitch. Secondly I put all 14k on IPhoto which on my old 2013 took forever to load in. This unit took a few minutes and I was running in a ballroom with huge 16:9 screens that where absolutely outstanding on screen through HDMI apple connector which is 49 dollars has HDMI one USB -c and one USB a connector. Absolutely ran in perfection doing PowerPoint, keynote and all I could throw at . Now projectors count and I had some of the bes at my disposal but I'm also on 12x20 foot screens or thereabouts. I only needed 2 other cables a TB2 to USB-c for my Apple TB me monitor and a USB a hub with Ethernet which I also uploaded 14k on smugmug. I use a faster SD card reader for my Lexar 2000 cards which I would use on any box with or without a built in SD card reader. Now all this about adapters and cables I'm sorry to say is all bullshit. You have to carry these cables anyway. So if you can't spend a extra 50 bucks and can't throw a few extras in your bag than you have a serious issue. Your getting paid to work. There are no excuses if your getting paid. Sorry I don't buy any of this crap. It was a huge success for me and it ran fast as heck and never one issue. Believe me I was pushing it as hard as you can. It laughed at me , said give me more. LOL

    Also one of the PC computers blew up in the production booth we where completely down for 15 minutes in front of 2 thousand people in the ballroom. I went out bought a brand new 13 inch MBP TB for the company so we can throw out all PC out of the production booth. All the crew supporting our show all had macs. Next day we ran 3 huge competitions with the 13 inch runnng all the contestants photos and worked perfectly. I'm sorry when it works than that's all that counts. So now my wife's company has a 13 inch to run shows and I use mine to run part of the show and process all the images. Pcs will never see that production booth again never ever in a million years as long as I'm part owner.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  39. #39
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's some more whining for you:
    ...
    This could also have been done with the new MBP if I added:

    - 2 x USB C to old USB 3 converters, or only one converter if I threw away my one year old and perfectly good disks and replaced them with new one at a cost of a few hundred dollars.
    - 1 x USB to HDMI converter.
    - American style plugs for the charger that I have already bought for the charger for my current MBP, but that I assume won't fit with the new charger (or maybe they will... who knows?). Assorted standards would be needed, and travel converters don't always cut it because they are to bulky etc.

    To start with, buying and carrying all the extra parts represent extra costs and a logistic challenges that neither I nor other travellers want. ...
    Yup, more whining.

    All those parts amount to 100g worth of equipment that will fit in any case you carry your laptop or camera in already, and costs less than $50. If you can't manage that, I don't know how you manage carrying your camera and all of its various require bits and pieces.

    I have a little case that I toss in my bag whenever I go to a presentation. It currently contains and HDMI cable, adapters for Lightning to HDMI, Thunderbolt to HDMI, various display outputs to SVGA adapters, SD card reader, Lightning SD card adapter, extra Lighting to USB cables, USB to USB-C cables, Firewire 400 to 800, Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt, US to UK, Euro, and Swiss power adapters, two extra chargers for Mac and iDevices, and an RF remote pointer. That little bag is 4x6x1.5 inches and slides neatly into any carry sack, laptop bag, or camera bag I've ever owned.

    I've been carrying the same little bag with different assortments of these bits (as technologies came and went) for the past 25 years because I could be called upon at any time to do a presentation, whether for my work or for my photography... or both. These are necessary tools for presentation. If you can't manage to think ahead to what you might need for your presentation, or to carry the tools you need with your presentation equipment, you're not acting professionally.

    G

  40. #40
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Yup, more whining.

    All those parts amount to 100g worth of equipment that will fit in any case you carry your laptop or camera in already, and costs less than $50. If you can't manage that, I don't know how you manage carrying your camera and all of its various require bits and pieces.

    I have a little case that I toss in my bag whenever I go to a presentation. It currently contains and HDMI cable, adapters for Lightning to HDMI, Thunderbolt to HDMI, various display outputs to SVGA adapters, SD card reader, Lightning SD card adapter, extra Lighting to USB cables, USB to USB-C cables, Firewire 400 to 800, Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt, US to UK, Euro, and Swiss power adapters, two extra chargers for Mac and iDevices, and an RF remote pointer. That little bag is 4x6x1.5 inches and slides neatly into any carry sack, laptop bag, or camera bag I've ever owned.

    I've been carrying the same little bag with different assortments of these bits (as technologies came and went) for the past 25 years because I could be called upon at any time to do a presentation, whether for my work or for my photography... or both. These are necessary tools for presentation. If you can't manage to think ahead to what you might need for your presentation, or to carry the tools you need with your presentation equipment, you're not acting professionally.

    G
    It's not about the price of the adapters and not about weight, it's about using equipment that are built to industry standards, and that will work with those standards with a minimum of fuzz. Apple has chosen to replace industry standard interfaces with something that will probably be the standard in the future (which they also said Thunderbolt would be and Firewire and SCSI, but none of those caught on outside the Apple universe). I travel to 4-5 countries on a regular basis and quite a few others occasionally. Adapters for mains plugs already represent a hassle, and although they mostly work properly, there are often situations where they represent a problem due to size or lack of reliability.

    Having a bag full of adapters means one possible problem for each adapter. It's fine if you travel to places where adapters can easily be replaced, but even in Bangkok, USB-C adapters are difficult to find. At smaller places in Asia you can mostly forget about it. Apple stores around here sell what most people buy; the latest budget models of the most popular devices and iPhone covers in pink or gold. If you are lucky, the girl behind the counter knows how to use other applications than FB and Line, but don't count on it. An Apple device is something people here buy to show that they can afford it. They are already lining up for the iPhone 9 or 10 or whatever.

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/gadg...2xenTakk.gmail

  41. #41
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's not about the price of the adapters and not about weight, it's about using equipment that are built to industry standards, and that will work with those standards with a minimum of fuzz. Apple has chosen to replace industry standard interfaces with something that will probably be the standard in the future (which they also said Thunderbolt would be and Firewire and SCSI, but none of those caught on outside the Apple universe). I travel to 4-5 countries on a regular basis and quite a few others occasionally. Adapters for mains plugs already represent a hassle, and although they mostly work properly, there are often situations where they represent a problem due to size or lack of reliability.

    Having a bag full of adapters means one possible problem for each adapter. It's fine if you travel to places where adapters can easily be replaced, but even in Bangkok, USB-C adapters are difficult to find. At smaller places in Asia you can mostly forget about it. Apple stores around here sell what most people buy; the latest budget models of the most popular devices and iPhone covers in pink or gold. If you are lucky, the girl behind the counter knows how to use other applications than FB and Line, but don't count on it. An Apple device is something people here buy to show that they can afford it. They are already lining up for the iPhone 9 or 10 or whatever.

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/gadg...2xenTakk.gmail
    My 'bag full of adapters' has NEVER, in 25 years of hard use, caused any problems whatsoever in any country I've been to and used it. These include: USA, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Yugoslavia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa, American Samoa, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, India, and Egypt. I've never been to any computer or equipment oriented store when on travel ... everything I carried along has always worked 100% perfectly.

    Your concerns are FUD and myth. EVERY international presenter I know (and I at least used to know a lot of them) does the same as I have done.

    (And ... Looking at that list, gods I'm happy I'm retired now... :-)

    Apple has established a new standard with USB-C, as they have done so many times before. Whether it takes off or not is up to the future to decide. It's worth remembering that USB was created by Intel and they begged Microsoft and the PC/Windows computer manufacturers to incorporate the drivers and ports into their machines for a decade with no response. Apple was the first company to incorporate it—take the leap as it were—as the standard and ONLY serial hardware/protocol access port in the iMac in 1998-1999 ... and it has since become a worldwide success and standard. Intel publicly sent Apple a thank you note for being the first to validate their work and establish it as a success and a standard. All the other manufacturers and Microsoft adopted it afterwards...

    Whining about Apple technology gets you nowhere. If you don't like it, buy what you find more suitable, use it, and move on. There's absolutely no point to complaining about it. Technology changes constantly in this day and age. If you don't want to keep up with it, get out of the game and do something else.

    G

    "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."

  42. #42
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My 'bag full of adapters' has NEVER, in 25 years of hard use, caused any problems whatsoever in any country I've been to and used it. These include: USA, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, Ireland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Germany, Yugoslavia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa, American Samoa, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, India, and Egypt. I've never been to any computer or equipment oriented store when on travel ... everything I carried along has always worked 100% perfectly.

    Your concerns are FUD and myth. EVERY international presenter I know (and I at least used to know a lot of them) does the same as I have done.

    (And ... Looking at that list, gods I'm happy I'm retired now... :-)

    Apple has established a new standard with USB-C, as they have done so many times before. Whether it takes off or not is up to the future to decide. It's worth remembering that USB was created by Intel and they begged Microsoft and the PC/Windows computer manufacturers to incorporate the drivers and ports into their machines for a decade with no response. Apple was the first company to incorporate it—take the leap as it were—as the standard and ONLY serial hardware/protocol access port in the iMac in 1998-1999 ... and it has since become a worldwide success and standard. Intel publicly sent Apple a thank you note for being the first to validate their work and establish it as a success and a standard. All the other manufacturers and Microsoft adopted it afterwards...

    Whining about Apple technology gets you nowhere. If you don't like it, buy what you find more suitable, use it, and move on. There's absolutely no point to complaining about it. Technology changes constantly in this day and age. If you don't want to keep up with it, get out of the game and do something else.

    G

    "Equipment is transitory. Photographs endure."
    I am trying other ways, ordering a Chinese tablet now, with two USB ports, for travel. They are all made in China anyway, so no reason to pay western companies extra for the fancy label.

    What Apple has done doesn't change the fact that HDMI is the standard for more or less all TV's and projectors on the market. Even if manufacturers of those devices should start changing to USB-C from tomorrow, a majority of devices around will still have HDMI for years to come. Most computer manufacturer know this and are still making laptop computers that incorporate this vital contact. This is as if Nikon or another camera manufacturers launched a camera where existing lenses could only be used with an adapter. But they don't. Nikon's lens mount is by no means perfect, but they stick to it because they know how important that is to their market share. And when they launched the D5 accepting the new QXD cards, they also offered a version accepting the old CF cards because they know photographers have stacks of them. Canon likewise, and Nikon with the D810, have made pro bodies with SD and CF card slot for years to give customers options.

    I don't know what is behind Apple's decision, a decision that breaks fundamentally with earlier practices. What I do know is that several of my friends skipped the 1-USB-C-port MacBook and bought the older Air instead, mostly because they didn't want to deal with converters and obviously didn't want to scrap all external devices. It's impractical, expensive and it's a waste of resources. I've been a Mac user for 20 years, and I was all in favour of removing the floppy drive, the CD/DVD-drive and the Ethernet contact because those features were already becoming obsolete. USB 3 however is in no way obsolete, although that seems to be what Apple is aiming to achieve. It makes me angry because my favourite computers are becoming less functional. The company I work for, where several colleagues have changed to Mac the last few years, is certainly not going to pay for upgrades to new MacBooks that have become 30-50% more expensive and then in addition have to change hubs, disks and other devices in spite of the "old" ones working perfectly. No, we will not base our work on converters. They will be forgotten in the office, at home and in hotel rooms. Most of our external devices will plug into any Windows PC anyway. That is what people used before, and that is what they will go back to.

    The irony of it all is that Apple for years have been eliminating things, convincing users that computing should be simple, with fewer cables and external devices. Now, they try to convince us that carrying a bunch of converters is the ideal solution, and the SD card reader that they obsoleted when introducing the SD slot to their computers has suddenly become a necessity again. Less cables and stuff was one of the reasons why I changed to Mac 20 years ago. More converters might change me back. I'll see when the Macbook is due for upgrade, but alternative solutions have already been ordered for testing, partly because of this and partly because the iPad Pro lacks the option of physical connections and memory expansion.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Change is the price of innovation.

    Some of 'us' do know why they moved to USB-C on these machines, and the reasons are both simple and compelling. But you don't want to hear it, you just want to complain. You, now using the standards that Apple helped innovate into the workplace, simply don't want to hear of further change and project your interpretation of what Apple has been doing and call it wrong. There's no point to further debate—you don't want to discuss or compromise, you want to complain.

    So keep complaining while "the rest of us" just get on with using our systems, adapting to change as it occurs, and picking the systems that work best for us.

    I'm unsubscribing from this thread now.

    G

  44. #44
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Change is the price of innovation.

    Some of 'us' do know why they moved to USB-C on these machines, and the reasons are both simple and compelling. But you don't want to hear it, you just want to complain. You, now using the standards that Apple helped innovate into the workplace, simply don't want to hear of further change and project your interpretation of what Apple has been doing and call it wrong. There's no point to further debate—you don't want to discuss or compromise, you want to complain.

    So keep complaining while "the rest of us" just get on with using our systems, adapting to change as it occurs, and picking the systems that work best for us.

    I'm unsubscribing from this thread now.

    G
    Wrong. I simply don't want to spend money on something with less functionality than what I have, and I don't want to pay for and carry lots of stuff that I haven't needed before, stuff that doesn't add a single bit of functionality compared to my current MacBook. I'm sure USB-C is great, but I live in a world of USB 3 and HDMI. And where are those compelling reasons to like USB-C? I know it's faster, but I don't need that speed. Not now anyway. Anything else?

    Some people are making money out of this though:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...sb-c-hub-for-m

  45. #45
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    All you need are maybe a couple of these and will work with all your USB A accessories

    https://www.amazon.com/AUKEY-USB-C-U...+USB+C+adapter

    For HDMI i use this but many others out there


    https://www.amazon.com/Apple-USB-C-D...e+usb+c+dongle

    It has a USB A and a USB C port as well as a HDMI. Works great

    Another one rated good is this HDMI only

    https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation...+to+hdmi&psc=1

    Yes a couple extra dollars but honestly Apple never made a industry standard that was in the PC market. Firewire 400, 800 and Thunderbolt where all mostly used by Mac and not PC. USB A and now USB-C are industry standards used by both Mac and PC. Actually this is one of the few times Apple went industry standard USB -C which granted is only on some PCs but this is growing fast and the next technology. We had all kinds of stuff that are all extinct now. USB-C is even on phones and some tablets
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    I use this in my office and another great product 3 USB A plus Ethernet feeding to a USB-C male. I put my printers/dvd drive and another USB A External drive on it. We had to buy ethernet connectors anyway so this adds functionality.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    I had the first version of this the Samsung T1 with USB A and turned that into a backup OS plus storage but I bought the new T3 unit for on the road. Fast reads and writes are in the 400's. Again i would have this with me anyway

    https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-T3-Po...3+portable+ssd
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    So my reality is really one extra adapter that i did not have

    My 4 ports are

    1 Power would have that anyway
    2 T3 again that is always was the case
    3 My Apple HDMI 3 way cable above . I have the Ethernet adapter plus 3 USB port adapter connected to it
    4 I have a Pegasus R4 raid drive which has a T2 connection so I added the T2 to USB-c adapter. My monitor goes into the Pegasus than out from there to computer. I always had this connection but I did need the T2 to USB 3 adapter. I think Apple is the only one that works. 20 dollars

    For SD i will just take off the T3 when uploading Raws.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  49. #49
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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    The problem, Guy, is that although all these solutions will work, each of them will still represent a hassle. Most people dislike converters, particularly Apple users, since they represent the opposite of the simplicity that Apple has been standing for.

    - If the transition to USB-C had brought an immediate advantage, it would be another situation, but it doesn't. It brings an immediate disadvantage.

    - If other kinds of Apple devices would accept USB-C, it would also be another situation, but neither iPhones nor iPads accept any kind of USB. There's no such thing as a unified Apple universe, and as opposed to their main competitor MS, Apple run a different OS on tablets and laptops. There's little compatibility in the Apple world.

    - Before USB 3, Firewire and Thunderbolt made sense because USB 1 and 2 were so slow, but few users need a faster connection than USB 3. It can be convenient sometimes, but the convenience comes at a cost.

    - Many users have bad experiences with converters. My Coolscan 2000 became obsolete when Apple discontinued SCSI and I couldn't find a SCSI adapter that worked satisfactory with the scanner. So I ended up with a good, expensive but useless scanner and several useless adapters, none of them cheap.

    Part of Apple's strength has been their willingness to offer several connection solutions with each computer to cater for all customer needs. This seems to have changed. Two computer families, this one and the "one-USB-C-MacBook" have been launched with nothing but USB-C. For me, and I know for many other users, a computer isn't fully functional if existing devices cannot be connected without using adapters. Users want simplicity, not complexity, integrity, not exclusivity and fragmentation.

    Again, I'm sure that USB-C is the interface of the future, but I want choice. Apple doesn't give me one. Other suppliers do, and some are still sticking to "good old" USB 3 only. All my devices will plug straight into those computers, and shops are full of more devices that will. If many enough MacBook users make the choice to leave, Apple will become the company that many of us feared it would become: A supplier of pink iPhones. That would be a sad development. It was once a great company.

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    Re: The new MBP, this sums it up

    I've noticed the decline in Apple's computer product and software product for years through gritted teeth. With all its problems though - I think the photo/video superiority of the mac in terms of user experience if nothing else - is still better, still I dont need to upgrade into this particular offering - no SD card reader/no USB port? really I mean really???? wtf

    For making money my businesses run on PC's - of course.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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