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Converting/Modifying to IR

Don Libby

Well-known member
I seem to have hijacked Jack's search for a 5D to convert to IR. We've gotten into a good conversation regarding the merits of IR, conversion of cameras, and more than likely soon be heading to the post processing stage. Jack has been patient with me on this however I feel the need to move the discussion here if anything to stop the hijack and maybe add more to the general discussion.

To bring everyone somewhat up to date, Jack is looking to convert a 5D if he can find a used one at a reasonable price. I on the other hand am debating converting either a G10 or a spare 1Ds II that has been collecting dust since my entrance into the medium format underworld.

I'll add more later on but right now this has to be it as my laptop batteries are running low.

Don
 

Diane B

New member
Don, I've seen G9's converted and they work lovely. I tried some IR with mine--very slow shutter speeds (slower than most of my DLSRs except my old D60 which didn't work well for IR at all), but converted--nice. I converted an old 10D and enjoy it--but often forget to put the body in when I anticipate being places that would work well for IR. I was pretty fascinated by the shots in the Moab thread too--lighting wise.

Diane
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Jack

In your research what did you find if anything about converting a 1Ds II? I've got one sitting in a closet collecting dust that I only use for lightning. Now Sandy tells me I can use her 1DsIII so that opens up the Mark II. Do I combine the two cameras for a greater spread of lightning or do I convert to IR.

Don't want to sell it so that's not a real option.

Don
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Don Libby
Iron Creek Photography
Tucson AZ



Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Creek
Do I combine the two cameras for a greater spread of lightning or do I convert to IR.


Don, tough call. The mkII is still 16MP and is no slouch even by today's 20+mp standards, is also a weather-proofed camera, so I'd be tempted to keep it visible light for lightning spread and back-up in that environment.

By definition, most IR captures are softer than visible light, so frankly total pixel count becomes less of a concern to me. I wanted full-frame IR and I have Canon mount lenses, so that left the 5D or 1Ds mkI as my first choices for conversion -- and the 5D is cheaper and lighter in weight to slog around in the bag, though if a deal on a 1Ds1 came along, I'd sure look at it.

The other side of that coin is lightning captures might be very cool combined with IR backgrounds -- have no idea, but it's a thought worth considering -- and would certainly work for monochrome lightning images...

To answer you first question, I did not specifically explore 1 series conversions, but am pretty sure precision camera charges the same price for the conversion of all full-frame cameras, while Life-Pixel and MaxMax charge more for the 1 series.
__________________
Jack
Guy and Jack's Upcoming Workshops



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flesher
The other side of that coin is lightning captures might be very cool combined with IR backgrounds -- have no idea, but it's a thought worth considering -- and would certainly work for monochrome lightning images...

You get the best IR effects when there's a lot of light available, natural or artificial, not much going on in its absence. There wont be any noticeable difference shooting dark skies with an IR converted or standard camera, specially in monochrome without lighting up the environment.
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david

www.pbase.com/ddk
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I had originally thought of going to Maxmax for a conversion until I found Precision. Maxmax charges $450 for DSLR camera conversion and it looks like will convert either a G9 or G10. Precision on the other hand charges $299 for DSLR and $129 for the G.

I've run hot and cold over whether I should go with a DSLR or P&S and currently leaning towards the 1DsII.

I was going to say something about lightning in IR until I read David's response which does make sense. Of course I can see a static shot where one image is captured during the day and the other with lightning then combining the two.

Any idea of the turn around time for Precision?
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Don Libby
Iron Creek Photography
Tucson AZ


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flesher
Actually David, this isn't quite true. On our workshops we demonstrate just how much IR is available about an hour before or after sunrise due to residual heat energy.


There is light during that period, the sky isn't dark yet.
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david

www.pbase.com/ddk


David see post #114 on this thread. There are more shots later some of which go a little over the top IMHO....

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...orkshop&page=6


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddk
There is light during that period, the sky isn't dark yet.

Jack: Yes there is still some light, but you said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddk
You get the best IR effects when there's a lot of light available, natural or artificial
There certainly isn't a LOT of light an hour before sunrise or after sunset.

Jack: If you go to the link Terry posted above, you can see the effect. Also, if you ask Jim Collum about his IR images, many are done in the pre-dawn and post-dusk hour...
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Jack


This discussion has really gotten me thinking about a conversion. Now which will it be - the 1Ds II gives me a choice of lenses although I'd more than likely stick with the 24-70 or do I convert a G10 for the fun factor as well as movies?

Jack -which camera did you use on those Moab images?

Terry - thank you for posting the link as I had completely forgotten about the images.

Don

Of course this isn't helping you find that 5D
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Don Libby
Iron Creek Photography
Tucson AZ


Don: The Moab shots were done with a 720nm filter over the lens of my M8. The M8's leak enough IR to make images, so being able to mount a filter on the lens and still see through the RF viewfinder, make them viable to use either way
__________________
Jack
Guy and Jack's Upcoming Workshops
Guy and Jack's Upcoming Workshops
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Don, I've seen G9's converted and they work lovely. I tried some IR with mine--very slow shutter speeds (slower than most of my DLSRs except my old D60 which didn't work well for IR at all), but converted--nice. I converted an old 10D and enjoy it--but often forget to put the body in when I anticipate being places that would work well for IR. I was pretty fascinated by the shots in the Moab thread too--lighting wise.

Diane
Hi Dianne - thanks for the added thoughts.

I've always focused first when using a DSLR before adding the filter however I don't have to do that with the Cambo. I also found I was always shooting at slower shutter speeds with the filter (similar to shooting lightning).

Looking at the examples on Maxmax and Precision is appears that you can shoot at high speed to the point of being able to handhold which is interesting in itself.

Just what I need, more gear to lug around...

Don
 

Diane B

New member
Hi Dianne - thanks for the added thoughts.

I've always focused first when using a DSLR before adding the filter however I don't have to do that with the Cambo. I also found I was always shooting at slower shutter speeds with the filter (similar to shooting lightning).

Looking at the examples on Maxmax and Precision is appears that you can shoot at high speed to the point of being able to handhold which is interesting in itself.

Just what I need, more gear to lug around...

Don
I haven't seen Precision's, but have seen Maxmax and Lifepixels. I can easily handhold my 10DIR--use it pretty much like I would normally shoot with it. With the G10 I would assume, like the G1, that you would see the exposure with the filter, whereas the 10D-5D, etc. once converted, you use the VF normally and so have to experiment at first. I tend to shoot in M with it. The new DSLRs with liveview might be even easier--or at least a wee bit faster, but once you work out settings for the IR converted ones without liveview, its not really an issue.

Yep--you need more gear LOL. That's why I tend to forget my 10DIR--I already have 5D kit and G1 kit--but to add just the G10 would not be much for you *smile*. I'm actually starting to carry a Hoya R72 with the G1 but haven't used it yet. Just stick it in folder with NDs, polarizer and step rings. Beautiful sky out--maybe I'll try it out this afternoon as oppsed to the dedicated IR.

Diane
 

Terry

New member
Yep--you need more gear LOL. That's why I tend to forget my 10DIR--I already have 5D kit and G1 kit--but to add just the G10 would not be much for you *smile*. I'm actually starting to carry a Hoya R72 with the G1 but haven't used it yet. Just stick it in folder with NDs, polarizer and step rings. Beautiful sky out--maybe I'll try it out this afternoon as oppsed to the dedicated IR.

Diane
Which is why I would do it with a compact that I have lying around (d-lux3) or Fuji F20. I'm also not selling prints.

Diane - I think Vivek has posted that you get no IR response from the G1
 

Diane B

New member
Which is why I would do it with a compact that I have lying around (d-lux3) or Fuji F20. I'm also not selling prints.

Diane - I think Vivek has posted that you get no IR response from the G1
Well, I've had no trouble shooting IR with the G1. They are long shutter times, but still not an issue. I dragged the 5D (couldn't find the Hoya for it anywhere--it will turn up somewhere so had to use the much less good Cokin 89B which let some light in, isn't dark enough--yada, yada--so the 5D didn't perform well at all), the G1 with the Hoya R72 and my 10DIR. It was calibrated with a 50 as I recall (Lifepixel) and doesn't 'like' WAZ--not my 12-24, 15-39, 17-35--but loves my Sigma 15 f/2.8 FE--and does very well with the old EF 28-135 IS. Go figure!. I expect I could work out the focus with the WAZ, but with the FE (which is not very 'fishy' on a 1.6x body) and the 28-135, that's plenty to carry for IR. As I recall, all my primes are fine with it also (28, 50, 85, 135).

Just did a quick export from LR--only capture sharpening and mon processing in LR

This is G1--14-45, 14mm, f/7.1 4 sec. ISO100 (believe I could have shot with faster shutter increasing ISO and open up a bit more)


This is converted 10D--both handheld (and I notice I got a Thalia leaf in the right side which I missed)
28-135IS at 28mm f/8.0 1/125 ISO 100


10D with 15 f/2.8 FE f/8.0 1/160s ISO 100


Notice that the G1 with Hoya didn't pick up any of the highlight on the pool. I can drag it out a bit by playing with it more in PS, but its not naturally there--though it is in color shot. I might be able to work with that by using AEL, etc. while shooting--not sure.

I just realized that my Hoya will fit my EF 28 f/1.8 for the 5D so will try that just for comparison. Of course processing can make a huge difference with these with more time spent--these were relatively quickies.

Later in the day obviously 5D with 28 f/1.8 f/10.0 5 sec ISO800 Hoya R72 no focus corrections.



Diane
 
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Don Libby

Well-known member
Diane, thanks for the sample images. The thing I like about IR is that the blue skies go black while the clouds get whiter along with what it does with the foliage. More food for thought.

Don

I have just about completely made up my mind against either a G9 or 10 but still like the "fun" capability they would offer. How's that for a mixed message?:D
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
You guys are makes it very hard on me! I'm busy with a project yet want to jump and get a body converted - G10 or 1Ds II? This hour it's the 1Ds II.
 

smokysun

New member
i'd certainly go for the 1ds II. you'd be in a class by yourself.


a few more examples.
 
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Diane B

New member
i'd certainly go for the 1ds II. you'd be in a class by yourself.


a few more examples.
I'd say LOL!!!!. Here I am with a lowly old 10D. Nonetheless, it still works fine and even a 6MP is fine for prints I would make from IR files, but gosh, 5D or the 1DsII--they'd be something ('course, if I could either find my larger R72 or buy a new one and be willing to carry a tripod, I can shoot 5D also). I need to get the 10IR out and utilize it more--shot quite a bit in the beginning--then got lazy and didn't want to carry multiple bodies again.

Diane
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
One of the advantages I see to using a newer DSLR body is the added DR over the earlier versions. Here the 1Ds2 would be king... And I'd be jealous as heck with my 'lowly' 5D conversion ;)
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
One of the advantages I see to using a newer DSLR body is the added DR over the earlier versions. Here the 1Ds2 would be king... And I'd be jealous as heck with my 'lowly' 5D conversion ;)
I've just about have myself convinced to go with the 1Ds II. I put that body away shortly after getting my P30+ and now only take it out for lightning and the rare wildlife photo. I'm in good shape as Sandy shoots with a 1Ds III so I can always borrow hers if needed.

I'm almost done with a project and hopefully will call Precision by weeks end. The good thing which is also a potential bad thing is it looks like they require the lens you plan to shoot with. Not sure if Sandy is willing to let go of a lens.

Gee Jack - I'm sitting here racking my brain on a proper response to your potential jealously! Maybe we can bring the two together for a shootout.

I do want and plan on taking a workshop if nothing else to make you feel short :ROTFL::wtf::ROTFL: so that's be a good time for the shootout.

Stay tuned!

Don
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I've decided to table my plans for conversion for awhile. I get this bug at least once every 12 months so I'll be back at it soon enough. In the meantime however I went to Singh Ray and pickup up a better (I hope) IR filter that I hope to have for my Grand Canyon trip in 3 weeks. I also hope to have examples from that trip to share.

The IR spark is still there I just need to rethink priorities.

Don
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Don,

One issue with trying to use an IR pass filter over a conventional DB is most of them already have IR cut filters in place. Meaning, that if you are lucky your back limits everything over 770nm, and the filter only allows over say 720, so anything in the 720nm to 770nm range can be captured... However if the cut filter on the back is 720, then you are basically screwed, since together they block all light...
 
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