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Thread: EIZO or Quato?

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    EIZO or Quato?

    I need a decent monitor. After a bit of search, I have narrowed it down to two brands- Quato and EIZO.

    Quato basically has 3 types. The "proof" monitors appears to fit my bill as I really do not need a wide gamut monitor at the moment.

    EIZO appears to have more of a variety, though, the high end ones also fall into 3 types as in Quato.

    Would one brand be considered more attractive over the other?

    Any user experiences? Any particular specifications that I should look for?

    Thanks in advance!

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I have not heard of Quato, but I have had an Eizo CG-210 for a few years. It has been absolutely trouble free that entire time. It is so nice to work with, and the colors are much much better than the Apple Cinema Display I was using beforehand. The 5 year warranty is also excellent. The hardware based calibration is easy and accurate, it comes with a nice monitor hood, rotates to portrait and automatically switches with a hardware based conversion. All in all I have had zero complaints and have been completely satisfied for several years. They have earned my loyalty.

    In terms of specifications to look for, apart from the gamut I would say look at how they work with calibration tools. Do they have their own profiling software? How accurate is it? I am not sure how gamut and color accuracy are represented in the specs, but I would not worry as much about the contrast ratios or luminance, since you will generally want to be operating it at 100-130cd/m2 and a contrast ratio of 250:1. These allow it to match the paper well. Getting contrastier or brighter just makes it less accurate in its representation of what the print will look like.

    Beyond the display specs, I would find out what the warranty is like and how many hours it is valid for. How flexible is it as a monitor? Does it have adjustments for viewing angle, using it in different orientations or easy computer connections for your keyboard, mouse and calibration tool? I would also consider calling Chromix and talking to them -- they are dedicated color management professionals and will be able to give much better advice than most other dealers. They do not sell Quato, but they would probably give you honest comments about them. My impression is that they are very straight shooters. They sell Eizo, LaCie, NEC, HP and Samsung.
    Last edited by Stuart Richardson; 27th July 2009 at 12:11.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I second everything Stuart has said. In fact, I bought my Eizo through Chromix too. It's the best monitor I've ever worked with and heads and shoulders above the Sony Artisan I had before. Solid and accurate, the work I do for a living (design) goes off to the press and returns as offset printed material that comes as close as possible (I believe) to what I expected to see based on the color on the Eizo. Same experience with printing photos to my Epson 3800. Highly recommended.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Thank you both for your replies.

    Stuart,

    Currently, Quato Intelli proof monitors are sold bundled with the hood, calibration software (Silver Haze Pro) and calorimeter in some stores (Germany). Warranty is 3-5 years. Ergonomics (stand, viewing angle) comparable to EIZO.

    Quato: http://www.quato.de/english/products.php

    Good point on the the contrast. Thanks. It reinforces what I understood.

    Eizo CG are their wide gamut monitors, aren't they?

    There is a considerable price difference between the EIZO and Quato monitors, depending on where you shop.

    I have given up on the NEC type monitors.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    The Eizo CG monitors are extended gamut compared to most monitors, but not all are full Adobe RGB. Only the CG221 displays all of Adobe RGB, as far as I know. Some of the CG models are more affordable than others. The CG-211 is 2225 after a 700+ rebate at Chromix, by contrast, the CG221 with the extra wide gamut is 4749 after rebate. I am not sure what the comparable Quato's cost, since as I mentioned, I have not heard of them until now. It really depends on how much you are setting out to spend. I think 2225 is worth it for the CG-211, and that is close to what I spent for the CG-210 a few years ago. I would love to have the full Adobe RGB of the 221, but that is a heck of a lot of money for a monitor.

    But I really don't know how to guide you in Eizo versus Quato. I can only give you one-sided information. But like Tim said, the thing just does its job perfectly and has not made me think about needing another monitor for the entire time that I have owned it. They will pry it from my cold dead hands.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Stuart, The Adobe RGB monitors (both Quato and EIZO) are indeed very pricey.

    The difference in price between Quato and similar (for example the older CG-210) EIZO is > 1,000 Euros since the color calibration software and hardware for EIZO have to bought separately.

    I am going mull this over a bit and take a look the two brands in person before making a final decision.

    I greatly appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Actually Vivek, you only need to buy the color calibration hardware for the Eizo. They come with ColorNavigator, which is their own profiling software. It is only good for profiling their monitors though, so if you want software for profiling papers and so on, you would need to buy that separately. If the price difference is indeed that great, than I do highly recommend checking them out in person (both of them). If you can, try to bring a difficult RAW file in a wide gamut color space to see how they differ. If you can see both of them side by side, that would be best of all.

    Regardless of which one you choose, I think you will be surprised at how much of a difference a good display will make. It's like all of your photos suddenly became more lifelike.
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  8. #8
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Another satisfied purchaser of an Eizo via Chromix.

    When I bought mine the Eizo that displays 100% Adobe RGB was very expensive.

    I bought the Eizo that displays 96% of the Adobe RGB (CG241W) -- 2/5 the price ... or at least it used to be.

    The heartbreak came when I was told it would now cost $100+ to take it with me on the plane, each way. Now fees for luggage, etc. So now it sits in Calif and ways for my occasional return trips.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    as far as I have seen them and heard about them the Quatos are basically a bit more accurate especially in dark tonalvalues. Too, luminance and colour shift is better controlled on the Quatos - the displays are more even. They all use IPS panels whilst the Eizos (except the Top Model CG210) use PVA panels.
    That having said I use a CG241W and after more than 6000 hours of use it still holds maximum luminance level and maximum gamut quite well (lost about 400 candula luminance level and is about 200K warmer in preset). Luminance and colour shift is still more than acceptable. Calibrated with Color Navigator and a good calibration device you'll be able to adjust the display very very close to your prints eyed up in a D50 (or whatever you prefer) viewing box.
    If - for whatever reason - you'd like to calibrate to L* you should go for a Quato. The Eizos are calibrated to Gamma 2.2. ex factory and even with the high bit internal LUT they don't "like" it very much, if the TRC is "screwed" to L*. But Gamma 2.2 and Gamma 1.8 (or any "Gamma") work perfectly with the Eizos.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I'm still shocked that Eizo is the only company offering a real 30'' display. I whish there were more options.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I'm still shocked that Eizo is the only company offering a real 30'' display. I whish there were more options.
    30'' displays with current panel technology are bigger, but inferior regarding uniformity (both luminosity and colour). Might change with LED backlight (or any other future technology).

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Thomas, Thanks a bunch for your information!

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I'm still shocked that Eizo is the only company offering a real 30'' display. I whish there were more options.
    There is. It's called NEC Spectraview in 26" and 30" models. As good if not better than EIZO.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I have an Eizo ColorEdge CG21. "ColorEdge" line means it is the pro level series. "CG" does not mean AdobeRGB gamut however. The monitors are specified in the description whether it is an AdobeRGB capable display.

    It is a great display, and rated for quite a long lifespan. I bought it back when there were only a handful of good LCDs to choose from. People were still steered towards the Sony Artisan for critical use.

    Today, Eizo's appear pricey by comparison, and others have caught up. The better money seems to indicate the NEC SpectraView series is equally capable and they are quite less in price. NEC SpectraView monitors are NEC's flagship MultiSync monitors bundled with NEC SpectraView calibration software and a dedicated colorimeter. The dedicated colorimeter is a customized GMB i1 Display device with special filters added for use with their AdobeRGB displays.

    NEC has both 26" and 30" models, and both are available only as AdobeRGB models.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Ditto that you should consider the new NEC's... Basically the same ARGB gamut as the Eizo and half the price -- 30" (3090) is ~~ $2500 WITH a calibration tool. Of course they have a 24" version for less money.

    FWIW, the 30" is my next monitor: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/NEC/LCD3090WBKSV/
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I wish NEC offered an sRGB version of the 30". Probably be cheaper, and I am used to my sRGB capable monitor anyway. I have heard that the AdobeRGB units have a bit of a different 'look' when compared to conventional gamut displays. Anyone able to elaborate on that?

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    They are only different when viewing images in a fully color-managed environment, save for some saturation differences in sRGB. In a CM environ, it's pretty similar to viewing on your sRGB monitor in proof mode.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    The word on the street (or at least Chromix, who sells both NEC and Eizo) is that while the NEC's are fantastic out of the box, they really only have a usable life of 2 years. After 18 months they start shifting colors, and after 2 years they rapidly increase. I don't know if that is true, but that is what Chromix said, and they are really knowledgeable people who sell both.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    That's interesting to read, but I wonder about the NEC 4 year warranty? I can't believe they would be selling something knowing it will have to be repaired or replaced?

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I have to agree JL -- I've never heard it before and that line sounds suspiciously like a slick salesman's line designed to sell more Eizo's...
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjlphoto View Post
    I have heard that the AdobeRGB units have a bit of a different 'look' when compared to conventional gamut displays. Anyone able to elaborate on that?
    That's true. Wide Gamut Displays are much more sensible to cyan and magenta "cast" due to the higher saturated primary colours. This is why the conventional white point targets do not work for wide gamut displays unless the calibration software provides correction tables.
    For example: my CG241W is calibrated to something close to 5400K with Eizos "Color Navigator" (with correction tables). When I measure the white point with the same measurement device with the software "BasICColor Display 4" the measured white point is around 5000K. When I measure the white point with Quatos software "IColor Display" set to preset "LCD display" the measured white point is again around 5000K. When I set the Quato software to the preset of one of Quatos wide gamut displays the measured white point is 5800K.
    This is why it is essential to use either the manufacturers calibration software for wide gamut displays or to use a spectrometer (which is the worse alternative in this particular case).
    The white point thing regarding wide gamut displays is discussed in one of Eizos "white papers" that you should find on their website.
    Further in a non color managed workflow wide gamut displays show sRGB files oversaturated. A thorough color managed workflow - even for the web browser - is a must with wide gamut displays.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I have to agree JL -- I've never heard it before and that line sounds suspiciously like a slick salesman's line designed to sell more Eizo's...
    I REALLY did not get that impression from him, and I think have a pretty good read on these things. He recommended the NEC very highly and said it is a superb monitor with great specs. He said it worked extremely well, but that they did not have the long term stability of the Eizo monitors. It is not that they magically stop working, it is that their response beings to drift earlier, and if you want to stay on top of it, you need to calibrate much more regularly. He said that for color critical work in a professional environment, he would recommend replacing them after 2 years, where he felt Eizo's were generally good for four. Obviously he could be lying, but that seems really unlikely to me. Even if he is wrong, he pretty clearly believed what he was saying.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    I heard the same about the NECs...
    Too, the NECs might have problems with too low luminance level. Maybe not all models (for sure not the 21'' SV Reference) but at least you should check. E.g. the 26'' WUXi is hard to set lower than 140cd/qm with accurate results.

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Since we were talking about longevity, I just contacted the Eizo tech rep about my Eizo ColorEdge CG21. Bear in mind that I bought my Eizo in 2004. Here is his reply:

    .....The Cg21 is a workhorse. The Monitor has a 30,000 usage time (in theory, this would mean the half-life of the backlight). Keeping it turned off is best, especially making sure the backlight is not on......You should be able to use into 20,000 no problem.....

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjlphoto View Post
    I have an Eizo ColorEdge CG21. "ColorEdge" line means it is the pro level series. "CG" does not mean AdobeRGB gamut however. The monitors are specified in the description whether it is an AdobeRGB capable display.

    It is a great display, and rated for quite a long lifespan. I bought it back when there were only a handful of good LCDs to choose from. People were still steered towards the Sony Artisan for critical use.

    Today, Eizo's appear pricey by comparison, and others have caught up. The better money seems to indicate the NEC SpectraView series is equally capable and they are quite less in price. NEC SpectraView monitors are NEC's flagship MultiSync monitors bundled with NEC SpectraView calibration software and a dedicated colorimeter. The dedicated colorimeter is a customized GMB i1 Display device with special filters added for use with their AdobeRGB displays.

    NEC has both 26" and 30" models, and both are available only as AdobeRGB models.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Thanks Woody!

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Folks, a quick note. A Quato is on its way to me.

    5 year warranty (currently applies only to Germany, Austria and Switzerland but Quato said they will honor it (Netherlands) when I approach them with the German dealer's receipt).

    S-IPS panel and with a great colorimeter package. I am so looking forward to this.

    I appreciate all the discussion here (particular from Stuart, a big Thank you!) that broadened my understanding and sharpened my requirements (Thomas, Thanks again!).

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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Congratulations Vivek! Please let us know how it works for you. I don't think there are too many on the English speaking boards who have Quato's, so it will be nice to hear some experiences.
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    Re: EIZO or Quato?

    Thank you, Stuart.

    The monitor is plugged in now (I will have to upgrade my antique computer).

    In a few weeks, after I have gone through a few tests and prints, I will post my experience here.

    At the moment, it is very good.

    Straight off, I can say that Quato will not be appealing to most. For starters, they sent one printed (looks like it was printed of a desk jet):

    "Kurzanleitung" (English: "brief instructions") in German though the very page is available in their website in English as well. The whole hardware was packed very well but very concisely.

    Rest is all in PDF format and what a horrible thing that is! They just took a few powerpoint presentation (if you have heard an average German giving a lecture using power point, you would know how exciting that would be)!

    Since I am familiar with German (not just the language), I think I can work through it all and get my set up going in a few weeks.

    Overall, for me, at this stage, it is an excellent purchase.

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