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Thread: Lightroom 3 Beta

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    Lightroom 3 Beta

    Adobe released the new beta version of Lightroom 3. I am on my iPhone and posting the link is a bit of a pain so, you can find the info on Adobe's site. The beta expires next April.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    There's also a small preview of it on LL.
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...r-3-beta.shtml which also has the dl link.

    I've done the betas from the beginning and by the time the actual version ships, you are pretty well on your way to having it under control--plus, they have surprised us with 'extras' after the beta--like the gradient and brush tool. There are already complaints because the print module doesn't offer softproofing---they've really spiced up the print module so I'm betting softproof wil show up next April.

    Diane

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Michael Reichmann's preliminary review indicated that Adobe is rewriting the raw processing engine. Raw conversion IQ seems to be the most serious objection most photographers have to the program. IQ wise, this is a really interesting development.

    Paul

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    There are several mini-reviews starting to come out on LR3 beta, so we should be getting a better idea of where things are headed. The changes to the processing algorithms is an interesting start. That could have a lot of promise. They are fighting the constant battle of speed and power. To get some of the better processing options, it needs horsepower. But that can cut into the desire to get things posted and done faster by some. Tough balancing act, as not all buyers of this kind of software are going to be using the latest and greatest speed demon machines in most cases, so Adobe sort of has to take that into account.

    Also, some of the newer things in the beta appear to be very interesting for print layouts and noise reduction.

    Here is another brief review that touches upon some perspectives:

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10380947-264.html

    LJ

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Kerfoot View Post
    Michael Reichmann's preliminary review indicated that Adobe is rewriting the raw processing engine. Raw conversion IQ seems to be the most serious objection most photographers have to the program. IQ wise, this is a really interesting development.

    Paul
    That interests me a lot. Before Lightroom, I generally used C1 and an older RC (RSP--the developer sold to Adobe about the time LR came out and works there in development) for processing, but since I don't shoot commercially any longer, I can compromise a bit--and generally get the colors the way I choose in LR. When they added the profiles for the Canons it was a plus in my book--even though I generally still stuck with neutral (other times, it was quicker to get reds or greens 'right' to use one of the 5D profiles).

    I've just installed beta 3.0 so I'll see for myself, but know that its not 'finished' as there will be lots of time to have input into the final.
    Last edited by Diane B; 22nd October 2009 at 07:35.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    I'm seeing a significant improvement in image quality. Especially with regards to sharpening. In the past Lightroom had really ugly transitions at the edges where it tried to smooth things too much causing what some refer to as a wormy effect. Now with LR 3 the transitions are much cleaner and detailed. Also seeing a reduction in color fringing - note the spark guard on the chimney. Here's the same file converted with the same settings in LR 2 and LR 3 at 200% to highlight the differences:

    LR2 at 200%:


    LR3 at 200%:

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Also, the high ISO noise handling is much much better. Much less clumpy and improved chroma noise reduction. Here is a 200% set of crops again at 3200 ISO on a 7D. This is with Color NR set to 25 on both.

    LR2 at 200%:


    LR3 at 200%:

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    I wonder how different it will be when they add luminosity slider--the chroma looks much better.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Oh!
    I've just downloaded it, and started importing this months photos.

    A superficial look at the M9 presets look extremely helpful. The printing looks interesting. GF1 and A900 files look great.

    Apple are going to have to come up with something rather fast to stop me changing.

    And if I'm changing then there will be an awful lot of others. coming too!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Downloaded and installed onto Windoze. So it choked on import and went to 'not responding', and didn't want to be closed. Still hasn't managed to import all the files in a particular folder.

    But, despite what it says, if you have tried noise reduction in LR2.x -- and write this to xmp -- then both denoise sliders work -- very well.

    And -- I only found it once in Preferences -- you have the option to have commas or spaces as keyword separators -- and put a keyword which has a space into quotes -- this on reopening has disappeared.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    downloaded and tried it on Macbook pro... and am utterly underwhelmed...speed is nothing to write home about...( despite the fact it said it was 64 bit on my snow leopard machine)
    OK so I am an Aperture user... and i know it has faults... but i find the Lightroom interface very confusing.... and the space allocated to me to see my photo is very small... even in one of their multitude of views that shows a little more.

    More i look at it the more i hate the interface... can only see one set of controls at a time... the sliders seem even more unresponsive than Aperture. Everyhing just seems to take up too much space

    As for the new import panel... well I just gave up trying to understand that.

    Web and slideshow stuff... whatever... the only area i really like lightroom is the printing module... can make no comment on the printed quality but the layout options look cool.

    your mileage may vary.... but despite its faults Aperture still is the king of the complete workflow application

    Do hope we see an Aperture 3... because i dont know if i could learn to live with Lightroom

    K

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    I really wanted to like it. I even have some experience with it so it's not completely foreign. But I just don't. It might be that the defaults need a lot of tweaking, but my stuff just looks better to me out of C1. I'm considering using it strictly for keeping an organized catalog of .tifs that I've processed elsewhere.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post

    can only see one set of controls at a time... the sliders seem even more unresponsive than Aperture. Everyhing just seems to take up too much space

    .... but despite its faults Aperture still is the king of the complete workflow application

    K
    one set of controls seems like you have it set up wrong....

    ....only king of the workflow if it actually supports the cameras you use which for me has been an abysmal failure over its lifetime.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    I'll download and play with it on my new MacBookPro. You certainly can see more than one set of controls at a time. While the UI isn't as clean as Aperture, Aperture DOESN'T SUPPORT MY CAMERAS. I've owned my DLux4 for how long?

    I am hesitant to switch, but I'm really tired of being limited in what I can shoot. Yes, workflow within Aperture is very nice. BUT, if I shoot raw with the DLux4, I am forced into another completely different workflow. That means that the *real* Aperture workflow is worse than it seems. I'm switching machines right now, and have archived the last 5 years of images. Now is the time to jump and I'm about ready to do so...

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    I'll download and play with it on my new MacBookPro. You certainly can see more than one set of controls at a time. While the UI isn't as clean as Aperture, Aperture DOESN'T SUPPORT MY CAMERAS. I've owned my DLux4 for how long?

    I am hesitant to switch, but I'm really tired of being limited in what I can shoot. Yes, workflow within Aperture is very nice. BUT, if I shoot raw with the DLux4, I am forced into another completely different workflow. That means that the *real* Aperture workflow is worse than it seems. I'm switching machines right now, and have archived the last 5 years of images. Now is the time to jump and I'm about ready to do so...
    HI Todd
    I'm half way between you and Kevin.
    I'd really rather stay with Aperture (I've just been playing with the print module in LR3, it worked wonderfully . . . but the prints were horrible!).

    On the other hand, I have four cameras, and the only one that Aperture supports fully is the A900 . . .that's kind of irritating!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Todd
    I'm half way between you and Kevin.
    I'd really rather stay with Aperture (I've just been playing with the print module in LR3, it worked wonderfully . . . but the prints were horrible!).

    On the other hand, I have four cameras, and the only one that Aperture supports fully is the A900 . . .that's kind of irritating!
    Of course if the output sucks then it is of little use. But I find limited camera support beyond irritating. I have a software tool forcing me to make a choice between adding another workflow or just shooting jpg. I now have 5 different photo apps installed - Aperture, LR (trial), Raw Developer, C1 (from the Leica), and DPP (Canon). If I want to shoot raw (including the sRaw for Canon), I need to use at least three different programs. And that is owning only two cameras!

    I suppose I only have myself to blame for getting dependent the ease of use of Aperture. I let it organize my imports and works as my DAM. Well, unless I want raw files from the Leica or sRaw from the Canon, both of which require other applications. Perhaps the solution is to go full manual with the asset management, importing manually, storing manually, and then doing raw developing as needed. But that seems ridiculous in 2009...

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    one set of controls seems like you have it set up wrong....

    ....only king of the workflow if it actually supports the cameras you use which for me has been an abysmal failure over its lifetime.
    All my controls work except for luminosity slider in NR. Import was as usual only a bit faster I thought (just imported this month's folders). I feel that moving from module to module is somewhat faster and I haven't had any issues with any tools being slow. The bummer for me is that I can't open the Print module. I've reported it and done what the one person said, but it didn't work. One of the suggestions was to create a new catalog so I'll try that. There are some great new options I'd like to try in printing.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Perhaps the solution is to go full manual with the asset management, importing manually, storing manually, and then doing raw developing as needed. But that seems ridiculous in 2009...
    That's exactly what I do and I love it! I hate when a software app. controls my files. For me, all image files are copied to my Mac at the Finder level. Backups are made, and then the fun begins... from any app I wish. Yum.

    Everyone works differently, but I don't wish to see any app. require importation or file control beyond my application-agnostic approach. I feel it breeds too many problems down the road as one makes changes to one's workflow or output requirements.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Jono, make sure your not double profiling. I print from LR 2 some and my prints are good. They look horrible if I double profile. I haven't tried LR 3 yet.
    Mike

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Man, that really is a dramatic difference, isn't it!
    Just getting into Lightroom and I really like it. Bring on the final release, I say!
    Tim

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Seitz View Post
    I'm seeing a significant improvement in image quality. Especially with regards to sharpening. In the past Lightroom had really ugly transitions at the edges where it tried to smooth things too much causing what some refer to as a wormy effect. Now with LR 3 the transitions are much cleaner and detailed. Also seeing a reduction in color fringing - note the spark guard on the chimney. Here's the same file converted with the same settings in LR 2 and LR 3 at 200% to highlight the differences:

    LR2 at 200%:


    LR3 at 200%:

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Jono, make sure your not double profiling. I print from LR 2 some and my prints are good. They look horrible if I double profile. I haven't tried LR 3 yet.
    Mwalker, what do you mean with double profiling?

    Jan R.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    All my controls work except for luminosity slider in NR...
    It does if you have worked on the files in Lr2 and saved the changes to .xmp.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    one set of controls seems like you have it set up wrong....

    ....only king of the workflow if it actually supports the cameras you use which for me has been an abysmal failure over its lifetime.
    Maybe i exaggerated a bit saying only one set of controls was visible... what I was trying to say was that from a standard install on a 15" powerbook that the interface to me used up far too much of my screen real estate - especially compared to Aperture.

    I agree the camera support issue is a biggy.... maybe its a subtle ploy by Apple to divert your gearlust dollars away from buying cameras to buying shiny new computers :-)

    cheers

    K

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Even full screen - 24 inches -- not all controls are visible.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by JanRSmit View Post
    Mwalker, what do you mean with double profiling?

    Jan R.
    Jan, normally "double profiling" refers to applying a print profile in your processing software as well as allowing your printer driver apply attributes – something you don't want. In other words, I normally print from Photoshop and direct Photoshop to control colors via the chosen profile. I must be sure that the printer is not also applying colorsync attributes or any other driver based controls (one normally choses "none" from the color options in the printer driver dialogue). You want only one profile to be at work on your print.

    HTH,

    Dale

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    It does if you have worked on the files in Lr2 and saved the changes to .xmp.
    Robert, I'm not understanding--perhaps you could explain further. I'm not working on the same files that I processed in LR2.5. These are 'new' files (or copied files to a new folder and imported from where they are on my drive). So--none have ever been touched by LR 2.5. Is that what I'm understanding--they would first have to have been imported to 2.5 with .xmp changes--and then imported to 3.0??

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    Maybe i exaggerated a bit saying only one set of controls was visible... what I was trying to say was that from a standard install on a 15" powerbook that the interface to me used up far too much of my screen real estate - especially compared to Aperture.

    Hit Shift+TAB and you'll have all your screen real estate available. Just mouse over to the edges to temporarily bring back that panel and hit the little triangle thingy to have it stay open.

    Also a couple of shortcut keys are really handy. Hit D to get to the develop module for the selected photo, and hit G to go back to the grid view. D, G, and the Shift+TAB are the keys to happiness in Lightroom.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Robert, I'm not understanding--perhaps you could explain further. I'm not working on the same files that I processed in LR2.5. These are 'new' files (or copied files to a new folder and imported from where they are on my drive). So--none have ever been touched by LR 2.5. Is that what I'm understanding--they would first have to have been imported to 2.5 with .xmp changes--and then imported to 3.0??
    If you are seeing the luminance slider active you are in compatibility mode and not using the new processing engine. If you have a file that's been edited in a previous version with its corresponding XMP file the default in LR 3 is to treat it with the original processing engine. You can switch to the new engine by clicking the little warning triangle icon that shows up in the Histogram panel in develop mode. Once you do that your luminance slider will deactivate.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Seitz View Post
    If you are seeing the luminance slider active you are in compatibility mode and not using the new processing engine. If you have a file that's been edited in a previous version with its corresponding XMP file the default in LR 3 is to treat it with the original processing engine. You can switch to the new engine by clicking the little warning triangle icon that shows up in the Histogram panel in develop mode. Once you do that your luminance slider will deactivate.
    HI Greg
    you mean the luminance slider in noise reduction, not under HSL don't you (I think it needs clarifying!).

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Greg
    you mean the luminance slider in noise reduction, not under HSL don't you (I think it needs clarifying!).
    Good point - talking about noise reduction here.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by JanRSmit View Post
    Mwalker, what do you mean with double profiling?

    Jan R.

    What Dale said
    Mike

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Seitz View Post
    If you are seeing the luminance slider active you are in compatibility mode and not using the new processing engine. If you have a file that's been edited in a previous version with its corresponding XMP file the default in LR 3 is to treat it with the original processing engine. You can switch to the new engine by clicking the little warning triangle icon that shows up in the Histogram panel in develop mode. Once you do that your luminance slider will deactivate.
    Ah, you are quite right -- the warning triangle is so small I hadn't seen it -- RTFM I suppose. I didn't realise there was a compatibility mode.

    Sorry for the confusion, thanks for the clarification.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Robert, I'm not understanding--perhaps you could explain further. I'm not working on the same files that I processed in LR2.5. These are 'new' files (or copied files to a new folder and imported from where they are on my drive). So--none have ever been touched by LR 2.5. Is that what I'm understanding--they would first have to have been imported to 2.5 with .xmp changes--and then imported to 3.0??
    Yes, but I was mistaken: if they were imported into LR2.5 with changes saved to xmp, and then imported into LR3, LR3 will go into compatibility mode -- see Greg's posts.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Thanks. I've uninstalled and reinstalled, opened a new catalog (import with files where they are)--still no print module--just the message
    7:0 attempt to index field 'value' (a nil value).
    Disappoointing to me because the print module is important to me and I'd like to evaluate the new options. Ce la vie----all my previous betas have had 'issues'--the point for having a public beta LOL--so it will be addressed. I don't have anything 'exotic'--just an XP Pro machine built for photo editing--and it handles LR 2.5 easily, so I'll just 'play' with the library and develop modules until this can be resolved. I've reposted in Adobe beta forum stating that I've reinstalled, tried a different catalog--and hope someone else has something I can try on my end.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Diane

    Are you on a Mac or P.C.? Could be a possible cause. I am on a Mac and all the modules show and seem to work the way I would expect.

    Woody

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Woody, I'm on a PC and on the beta forum no one else seems to have this problem. My LR 2.5 works perfectly. I keep thinking it may be something on my end. All my other modules work just fine--strange---well, nothing is strange in a beta LOL.

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    some people over on the "other" forum were saying the new M9 profile in LR3 is great: I don't have an M9- but was wondering if anyone has an opinion on the included profile for the M8- is it better, same, worse?

    I've downloaded the beta but can't run it because I am on Powerpc still. But you can get to the profiles in the package. Was wondering if I could bodge the new profile into Lr2, assuming it is better.

    Went and looked at a new iMac today, guess that is the jobless recovery upgrade option for my aging G5 tower. A new tower is priced way out of the question....

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    How do you call up the profile? When I imported some A900 files under camera calibration I had two choices, "standard" and "ACR 4.6". Where do you pick the profiles?
    Mike

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    Re: Lightroom 3 Beta

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    How do you call up the profile? When I imported some A900 files under camera calibration I had two choices, "standard" and "ACR 4.6". Where do you pick the profiles?
    -thats where. they are under the calibration tab you found. different cameras will have different possibilities. sometime you have adobe standard, and camera standard, which mimics the default jpeg look the manufacturer has. canons have Lr profiles mimicking the different looks, standard, neutral, portrait, faithful, etc.

    re the A900, there may only be a couple choices anyway.

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