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Thread: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

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    Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    HI There
    I'm 'evaluating' LR3 beta, having finally got fed up with the lack of camera support in Aperture (still love the 'conversion', interface and facilities, so LR3 is going to have to be good).

    I don't really understand about camera profiles - perhaps some clever person can clarify

    I'm not sure how to get (or use) the M9 profile for LR3 beta. I've been using Aperture for a long time, but I'm considering changing.

    I guess it's under 'Camera Calibration' in the Develop module - with an M9 file mine gives two options of profile:

    Embedded
    Adobe Standard

    What do these actually mean?

    My A900 files on the other hand show:
    ACR 4.6
    Adobe Standard.

    Whereas GF1 files show:
    Adobe Standard

    Maybe, of course, I'm looking in quite the wrong place anyway!

    I'd be really grateful for any pointers, an explanation as to what each of these actually means, and any explanation as to how to get proper support for the M9 (if I haven't already got it!)
    Last edited by jonoslack; 25th October 2009 at 04:32.

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Jono

    My understanding -- which is likely incomplete -- is this:

    Canon files have the choice of Adobe Standard; and Camera Faithfull, Camera Landscape, Camera Neutral, Camera Portrait and Camera Standard.

    The Camera xxx profiles are an attempt by Adobe to replicate the development that would otherwise occur in jpg files when the camera is set to this, or the development in Canon's raw converter [DPP]. Quite why there is a difference between Adobe Standard and camera standard isn't clear to me.

    Nikon users have a similar choice of profiles.

    Other cameras aren't so well served; often there is only Adobe Standard. Embedded suggests it's either a dng or a jpg file -- I don't know why dng are 'embedded'. I don't have an M9, but I would guess that you have all the support that Adobe offers at present -- otherwise you would get a warning that the file couldn't be converted.

    Adobe has a curious numbering convention for it's raw converters. ACR 4.6 means that the A900 was first covered in release 4.6 [I think] -- even if we are at 5.5 now -- the profiles for any given camera aren't necessarily 'improved' with later releases, though this can happen, and you can have a choice of, say, 3.x and 4.x which does mean 'improvements'.

    The GF1 is covered, but there is only a 'standard' conversion.

    Standard seems to mean something like 'this is how Adobe thinks the files should be converted'.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Robert, that's how I've understood it also. With my Canons I can choose the Picture Styles as you mentioned for profiles (the Canon folks asked for a good while for profiles like those in Canon's DPP--and when Eric Chan came on board at Adobe, he worked on those and Nikons--they are quite good as mimics--but in the end, I still choose 'neutral' for my jumping off place for processing--it actually IS one of the mimics though).

    It comes down to--the squeaky wheels get the grease--but you can still create your own personal profile for your camera in dng profile creator. Reading MRs (at LL) I get the impression that Adobe feels its improved processing and there are better profiles for the newer cameras (some). I'm sure that's so---each version from 1.0 has been substantially better than the previous version.

    Diane

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    If I convert Canon CR2 files to dng, all the Picture Styles as Profiles are present -- there is no 'embedded' variety -- this may only happen in cameras who offer dng as a raw file -- and if so, I don't know why.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Ah--that may be so. I don't convert to dng. I maybe be sorry in the future, but for now, I'm not. However, as I understand it, to create a new camera profile, you have to use the dng profile creator--which I never have. There used to be a kludgier way to create a new profile--welll, actually calibrating your camera and saving as preset. For now--I can live with the generic profiles for the Panny's. I do use 'neutral' for my 5D and other Canons.

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Diane, Robert; thank you so much!

    I think I understand it. I guess that 'embedded' means the basic DNG support (so you would only get it if the raw file you are looking at IS a dng file (which is the case with the M9). 'Adobe Standard' is their take on the right colours for the camera . . . and the M9 is actually really good.

    I've been trying some printing today (sorry Diane). With LR 2 I really didn't think it was as good as with Aperture, so I have to do some tests.

    Thanks again

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    I am using the R9/DMR and have used the M8 with LR 2 and now have started the 3 beta. In the past I have used Aperature and C1 versions also. When using these .dng cameras you only get the embedded profile feature. What I found makes the big difference is to profile your individual camera by shooting a color checker and optimizing it to your camera and saving this profile. Do one for daylight and another for tungsten for each camera . In Lightroom two there was a plug-in from another developer that created the profiles. In the latest versions of Lightroom you can create your own profiles. I would recommend buying the instructional videos from Luminous Landscapes web site (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/) for a faster learning curve cycle. The cost is only $39.95 for 7.5 hours of specific instruction that you can dowload for quick use. I shoot in B+W so have also added Silver Efex Pro plugin. The adjustment brush for selective image adjustments are fantastic.

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Since DNG is the Leica native format I used the dng profile creator, shot an Xrite GMB color chart and created a profile for my M8.2 and it works just fine. Very different from Adobe's M8 profile. I would be interested to see if there is as much of a difference (especially in the blues) with the M9.

    Mark

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I've been trying some printing today (sorry Diane). With LR 2 I really didn't think it was as good as with Aperture, so I have to do some tests.

    Thanks again
    Jono,

    I used to print from PS and Qimage. With one of the 2.0 versions they added a sharpening algorithm very similar to PKS (which I used in PS)--no surprise since Jeff Schewe works with them on it. Using paper profiles, setting up presets for paper sizes, profiles, etc., etc.,---and--I now print only from LR. They've done more so that's why I'm anxious to try it. I'm going away on a trip tomorrow--but I will load the LR 3.0 beta on my Vista (UGH!!) laptop and see what the print module looks like. Haven't had time to do it yet. I've been getting some help from Adobe lab folks, but so far--no solution. I have one more that I don't have time to try.

    Good luck with the printing.

    Diane

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    When you load LR3 beta you get the new M9 profile added to your list of available profiles(shows up in the camera calibration area). My first tests show that it greatly improves the rendering form LR2 but is almost perfect coming out of LR3.

    I think LR3 may start to give C1 a run for the money on M9 files. But then C1 will have version 5 soon.

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Jono -
    Adobe updated their processing on some cameras as the versions of ACR was released. standard is their current conversion. The ACR 4.6 was the conversion profile in place at the time that version of ACR was out.

    You can make your own profiles by shooting a color checker and using the DNG profiler (as talked about above).

    I have the new xrite passport that has a plug in for automatically creating profiles. It's currently got a couple of bugs to be worked out. I'll keep you posted.

    As a test take one of your old D3 files and bring it up. You will find a whole list of profiles that mimic what you would get using picture styles in capture NX. So, if you have settings you like better for landscape but hate for skin tones at weddings you can set up different profiles.

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    Re: Camera Profiles in LR3 beta

    Terry, Roger, Diane (and everyone else)
    Thank you for all the information.
    I've got LR3 printing nicely across my network to my old Epson 4000 printer. Unfortunately you can't modify the printer profiles when you're in 64 bit mode, but you CAN modify them in 32 bit and then use them in 64 bit.

    I'm still really really anguishing about the swap over from Aperture - I haven't made my mind up yet - but I certainly agree with Roger that the LR3 conversion for the M9 are very good . . . very very good! C1 is also good, but it's such a complication to my workflow that I wouldn't like to use it full time. I was hoping for DAM features and printing in version 5, but apparently not

    At least I'm getting to a familiarity with LR3 which is giving me information for making a proper decision.

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