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Thread: capture one is just an instable software

  1. #1
    Super Duper
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    Thumbs down capture one is just an instable software

    c1 vers. 4 I had to re-install because it wasnt possible to open it any more.
    now I have Vers. 5 test version and it crashes every 10 minutes. I need to restart the computer before being able to restart c1.

    sorry- I like the conversion-results but the stablility is bad IMO.
    Even the Sinar windows beta software seems more stable.

    I am also disappointed regarding MAC. The display and speed is good but I can not see any stability improvement over windows xp-pro.
    thats it.

  2. #2
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Sorry to hear about your problems. Both sound frustrating. It probably doesn't help much to know that my experience is exactly the opposite. Perhaps a call or email to tech support at both Phase One and Apple are in order.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Vers. 5 test version

    There is your issue right there . The beta version had crashes. It is very stable now as a real production version.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Vers. 5 test version

    There is your issue right there . The beta version had crashes. It is very stable now as a real production version.
    thanks Guy-I thought the test version is the same just without code.
    I do not yet have Snow Leopard. Could it improve stability?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    No there was like 4 versions of the beta until final release so that is more the issue it seems if you have a copy of that. Snow leopard should really not have much of a effect but it is designed with Snow in mind. To be honest I would upgrade to SL anyway . Which is real stable now
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    test or trial? if it is C1 test it sounds like a beta as Guy said. But if you downloaded a trial version, it should be stable, but you probably want to follow the proper uninstall procedure for 4.x as that has known issues for stability...
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    Senior Member Scargos2's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    I am using trial 5 from last week, the apple delete, to delete a picture was working and then stopped. now I have to go to file permanent delete, that up comes, do really want to delete from hard drive. What a pain in the---. The spot removal does not remove a very dark dust spot,very well,leaves some of the spot.
    Spot removal needs some work,needs a key stoke to open the spot removal tool and then close.
    Sunny Florida Rick of Fla

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Good point Jack . I am talking beta only here
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Scargos2 View Post
    I am using trial 5 from last week, the apple delete, to delete a picture was working and then stopped. now I have to go to file permanent delete, that up comes, do really want to delete from hard drive. What a pain in the---. The spot removal does not remove a very dark dust spot,very well,leaves some of the spot.
    Spot removal needs some work,needs a key stoke to open the spot removal tool and then close.
    They really should have called it a dust removal tool because that is ALL it will do . It acts more like a healing brush and not a clone out tool in PS. So actually it is working properly but it wants dust bunnies not spots. They actually need both tools and i suspect the next update will have it. It was on a beta than removed for final. Must have created a issue during beta and most likely they will tweak it and give it back. No promises though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    C1 5 Pro Upgraded version from 4, not free upgrade as stated but paid $99 for it, any way no issues here at all, works great and love it, using Mac platform, only issue I have is that when making adjustments the image becomes blurry for few instants, and is not comfy, not sure if this is an issue of my settings or not, just never had this i Aperture or on LR2.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Ketch, C1 image temporarily blurs as it's changing adjustments, and lets you know it's done when it snaps back to focus.
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Also Ketch may want to set your previews at like 1200 in the preference panel. i found that to be a good balance between speed and quality of preview.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    whatever is the de-convolution algorithm, Jack?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    whatever is the de-convolution algorithm, Jack?
    Simply stated, it is the mathematical function applied to the raw sensor data during raw conversion that determines exactly what the final processed color-value for each pixel should be.
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Simply stated, it is the mathematical function applied to the raw sensor data during raw conversion that determines exactly what the final processed color-value for each pixel should be.
    Or even more simply: the math that finds the itty bitty details in your file.

    Better deconvolution = Better and more natural detail

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    c1 vers. 4 I had to re-install because it wasnt possible to open it any more.
    now I have Vers. 5 test version and it crashes every 10 minutes. I need to restart the computer before being able to restart c1.

    sorry- I like the conversion-results but the stablility is bad IMO.
    Even the Sinar windows beta software seems more stable.

    I am also disappointed regarding MAC. The display and speed is good but I can not see any stability improvement over windows xp-pro.
    thats it.
    XP Pro is an OS from 2001. Using it is like time travel. Give your mac a few more months while you discover the neat modern features - plus the speed bump on similar software is enormous (something you could experience if you want to install XP as a second OS on your mac).

    Check to make sure you're running 10.6.2 (i.e. that you've applied all Software Updates).

    Check to make sure you followed our uninstall instructions to remove version 4 fully since you are now running version 5. Failure to do so is the #1 cause of instability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scargos2 View Post
    I am using trial 5 from last week, the apple delete, to delete a picture was working and then stopped. now I have to go to file permanent delete, that up comes, do really want to delete from hard drive. What a pain in the---. The spot removal does not remove a very dark dust spot,very well,leaves some of the spot.
    Spot removal needs some work,needs a key stoke to open the spot removal tool and then close.
    Sounds like you don't have a trash folder set. Go to your first tab (the folder icon) and see if you have a trash folder. OR simply start a new session (which would force the creation of a new trash folder).

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Super Duper
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    test or trial? if it is C1 test it sounds like a beta as Guy said. But if you downloaded a trial version, it should be stable, but you probably want to follow the proper uninstall procedure for 4.x as that has known issues for stability...
    sorry- I meant trial.

    However I just over-installed it so that may be the issue?

  18. #18
    Super Duper
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Thanks Doug,
    I will try to unistall propperly and reinstall - maybe it helps.


    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    XP Pro is an OS from 2001. Using it is like time travel. Give your mac a few more months while you discover the neat modern features - plus the speed bump on similar software is enormous (something you could experience if you want to install XP as a second OS on your mac).

    Check to make sure you're running 10.6.2 (i.e. that you've applied all Software Updates).

    Check to make sure you followed our uninstall instructions to remove version 4 fully since you are now running version 5. Failure to do so is the #1 cause of instability.



    Sounds like you don't have a trash folder set. Go to your first tab (the folder icon) and see if you have a trash folder. OR simply start a new session (which would force the creation of a new trash folder).

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    sorry- I meant trial.

    However I just over-installed it so that may be the issue?
    Very very likely.

    Like I said the vast majority of instability is caused by over-installing rather than a clean install.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Or even more simply: the math that finds the itty bitty details in your file.

    Better deconvolution = Better and more natural detail
    Well, "the math" is called RAW conversion :-)

    The part that fills in the missing colors of a pixel is called "demosaicing" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing).

    "De-convolution" is a technique that undoes a "convolution" - usually a blur. Ye olde Unsharp Mask is an example and more advanced techniques can be useful (correcting for lens artifacts is one example).

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by EsbenHR View Post
    Well, "the math" is called RAW conversion :-)

    The part that fills in the missing colors of a pixel is called "demosaicing" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing).

    "De-convolution" is a technique that undoes a "convolution" - usually a blur. Ye olde Unsharp Mask is an example and more advanced techniques can be useful (correcting for lens artifacts is one example).
    Sure. But I was trying to simplify for him. If you'd like I can reply with a few pages of technical mumbo jumbo but it didn't seem appropriate for the intended audience.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Sure. But I was trying to simplify for him. If you'd like I can reply with a few pages of technical mumbo jumbo but it didn't seem appropriate for the intended audience.
    Yeah, I got that. I just think "deconvolution" was an inappropriate term and "demosaicing" would be neither more nor less mumbo jumbo for actual real memers of our species.

    I have seen someone advertising "improved deconvolution" for CO5 compared with CO4 and not knowing what it meant. Now I assume demosaicing was the intended term.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    if anyone cares -- help me, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i'm running 10.5.8, did a clean install of the newest version.... after importing images, nothing showed up... i made sure to remove all Cols and, after a few stutters, everything has been smooth sailing.... very stable.

    i was given a chance today to test a pre-production camera (i.e., time critical) and so removed my previous sessions from my hard drive to make room for the new... everything says it imports but nothing appears (except for one -- seemingly a lucky fluke).

    i am at my wits end!

    that one image that survived (shot at 2500) has made me not want to be forced to use my other RAW processors. i need this working ASAP or i'm toast. the company is expecting them up!

    thank you....

  24. #24
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Forget importing them just download the files direct from the CF or SD card Cam than bring them in.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by EsbenHR View Post
    Yeah, I got that. I just think "deconvolution" was an inappropriate term and "demosaicing" would be neither more nor less mumbo jumbo for actual real memers of our species.

    I have seen someone advertising "improved deconvolution" for CO5 compared with CO4 and not knowing what it meant. Now I assume demosaicing was the intended term.
    No, deconvolution is the term. Without getting overly technical:

    Deconvolution enhances detail by applying an algorithm (a mathematical function) to the matrix of data to reconstruct original data that has been corrupted by (or more accurately "convolved" with) some other undesired data. In the case of digital imaging, that undesired data is usually noise of some sort. So the original data gets corrupted to varying degrees by noise and generates incorrect final values. The deconvolution algorithm is applied to the incorrect final value to back out the error caused by corrupter, renedering the correct value.

    Demosaicing is the process that generates an accurate color from incomplete original color data generated by the Bayer filter.

    So in a vast simplification, once you've demosaic'd, you have some reasonably accurate color along with varying degrees of corrupted color. You can now deconvolute that data to repair the corrupted data to more accurate and discrete pixel colors which will further enhance the image. The better your deconvolution algorithm is, the more discrete and accurate the color of each pixel is; the more discrete and accurate the color of each pixel is, the more fine detail you will be able to discern in your image.


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    Jack
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    looking up how to do that as we speak... (past 2 a.m. and i'm a bit delirious) and need to be up early to return camera.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    if anyone cares -- help me, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    i'm running 10.5.8, did a clean install of the newest version.... after importing images, nothing showed up... i made sure to remove all Cols and, after a few stutters, everything has been smooth sailing.... very stable.

    i was given a chance today to test a pre-production camera (i.e., time critical) and so removed my previous sessions from my hard drive to make room for the new... everything says it imports but nothing appears (except for one -- seemingly a lucky fluke).

    i am at my wits end!

    that one image that survived (shot at 2500) has made me not want to be forced to use my other RAW processors. i need this working ASAP or i'm toast. the company is expecting them up!

    thank you....

    Look in the default import folder located at: Users>username>pictures>CaptureOneLibrary
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    you guys must be magic because it behaved itself when i used your names... will look into your suggestion tomorrow (if i ever get sleep) to try and get to the root...

    whatever -- bless you! your mojo worked!

    xxx

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    No, deconvolution is the term. Without getting overly technical:
    No problem getting technical... I can follow you as far as you want to go :-)

    Deconvolution enhances detail by applying an algorithm (a mathematical function) to the matrix of data to reconstruct original data that has been corrupted by (or more accurately "convolved" with) some other undesired data. In the case of digital imaging, that undesired data is usually noise of some sort.
    OK, so this is the culprit. Actually, in my technical mind "convolution" is a well defined mathematical operation. In lay terms, and in nature, we usually have convolution = blur. In engineering, convolution can also sharpen.

    Demosaicing is the process that generates an accurate color from incomplete original color data generated by the Bayer filter.
    Yes.

    So in a vast simplification, once you've demosaic'd, you have some color along with some corrupted color, and you can then deconvolute that data to repair the corrupted data to more accurate and discrete pixel colors which will further enhance the image.
    I disagree on your use of the term deconvolution. Putting the tech-talk aside, am I correct that you find that CO5 renders details better than CO4?

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by EsbenHR View Post
    I disagree on your use of the term deconvolution.
    You are free to disagree with my definition and use of the term deonvolution, but I just typed it into Google and one of the first entries returned was this: "Deconvolution is the process of filtering a signal to compensate for an undesired convolution."

    Putting the tech-talk aside, am I correct that you find that CO5 renders details better than CO4?
    Yes, that is what *I* have found for both my Phase P45+ and Canon 1Ds3 files. I cannot speak to other cameras.
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    You are free to disagree with my definition and use of the term deonvolution, but I just typed it into Google and one of the first entries returned was this: "Deconvolution is the process of filtering a signal to compensate for an undesired convolution."
    Yes - but (simplified again) convolution = blur, so deconvolution is intended to undo a blur. This could fx be an Unsharp Mask (technically only threshold=0 qualifies as a convolution).

    This will, in fact, always increase noise, so we need noise reduction. To do noise reduction via convolution you need to blur. Pretty much what Lightroom used to do and what many DSLRs do when they process to JPEG :-)

    Yes, that is what *I* have found for both my Phase P45+ and Canon 1Ds3 files. I cannot speak to other cameras.
    Great. I was mostly trying to figure out what you meant and I did not get your terminology being such a techhead...

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    It behooves me that a thread about the stability of C1 can get so convoluted.....

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    I'm starting to have deconvolutions myself. Someone pass me the bottle of Vodka
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    after half a bottle of Vodka you should get a little convoluted (=blur) so that should be a good idea....

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Well, this is why I try to avoid the technical discussions

    Fact is, I am (actually was a long time ago) a mathematician. The term "convolve" is a very specific math term, which basically is a combination of functions. Deconvovlute is a reversal of a convolve, basically by dividing out by the convolve function to return to an original function. (And yes, I agree that the typical sharpening we do is a convolution function as it respects the original sensor data. As such, it is accurate to say it can deconvolute to some degree with certain settings, but I think it is more accurate to say the math applied during image sharpening is a convolution function acting on the original data to achieve a desired result.)

    However, all this to me is somewhat irrelevant as nowadays I'm a digital photographer. And in digital imaging, deconvolute has an established and accepted meaning as it respects raw digital file processing, so that's the definition I use
    Jack
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Ah,
    deconvolutions, just the sort of thing that I loved to get my teeth into when I was in school..
    We used to use fourier methods to deconvolve the spectrum of copper kalpha and kbeta xray radiation from the back-scatter signature from a rotating lithium crystal. I wish I had a computer as powerful as my mac back then.
    Anyway, when two functions are combined the result is a convolution.
    If one had the function of say, an AA filter, defined as a spatial function, then is is possible, to the extent that the defined function for the AA filter is accurate, and that information in the convolved function is not lost, to actually remove it.
    We have the situation now, where some AA filters produce effects more than just low pass, due to the fact that they are not just perfect low-pass filters, they have other optical properties.
    The theory is that those other optical properties can be removed from the image.
    Actually, in fourier space, it is not all that difficult, and there are a number of algorithms coming to the fore many using other techniques. So far, none are perfect, but that is due to the loss of information in a low pass that filters at a higher frequency than twice nyquist, and that the function describing the other optical properties are not perfectly defined for every camera.
    -bob

  37. #37
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    even I understood , I think .

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    I'm reaching for the second bottle. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Ah,
    deconvolutions, just the sort of thing that I loved to get my teeth into when I was in school..
    We used to use fourier methods to deconvolve the spectrum of copper kalpha and kbeta xray radiation from the back-scatter signature from a rotating lithium crystal. I wish I had a computer as powerful as my mac back then.
    Anyway, when two functions are combined the result is a convolution.
    If one had the function of say, an AA filter, defined as a spatial function, then is is possible, to the extent that the defined function for the AA filter is accurate, and that information in the convolved function is not lost, to actually remove it.
    We have the situation now, where some AA filters produce effects more than just low pass, due to the fact that they are not just perfect low-pass filters, they have other optical properties.
    The theory is that those other optical properties can be removed from the image.
    Actually, in fourier space, it is not all that difficult, and there are a number of algorithms coming to the fore many using other techniques. So far, none are perfect, but that is due to the loss of information in a low pass that filters at a higher frequency than twice nyquist, and that the function describing the other optical properties are not perfectly defined for every camera.
    -bob
    Perfect example of the lay definition of convoluted

  40. #40
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    This is piece of cake compared to just about anything that goes through congress, and I am referencing no bill in particular.
    -bob

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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    This is piece of cake compared to just about anything that goes through congress, and I am referencing no bill in particular.
    -bob
    that is probably the reason there so few (if any) mathematicians there

  42. #42
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Yeah, mathematicians expect a certain amount of logic in the world

    I also have a bachelor of mathematics, with a minor in computer science, and after reading this discussion, I feel like pulling out my math books again and running a few formulas off on paper
    Carsten - Website

  43. #43
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    capture one is just an instable software

    I know that all images need to be sharpened somewhat straight out of the camera and that LR2 has default capture sharpening settings, but I am trying to understand why the default settings need to be adjusted and how capture sharpening fits into the workflow. Ive read the Kelby and Evening chapters on sharpening in LR2, and have the MR/JS series on the Fine Print. What I think I understand is that the amount of sharpening is output dependent. So unless I am creating a slide show to be viewed on my computer screen, why would I be concerned with capture sharpening? Assuming for example that my only output is prints, why wouldnt I sharpen only once during the printing process?

    Thanks for your help.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    There are two stages of sharpening plus there is also usage of sharpening tools for other creative purposes.

    1. Input sharpening.
    Digital sensors are actually an array of cells which sample the light impinging on them (lets for a moment neglect bayer and other color formation related issues). In front of the actual sensor cell there sits a number of layers, some of which are part of the sensor itself. Some of these are built into the chip, such as the color filters and oxide, and passivation layers deposited on the silicon as part of sensor manufacturing. Others are assembled as part of the unit installed in the camera, perhaps a low-pass (AA) filter, and maybe a protective glass sheet. All of these impart blur to a greater or lesser degree.
    Lenses also impart blur and veiling flare. Not only glass imperfections, but internal reflections, not to mention reflections that come off the sensor, hit the rear element or some other surface where a refractive index change might occur, and are returned to the sensor.
    De-bayering and noise reduction also impart blur and color smearing.
    The purpose if input sharpening is to reduce the visible effects of all the above.
    One component is to increase the pixel-to-pixel contrast One way to do this is through the use of unsharp mask with a low radius setting (usually less than a pixel). The other component is to combat veiling. Sometimes this is done with unsharp mask with a low percentage large radius setting. The "clarity" slider of many converters is often implemented this way.

    Of course there are other techniques (such as deconvolution LOL), but these steps are all designed to produce an image that is apparently free of these blurring and veiling artifacts.

    2. Output sharpening
    Each step in the image reproduction process introduces some sort of edge blurring effect. Inkjet printers effectively paint the image on paper with nano-sprayguns. Printing processes, no matter what technology used so far do their bit to fuzz things up. So the purpose of output sharpening is to attempt to compensate. Output sharpening is dependent on issues such as the reproduction technology, image size, and viewing distance.
    Since each time an image is printed it needs to be sharpened appropriately for the specific purpose, it is left to the end as well as other compensatory adjustments such as curves and white-point and black-point compensation.

    Separating sharpening into two stages enables one to standardize the process to some degree. Each camera and lens combination (and sometimes shooting situation) might need different treatment, whereas each printer/paper/size/distance combination another. If the steps are combined, then one is faced with an experimental trial and error situation which may waste both time and materials.
    -bob

  45. #45
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: capture one is just an instable software

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Ketch, C1 image temporarily blurs as it's changing adjustments, and lets you know it's done when it snaps back to focus.
    Thanks Jack to clarify that for me, sure wish I could see changes on real time to better get a filling of what I was doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Also Ketch may want to set your previews at like 1200 in the preference panel. i found that to be a good balance between speed and quality of preview.
    Thanks Guy, done that now, and do see a marginal change on effect and duration of the blur, not sure what was this setting prior to changing it to 1200, but this does help a little, very little I just wish all changes were real time, and for a moment was worrying it was my system.

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