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Thread: Viveza & Aperture

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    Viveza & Aperture

    I'm getting more excited about Aperture.

    It is now on the Nik site about their support for aperture and your plug-in purchase is good for both PhotoShop and Aperture.

    From the NIK site:

    Pricing & Availability:

    Retail Price
    Viveza retails for USD $249.95. Registered users who purchased Viveza for Photoshop are eligible for a free download of Viveza for Aperture and will receive a download link and instructions automatically by email once the product is available.

    Availability
    Viveza is currently available for Photoshop and Aperture compatibility will be available in May 2008.

  2. #2
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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Yes....we were talking about this in another thread a while back. I have some of the Nik Software loaded in PS now and it is very good. I do use Aperture a lot, so having this option there is going to be wonderful. (I still think Aperture handles some RAW conversions very nicely compared to others, like ACR, so getting more tools into it is going to be very nice.)

    Not knowing how things will be handled in Aperture, with respect to image processing, since Aperture uses both the CPU and the video card, but I can say that horsepower does matter for using some of these in PS.

    Getting the dual plug-ins (PS and Aperture) is a smart move for Nik, and very nice for the users. Hope they do the same for Color EFEX Pro, Dfine and Sharpener also, as those are also very useful plug-ins.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    LJL - Agreed on the other Nik stuff.

    I was very happy to here that Nik was not going to charge as a separate package for Aperture, considering that I already bought Viveza for PhotoShop.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    LJ,

    any word if they're going to finally upgrade the professional bundle to include Viveza?

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    LJ,

    any word if they're going to finally upgrade the professional bundle to include Viveza?
    Have yet to get a response on that one. I am under the impression that they have a lot in the air right now. I had to wait two weeks to get the disk copy of Viveza because they were waiting on the boxes to be printed? (I would have been happy with the disk just sent in the mail. I could have done the direct download and license thing, but I was working this through another vendor, so I had to wait.)

    The Sharpener Pro app needs to be updated to work on Mac's Leopard OS in PS CS3 without having to invoke Rosetta. That suggests to me they may have to do a rebuild. I can say that I do hope they offer a full blown pro package with all the apps as updated plug-ins, but Viveza has not been bundled yet. I have it, Color Efex Pro 3.0, Dfine 2.0 and Sharpener Pro 2.0 all installed on my G5 running OS X 10.4.11, and it is great. Just used all of them the other day in concert to retouch some images for magazine publications, and it made the work short and sweet by comparison to anything else I had been doing.

    I will keep asking and post something once I get any info.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    It has been announced by Apple that the Nik Software Viveza plug-in for Aperture 2.1 is now available and will be shipping in the downloads. Folks that already have the PS version of the plug-in, and are registered, are supposed to be notified by email when the Aperture 2.1 plug-in can be downloaded. Have not seen it yet, nor have I gotten a response from Nik on this yet. Should be soon. BTW, the demo of the Viveza plug-in for Aperture looks very slick. Automatically creates a new Version. Is accessed like the Apple Dodge & Burn plug-in, through the menu.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    It is available right now, when you log-in. Log-in, click on Viveza and it will show options for download. Just click your platform, language, and aperture, then start the download.

    I just finished installing it and trying it out.

    Best,

    Ray
    Last edited by harmsr; 7th May 2008 at 11:52.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    It is available right now, when you log-in. Log-in, click on Viveza and it will show options for download. Just click your platform, language, and aperture, then start the download.

    I just finished installing it and trying it out.

    Best,

    Ray
    HI Ray (and everyone)
    I've been trying it out this afternoon in Aperture - it looks startlingly good (mind you it costs about the same as Aperture here so it should be good).

    Now I have to decide whether or not I want it.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Jono,

    It really is an amazing tool and time saver. I first got used to it in Nikon Capture NX with the D200. When it came out for photoshop so that I could use it on other files, I bought it immediately. Then they announced the plug-in for Aperture, which I have been anxiously awaiting till today.

    Once Aperture also gets the Noise Ninja plug-in, trips into Photoshop will become rarer for the majority of photos.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Jono,

    It really is an amazing tool and time saver. I first got used to it in Nikon Capture NX with the D200. When it came out for photoshop so that I could use it on other files, I bought it immediately. Then they announced the plug-in for Aperture, which I have been anxiously awaiting till today.

    Once Aperture also gets the Noise Ninja plug-in, trips into Photoshop will become rarer for the majority of photos.

    Best,

    Ray
    I'm certainly impressed - the selection isn't quite as nice as in Lightroom (where you can have different shaped selections) but it IS good, and it seems to work really fast an stable in Aperture.

    Dammit - more expense!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    It is available right now, when you log-in. Log-in, click on Viveza and it will show options for download. Just click your platform, language, and aperture, then start the download.

    I just finished installing it and trying it out.

    Best,

    Ray
    Ray,
    I did get the download after logging in. Breeze to install. Got caught up in other work, so could not respond right away.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I'm certainly impressed - the selection isn't quite as nice as in Lightroom (where you can have different shaped selections) but it IS good, and it seems to work really fast an stable in Aperture.

    Dammit - more expense!
    Jono,
    My initial impressions of Viveza were good, and after using it through PS, and now in Aperture, those impressions remain. While it does not have the shape control things you mention in LR (have not worked with LR myself, so I cannot say for sure), it does have the ability to lay in as many control points a you want, each handling very tiny through very large changes. I have started to try some larger area changes to things, and then coming back with localized "negative" changes for specific corrections. Really works quite nicely.

    My only wish, and this may be beyond what the software can do, would be the ability to make changes to the image that Viveza Version is based upon, and have them reflected, rather than having to create new Versions each time. In other words, if I tweaked a file with normal adjustments, then did more adjustments in Viveza, I cannot go back to the original to adjust things again and have those work with the Viveza Version without having to redo the Viveza version. Just takes a bit more planning for adjustments before going to Viveza. This is bit different in PS, as the Viveza layer is separate, and you can make adjustments to the Background layer, and just have the Viveza layer over that.

    None of this is really a showstopper for me. Just wishing for more true non-destructive changes that could still be adjusted, rather than creating a new 16-bit PSD Version every time. As I say, it really just comes down to a bit more more planning, or experimenting and tossing out the ones you do not want to avoid bloating the Library with image files. I very much like the Nik Color EFEX Pro 3.0, Dfine 2.0 and Sharpener Pro 2.0 that I use through PS. In fact, the Dfine 2.0 noise reduction tool is really good, and I have started to use it more than Noise Ninja, my past favorite, with very nice results. I have purposely kept my G5 running 10.4.11, just so I could use Sharpener Pro, as that plug-in has not been updated to work in Leopard yet without some real issue (running PS in Rosetta, for example). It delivers outstanding sharpening for display and printing. If those tools (Dfine and Sharpener) could be added as Aperture plug-ins, it would pretty much eliminate much need for PS, in my workflow.

    Sorry to prattle on, as the topic was Viveza and Aperture. I think it a great tool and nice addition for Aperture. The Dodge and Burn tool that Apple released is also quite good and fairly robust, but Viveza seems much easier to use, and offers a different kind of control. If only both could be used on the same file interchangeably, rather than each creating its own PSD file.

    LJ

  13. #13
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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Viveza is fantastic. It has completely changed my approach to postprocessing, allowing me to quickly make changes that would previously have taken a much longer time. I like C1 for the 5D, anticipate using Raw Developer for the DP1, and thus far enjoy using Master for E-420 files. It's nice that Viveza, as a PS plugin, can be used as a finisher, along with Alien Skin Exposure, regardless of which RAW processing application I use. I don't want to become wedded to Lightroom or Aperture.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by asabet View Post
    Viveza is fantastic. It has completely changed my approach to postprocessing, allowing me to quickly make changes that would previously have taken a much longer time. I like C1 for the 5D, anticipate using Raw Developer for the DP1, and thus far enjoy using Master for E-420 files. It's nice that Viveza, as a PS plugin, can be used as a finisher, along with Alien Skin Exposure, regardless of which RAW processing application I use. I don't want to become wedded to Lightroom or Aperture.
    Amin,
    I agree with you about having the flexibility to choose various other RAW developers, and then working on the finish in PS using the Viveza plug-in. The nice thing now is that the plug-in does work so well in Aperture, whose RAW developing engine just keeps getting better and better. It may not be perfect for everything, but having used many others plus Aperture from its start, it has come a long way. It handles my 1DsMkII files better than anything else I have used, and it also does really well with the M8.

    My hope is that Nik Software builds the other plug-ins to work in Aperture as well as PS and offers them to folks like they have for Viveza. That would not prevent one from processing a file in whatever app they wanted, and pulling that file into Aperture to work on from there (without RAW processing), if one wanted to do so. The concept of these plug-ins is nice, as it allows for a good workflow for some needs. Having Viveza in both PS and Aperture is a real plus in my eyes. Let's me work how I want, and still gives me an incredibly powerful tool for finish work. All good.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Is my understanding correct (from reading the above) that if you purchase the Viveza plug-in for Photoshop you get it for Aperture too. The separate layer and smart filter options are attractive and if I had to make the choice I'd get it for Photoshop. It sure would be nice if I could have both for the price of one.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Is my understanding correct (from reading the above) that if you purchase the Viveza plug-in for Photoshop you get it for Aperture too. The separate layer and smart filter options are attractive and if I had to make the choice I'd get it for Photoshop. It sure would be nice if I could have both for the price of one.
    David,
    You are correct. If you buy the Viveza plug-in, you get both the Photoshop version and the Aperture version, so if you happen to use both apps, like me, you have the plug-in to work in both. As you note, the flexibility of the PS version is greater, and that is what I started with, but now having it in Aperture is a very nice and valuable addition.

    My hope is for Nik Software to offer the same arrangement for their other apps that I mentioned, but no word on that yet.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Thanks for confirming this LJ. I went to the Nik site and don't see any plug-ins to buy. Do you just buy the product as if it were a stand alone package and then use that serial number for the plug ins??

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    David,
    Yes. The Nik Software products are, for the most part, plug-ins that work in Photoshop, and now Viveza works in Aperture. Basically, you download the product and then enter the serial number provided after you pay and register. I had purchased a boxed product from another vendor, so after I had registered the product last month, I just logged in and downloaded the Aperture version plug-in (per Ray's comments above). Upon installation, it asks if you want to do a 15-day demo, or if you have a serial number. Enter the SN and it loads itself. It shows up in the Aperture menu under Images > Edit with... , and stacks beneath Dodge and Burn.

    Hope that answers your immediate and possible other questions.

    LJ
    Last edited by LJL; 9th May 2008 at 13:08.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Gracias amigo... Going to Buy it Now

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Gracias amigo... Going to Buy it Now
    De nada. Looking forward to your impressions after you really start to play with it.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Another convert.

    I'm actually rather sure that you will enjoy what it can do for quick edits.

    Let us know what you think of it, after playing awhile.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Another convert.

    I'm actually rather sure that you will enjoy what it can do for quick edits.

    Let us know what you think of it, after playing awhile.

    Best,

    Ray
    I did play with it for a when it was a free standing program and also got a feel for the U-point technology when using Capture NX (a program that was just too clunky and slow for me). I liked it for quick edits but felt I could do a better job with layers and masks in Photoshop, albeit with more work involved. Now that I own it I'll give it a more thorough workout and post my impressions.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    I just got my copy today and downloaded the Aperture plug-in after registering. Hot stuff!

    Here is a sample:

    Straight from Aperture


    Aperture + Viveza

    I applied it only to the flower to give it more kick.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Carlos,
    Nice first pass on this. You might try a bit more on the image, such as decreasing the saturation and brightness a bit more on the green foliage in the background. It will allow the flower to start to look even more 3D.

    One of the neat things is the ability to get very narrow on a portion of the image, and then be able to duplicate that control point ad move it someplace else to get the same effect on a similar color. The other great thing is if you do a larger diameter, more global adjustment and then come back to a specific point, add a new control point, it essentially acts like an eraser. I use that to pull up some saturations, and then reduce them in things like people's faces, so they do not look too cooked.

    Viveza is a pretty nice tool, and now it is nice to have it available in Aperture for those of us that like using Aperture.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Wow! You are quite correct sir!

    Take a look now!
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Looking good, Carlos!

    For your next exercise, try dropping down into the other color specific choices beyond just the default Brightness, Saturation, Contrast things that show up with the control points. You will suddenly have even more control over specific tones of colors. Lots going on with this tool's capabilities, and I keep testing something new every time I use it. Easy to learn and quite easy to use.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    OK, how's this?

    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Carlos,
    This is an interesting rendering also. Maybe a bit more stylistic or something, but it clearly demonstrates just how far you can move some things with Viveza. You have quickly taken a pleasant shot (the bright, more pastel looking first image) and moved it through a couple iterations to create something that looks like it was taken under completely different lighting and setting conditions, and all with not that much effort.

    I love the bokeh in this shot, as displayed in the first few versions. The darkness of your last version tends to erase that a bit too much, in my opinion, but hey, that is part of the fun of experimenting with these tools.

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Been playing with Viveza in CS3. Love what it does an dhow it does it, but the pricing seems a bit over-the-top gievn what Aperture or LR costs; especially when I suspect 'control point' style tech will likely get built into future version(s) of LR, CS and Aperture.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Been playing with Viveza in CS3. Love what it does an dhow it does it, but the pricing seems a bit over-the-top gievn what Aperture or LR costs; especially when I suspect 'control point' style tech will likely get built into future version(s) of LR, CS and Aperture.
    Rob,
    I agree that the pricing does seem awfully high. Not sure how fast that U-point tech is going to be adopted in other apps, either, so like many things, first to the party gets to set the prices a bit more

    There is still a difference in the PS and Aperture versions of Viveza. In the PS version you at least get to save things as a layer, which you can change the opacity and blending on, while in Aperture, the changes get baked into the file as a new version. That has not been a problem for me yet, and if it does become an issue, I can just shell out to PS from Aperture and work on things there as I do with some other Nik tools.

    The one thing that has not been figured out yet is how to do what I call "pixel pushing" adjustments on true RAW files. In other words, all of these tools require that the RAW file get processed, and then worked on as a PSD or TIFF type file, over having the ability to create those instruction sets to be applied to an on the fly RAW conversion. Not sure that will be able to be accomplished, but the beauty and utility of tools like Aperture and LR, where you basically have only a compact RAW file and then small instruction sets for the adjustments, gets wasted when you have to start creating multiple new versions as very large 16-bit files.

    This may be where PS will hold its own. You do the majority of tweaks on the RAW file, convert that to a single 16-bit PSD, and then just add layers to turn on and off as needed. I started to do this with my ACR/PS stuff lately. I do one master conversion in ACR, and then add layers for adjustments, including sharpening (as a layer), and turn on the one I need depending upon use. (Display sharpening is different from print sharpening, for example.) I keeps the total number of files/versions down.

    As you said in another note....."no magic bullet" yet....

    LJ

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    As you say, with being first to market comes the rewards (re: pricing). Playing with V in CS3 and as you suggest much prefer using it in a layer mode you can turn off than cooking it into the tiff in Aperture. If I bite the bullet and purchase, I'll likely keep it with CS3 and use Aperture strictly as a DAM, for first pass editing and quick proof sheeting. Seems to give better print results than CS3, but that's still tentative on further testing.

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    Re: Viveza & Aperture

    For the record, I ordered a copy via JourneyEd (my daughter's school buys software from there) and it was much more reasonably priced.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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