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Thread: Challenge: DR compression

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Challenge: DR compression

    A recurring problem in photography is to compress the dynamic range of reality into something printable. I'm sure we all have faced this numerous time. Some approaches include ND grads, negative film with a long toe, HDR merge, and various image processing workflows.

    I propose a challenge for us to post our best results in compressing DR in an image. Not a competition, but more to let us compare approaches and results.

    Simple "Rules":
    - Color photos only (color is more of a difficulty than B&W)
    - Post source image as well as final image
    - Tell us how much of a challenge you faced in the lighting conditions, and how you handled it.

    I got the idea after noticing Graham Welland's "Cow Bikers & Sunset" in the image gallery:



    Beautiful photo, obviously the DR is enormous, shooting straight into the sun. The camera (digital Leica?) handled the transition to blown highlights nicely without being able to actually show the outline of the sun (which is probably 5-15 stops overexposed). Lens coating performance is also remarkable. That is one clean lens.

    I'll post my own favorite high-contrast image here soon.

    Lars

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Hi Lars:

    This is a topic we discussed at length on our Yosemite workshop. Here is the exemplar image I worked up in the demo for the participants. Note that I hand blended two separate exposures, though the technique can work for one raw file processed two different ways:

    First is the image exposed to hold the sky:




    Next is the image exposed for the foreground (about 2 stops more exposure plus an extra 1/2 at raw conversion than the sky image):



    I then blend and mask these two images in CS to get this result. (Note that this blended file has been fully worked, so has localised brightness and contrast adjustments as well as global hue, saturation and output curve adjustments:



    What we end up with is basically an SND filter after-the-fact whose contour is "tunable" to the elements of the specific image we are working...

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Here is a sunset photo from Australia - when I saw Graham's biker photo I noticed the similar lighting. It was captured on Velvia 50, obviously exposed for the highlights - I seem to recall that I spotmetered the sand in the center left and placed that at zone 5, but I'm not sure. To handle the contrast range I used a 3-stop hard edge ND grad. This works well in the sun and sky but towards the right side of the beach the ND grad is noticeable. I also used an upside-down coral grad to warm up the sand, as any horizontal surface is mostly blue at sunset.



    Next I digitally adjusted exposure by about 2.5 stops, limited to darker areas. Total compression should then be in the range of about 4-6 stops, compared to the actual scene (this does not include compression by overexposing highlights and letting the film handle that). Here is the result:



    There are some things going on with saturation in the breakwater, and as mentioned earlier the upper right has lost all detail in the shade. Apart from that I think it's pretty good, with the foreground transitioning nicely into the reflection of the sun in the breakwater and all the way into the sunset. (the frame seen is the film holder in my scanner).

    Lars
    Last edited by Lars; 22nd November 2007 at 10:27.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Jack, are you sure it's just two plus 1/2 stops difference between the two exposures? it looks like a lot more. Joey says it's more like 4 stops. Perhaps some contrast adjustments were present in the raw conversion.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Bumping this thread up to the top... any interest in this topic?

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    The challenge in HDR printed images is to make the viewer of the printed image comfortable with the unnatural look - 99% of the time ( to my eye anyway) it is a challenge that cant be met.
    The challenge isn't a technical challenge - it is a matter of aesthetic.
    Fir example - Jack's technically great presentation to my eye would have been much better with a much more subtle treatment of the foreground - the shot is to me more bout the drama in the sky as framed by the foreground and slopes than teh detail in the foreground.
    it is always dangerous ground to comment on other people's aesthetic preference - usually I avoid it - but HDR is an 'in your face trickery' that I don't have much emotional sympathy for in most cases.
    Understanding teh techniques though is a valuable exercise for photographers to master.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Peter,
    Forget the "HDR" moniker for a while - how do you control contrast range when photographing? It's not really about digital solutions in particular - photographers have been dodging & burning, using flash and diffusers for a hundred years.
    Lars

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Lars - what you say regarding photographers' penchant for embracing artifice is a to a large extent a function of managing the perceived limitations of teh capture medium technologies they had to deal with.
    The imposition of technical cliche and artifice however - has not really added much to the aesthetic of the appreciation of photography.
    Now how do I handle 'contrast'? - a good question - mostly I embrace it and underline it - when that is important to the emotional impact of a shot.
    Regarding dodging and burning - I guess a lot of people can have a lot of fun - dressing up mutton as if it were lamb -
    Maybe I say these things - because of my personal taste at the moment -the same reason why I find landscape shooting to be the hardest thing anyone could do - unless their ambition was to be a good postcard shooter and that formula is boringly easy.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Jack, are you sure it's just two plus 1/2 stops difference between the two exposures? it looks like a lot more. Joey says it's more like 4 stops. Perhaps some contrast adjustments were present in the raw conversion.
    Actually, closer to 2-1/4. First image was taken at 1/90th f8, second at 1/20th f8. I bumped the second image maybe +1/3 stop in the raw converter, so that gets us to approximately 2-1/2 stops total difference. Anyway, I did also do a *LOT* of selective editing in the final, so depending on what you are actually measuring, Joey could easily show 4 stops total difference. The bushes in the lower right and flora in the mid-ground are the obvious ones for added selective brightness, and then some global adjustments after that --- just compare bright areas in the final to the lighter or the two base images.

    PS: Lars, you'll be happy to know I did it all in CS3
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Peter,
    I was hoping with this thread to have a "how" discussion. Another topic is of course the "why" discussion, which as you point out is partly about aesthetics.

    Jack,
    I did my edit using Joey
    (Had size it down using PS so metadata says Photoshop)
    Last edited by Lars; 29th November 2007 at 02:52.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post

    Jack,
    I did my edit using Joey
    SahWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    oh my sincere apologies - you may find 'value' then in my post regarding Lightzone - it is a far less tedious workflow than any incarceration of photoshop regarding the practical aspects of DR etc..for exactly the pur[oses you are examining.

    Cheers
    Pete

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Thanks Pete, no worries. I think LightZone was a good first attempt - we did break some new ground. We could have taken it much further but Fabio wanted to put most of our efforts into raw conversion. This lead us into a position where we competed by price rather than by functionality. Without much revenue we ran out of funding and most of the staff was laid off last year.
    Lars

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Biting my tounge... Hard.

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    So the lightzone thing is a no go then? How disappointing - I think it is a fantastic approach to darkroom work. I am very sad to hear it..

    Jack - dont hold your punches man - let em rip we are big boys down here mate -

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Peter - I think the company might still be alive, Fabio burned through some more funding this year but it doesn't seem to have improved the product much (some feature changes actually made it worse, but then again Fabio and I had different views on photography from the start - he's a scientist). My personal opinion, of course.

    Anyway, I've been busy working on my own product for a while, I showed Jack a prototype some months ago. It's a while more before any public beta but I think it's safe to say that there is still lots of room for innovation in the digital darkroom field .

    Jack - by all means, rip away!

    Lars

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Peter:

    My part of the LightZone story isn't really very exciting. I was part of a focus group early in the product cycle. They were supposedly looking for input (and funding). This was where I first met Lars, got to see some of his work and instantly saw he was an excellent photographer! Anyway, one of the principles was discussing the product and I asked a few questions he couldn't answer, so he asked Lars to demo it for me. As Lars was doing the demo, I made three or four suggestions on things I'd like to see it modified to do a certain way and have a few simple features added. Lars said these were great suggestions, mention them to the principle. I did and it became clear in about three seconds that this guy knew next to nothing about digital photography and even less about traditional photography. Moreover, he didn't know anything about his main competitor at the time, Photoshop. (He did know some buzz words and I guess that's all he felt he needed to know to run a digital imaging product company...) I attempted a second time to explain why these features would be important to a photographer, but he literally cut me off and shifted to his mantra about focusing all of their energies on developing solid RAW conversion platform and weren't really interested in changing program features at this time. He totally turned me off. Little did he know I had done my share of fundraising for start-ups and had several possible sources of funding for them. At any rate, as far as I was concerned he shut that door at that first meeting. But Lars pulled me aside and said not to give up, use the program and he'd discuss my suggestions with the owner. He was optimistic some of my suggestions might ultimately get implemented as they'd be easy to implement and were clearly good ideas. I tried the product back then and found three serious flaws in the first 5 minutes, gave up totally and decided I'd never go back until they "fixed" my issues.

    Almost a year later, Lars and I are independently asked to co-lead on a workshop led by a mutual friend. Here we really got a chance to know each other, and the short version is we've been friends ever since. LZ had not really implemented anything new during that year other than keeping current with the raw conversion explosion. Lars said the writing was on the wall and that he'd probably be leaving soon. Shortly thereafter, he and LightZone parted ways, and with that separation I stopped following the company as I knew it would simply fade away over time.

    I've got to take my daughter to school, so I'll come back and finish with part 2 in a bit.

    Part 2.

    This is where the story gets interesting, but please understand I am not comfortable saying too much at this stage and will leave it up to Lars to fill in as he sees fit. Several months after Lars left LZ, he met with me to show me what he'd been working on and I've been on his advisory board ever since. In short, Joey is an entirely new concept for image editing, nothing like Photoshop or LZ, and extremely intuitive to use. Not only that, Lars has implemented some clever programming tricks that make it really fast even with large files on a laptop computer... It is clearly a product designed for photographers by somebody who knows something about photography --- how refreshing is that!

    Joey will not have a raw converter so you'll need to use Lightroom, C1 or whatever, and it will only have simple print output, so you'll need a printing program or RIP for serious image output. But let's face it: Now that the raw converters allow for such good initial global image adjustments, most of us already use that workflow anyway --- RAW processor > Image editor > RIP --- and time spent in the IE has been reduced pretty much to where we only need it for selective adjustments. IMO, Joey promises to fill this middle step far better than anything we've had available to date
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Well Jack - that is a very interesting background - thanks for that. The thing I like about LZ is the use of teh idea of zone, and relight and the elegant selection tool. Some of te canned effects are pretty good.
    I am shocked to hear about "Fabio's'? response to suggestions - usually good business people are all ears and closed mouth -
    Well I look forward to what Lars is working on and I am glad you are involved. I think the world is ready for debloating as far as image processing goes.
    Regarding workflow I think that you ar eon teh right track with regards to avoiding raw processing if it ads too much complexity cost. Regarding PRINTING SOFTWARE - that is teh new frontier as far as I am concerned ( after a LZ or better product) I am so irritated with clunky Japanese software and lack of manuals ( read Canon especially) fantastic prints - but hopeless documentation and manuals..
    Anyway thanks for the background - chalk me in for beta testing if you like Jack/Lars, I haev had some extensive involvement in GUI design over the years - in high end financial software etc..- I could be the idiot user test -
    Good Luck to both of you.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Jack - thanks for the summary re Joey.

    Joey is not yet ready for a beta, or even a technology preview. It has some really neat stuff (that Jack hasn't seen ), but the issue of completeness should not be underrated. Joey is now a great demo but I wouldn't let anyone else drive just yet - the wheels might fall off at the first turn, so to speak. I'm just about getting to the confidence level of posting images produced by Joey here.

    There are some possibilities on the raw converter side. Windows has the concept of an image codec which is a plugin program for the OS that interprets a binary file of a specific format into an image so apps can read that file. Using codecs Joey can now read for example NEF and DNG files directly, all I had to do was install the codecs and include those extensions in my file list. However, the Nikon NEF codec only shows the image as it came from the camera, and the third-party DNG codec does the same, ignores any CR/LR edits. If Adobe would release a DNG codec that fully interprets DNG with corrections then an editor could plug straight into a raw workflow without any need for integration on the workflow tool - no need to render an intermediate tif file. I think this will happen some day.

    Anyway, this should give some perspective as to my interest in this topic. Always an ulterior motive hehe.
    Last edited by Lars; 1st December 2007 at 02:40.

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Lars - I suspect Adobe will eventually integrate Lightroom and CS - the lightroom database ( idea) is probably useful as the front end for all sorts of Adobe files no? As the database improves - I suspect you will lsee greater integration - what is the point of Adobe Raw now? ( accessed through 'Bridge" - it only exists because Lightroom isn't integrated...( yet)

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Peter - I'm not so sure about that integration. LR is a separate product from CS, built by a separate, small, innovative team. CS OTOH is all massive legacy code, some 80 million lines of it is what I heard.

    The problem with integration of separate products at that scale is that for anything shared, each product team has - must have - a veto right to safeguard the quality of its own legacy product. So while low-level shared components can boost productivity, at a higher level - like using LR as file browser for all of CS - sharing and integration effectively stalls innovation.

    Also, from a market perspective there is little benefit as LR caters to a different market than CS. Yes many of us photographers use CS, but it's not really made for us. LR is, we just need to pull in PS for editing once in a while. Then when we put on our publishing hat it's of course a different situation, but that is a role that all photographers do not have.

    If I was product manager for LR I would fiercely defend its independence from CS. Bridge can remain a file browser for CS users, but hands off my photo workflow app!

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Lars, how do you estimate the schedule for finishing this Joey project of yours in a first version ?
    I could use something like that on top of Capture One Pro 3.7.7 for my M8 DNG files.

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    bondo, Thanks for the interest, it's still a bit left before I can even call anything a beta.... let's put it this way, by the time of my first release your Capture One won't be 3.7.7 anymore.

    However you are definitely in the target group - let me ask you this: what would you be looking for in a photo editing software that you cannot find today? Always interesting to get some input.

    Lars

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Thanks Lars
    Right now my biggest concern is that my M8 seems to be clipping the highlights rather abrupt. I suspect it may have something to do with the 8 bit DNG files
    I simply don't get it why they are not at least 12 bit ... ?? Oh well.
    Anyway, this means that I often need to underexpose by something like a whole stop. And afterwards it would be nice to have access to a feature like "D-lighting" (known from RAW converters like Nikon Capture 4.4.2, and even from Nikon PictureProject 1.6 that comes free with the cheaper Nikon DSLR models).
    So actually a feature for dealing exactly with the topic of this thread would be a major feature, in my opinion. And especially for my present purpose with the M8.
    But in general I would say that features helping the user to provide the images with some extra "pop and bang", i.e. doing the best possible to contrast, color saturation and sharpness and whatever make them "jump out of the screen or paper". This "pop" character was my main reason for selling my Canon gear and buying into Nikon and now Leica.
    There is a great member on the Nikon board of the FM forum, Raymond Francois, who is very skilled in postprocessing. Recently he was so kind to show the other board members some of his tricks. The example might be a bit exaggerated in order to make even PP-dummies like me understand. But believe me, he has shown countless excellent results. That was why he was asked to reveal some of his tricks. Go take a look for yourself. But I don't want to buy CS3 just for this "smartfilters blending mode to softlight"
    feature (which I can't find in my old Photoshop 7 ?). Anyway, go take a look for yourself.
    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/571651

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    ... let's put it this way, by the time of my first release your Capture One won't be 3.7.7 anymore.
    If only you are done by the time Capture One 4.0 hits the shelves

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    If only you are done by the time Capture One 4.0 hits the shelves
    No promises

    About the recipe at the link you posted... Seems like a typical Photoshop mess, with excellent results. This is not unusual, you have this guy who spends countless hours on Photoshop, then cooks up recipes, which others copy while sometimes not understanding what they are doing or why (hell sometimes the recipe author is clueless, then of course he has to write another PS cookbook and the confusion is total ).

    I've been there myself, have gone through my sins, eventually learnt something.

    The idea with Joey is to use concepts that are closer to how you think, visually and logically. For example, if you want to soften the rock in the foreground you select the mid-toned warm yellow of the rock, then add a softening. To change the softening just change it at any time.

    How well this will work will of course depend on if I can write a good UI for it. That takes time, lots of it. But it's getting there.

    BTW the clipping of your M8 images could perhaps just be a question of overexposure? Perhaps (maybe this is what you mean) with only 8 bits Leica didnt allow for enough overexposure headroom to be coded into the raw file.

    BTW2 8 bits that must be gamma coded. 8 bit linear leads to horrible blocking in shadows. Other raw formats are linear, perhaps Leica did some thinking to save storage space? with 8 bit gamma 2 coding over 16 bit linear, what you throw away is intermediate values in highlights whereas in the deep shadows you still have a decent resolution. But more bits is of course better.

    OTOH a raw is often edited aggressively by applying curves so I doubt 8 bit gamma is sufficient for much more than a straight development. But I have no experience from M8 DNG files so I cannot say.

    Lars
    Last edited by Lars; 2nd January 2008 at 15:50.

  27. #27
    Mitch Alland
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    LightZone almost gonzo?

    Lars:

    A bit alarmed to hear that LightZone is almost on its last legs. Is that so?

    I was a beta tester for LZ2 about a year ago, but, then, stopped getting responses to e-mail that I sent, which now makes sense if most of the people are gone.

    The trouble is that I've now organized my workflow to use LZ exclusively with my GRD2 and GX100 cameras, as well as th D-Lux-3. While Silkypix has somewhat better RAW conversion, as does Raw Developer, I find that I can make up the difference (for B&W) with further processing in LZ.

    What I like about LZ is, first, the vector-based selection facility (Regions), which is much more powerful and easy-to-use than Photoshop — I don't even need a pen tablet to use it; second, the Tone Picker and Relight tools; and, third, the ability to save stacks of tools as Styles that can then be applied to other pictures.

    Obviously there are some flakey things that need to be fixed in LZ, but the idea of using an orphaned product — if it is indeed orphaned — is problematic because, as operating systems evolve, one is eventually stuck with something unusable. And learning new PP software is also time-consuming and painful. I suppose, for the time being, I should continue using LZ. Any advice?

    —Mitch/Huahin
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Goddamn, I just forked out the dough for LightZone's full product.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Mitch,

    Stick with a workflow you are happy with, for a few years at least.

    In general, from a photographer's perspective, no image making processes are permanent.

    In the wet darkroom, papers come and go, chemicals age, water pH changes over the years. The only thing permanent is the prints you already made.

    The digital darkroom is similar - while you have a workflow today that creates a certain interpretation of a raw file, odds are you won't be able use the same workflow (computer, OS, software, printer) twenty years from now. The only thing permanent is your prints (hopefully), you can always make new interpretations of your raws but it won't be the same.

    For this reason, it's important to save and archive the final digital output of the important final images. A tif or even high-quality jpeg will be great for recreating a similar print. For this reason I try to always save my output as a tif and then print the tif.

    Another advice is to keep the raw conversion software separate from the editing software. Over time, as you buy new cameras, raw converter makers have to respond by updating their software. This is problematic for smaller shops like Lightcrafts. If you depend upon your workflow software to support all your future cameras then you are building a dependency upon the software maker.

    Maggie,

    LightZone is a fine product and I hope it survives. In the long run any commercial product depends on a positive cash flow, and LZ has not been the commercial success we hoped for. That can still change.

    Nothing wrong with builiding a workflow around a software, just don't depend upon it being around in ten years even if it might. I think it's fair to see the lifespan of a workflow as being 3-5 years (incidentally the same as pro-level digital cameras these days).

    Lars

  30. #30
    Mitch Alland
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    ...Stick with a workflow you are happy with, for a few years at least.....Fit's important to save and archive the final digital output of the important final images.
    Thanks, Lasse, good advice. I always save the RAW and final TIFF files.

    —Mitch/Bangkok
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    (...) - let me ask you this: what would you be looking for in a photo editing software that you cannot find today? Always interesting to get some input.

    Lars
    Lars, are you familiar with the so-called "U Point Technology" with Color Control Points (plus Black, White and Neutral Control Points) in Nikons RAW converter Capture NX ? Otherwise I would recommend you to look into that piece of software, just for inspiration. It's the most elegant solution for partial editing without layers I have seen so far.
    http://nikonimaging.com/global/produ...sp/u_point.htm
    Last edited by Steen; 6th March 2008 at 01:18.

  32. #32
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Thanks for the tip, Steen. Already covered.

    BTW U-points are still adjustment layers internally, they just don't show you the list of layers. And they are a bit limited in functionality.

    Here is a before-after sample from Joey - no PS-style masks just two simple editing steps. The goal was to increase the amount of fog and let the fog move closer. Possibly the effect could have been faded to add some slight transparency to the fog. Joey even lets you move a slider to see the fog move in real time. Total time for editing less than a minute.

    The original image is a 6x17 scan at 25,000 pixels wide. Blur radius is maybe 10% of image width or 2500 pixels if you like. Still fast hehe.

    Now if I could ever get this darn product finished... The devil is in the details that's for sure.
    Last edited by Lars; 24th December 2009 at 12:36.

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Lars,

    Joey seems very interesting. My only comment is that the HDR solutions I've seen so far seem unsubtle, but perhaps it's just a matter of the taste of the person processing.

    Is Joey going to work on a Mac, I hope?

    Best,

    Mitchell

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    On HDR you should all look very closely into a new tool called "Enfuse" It is a LR plug-in that does an excellent job of the blend during the raw conversion --- no halos or seams. Here is some discussion and examples as well as the downloads: http://timothyarmes.com/lrenfuse.php

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Hi Mitchell,

    Please don't get too hung up on the "HDR" moniker just yet... for many photographers (including me) HDR a foul word associated with overdone digital processing, ugly contrast mask halos etcetera. It seems to me that parts of the HDR crowd are more visually impaired techno geeks than photographic artists, at least to some degree. Just because you can do an HDR merge doesn't mean you should! So I'm not going to use that term. Rather I'm trying to get away from the whole 8-bit 0 to 255 thinking (or 16 bits or whatever) and approach the image math more from a photographic point of view (pun intended). What that will mean in the end remains to be seen.

    Hmm Mac... touchy subject - even more so in these parts of the wood... As a sole developer of a new commercial product I had to make a choice of platform to develop for. Common wisdom and experience says that everything else being equal, developing a rich-UI commercial app for Mac plus Windows is about 5-10x the effort of developing for a single platform. After considering several (technical and strategic) criteria I came to the conclusion that making a pro photo editor for Windows makes more sense than making one for MacOS. Then down the road when funding looks good it's time to make a Mac port.

    The good news is that by the time I'm finished (hopefully this year ) running a windows app virtually in a window on OSX will be a no-brainer. So in a way time is working for Mac users in this context.

    Lars

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    Re: Challenge: DR compression

    Lars,

    Thanks for your reply.
    I like your dune image, and it's encouraging to see you took the uncommon approach with it of going away from all the hot colors to more simplicity.

    Good luck with Joey!

    Best,

    Mitchell

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