Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Hello all,

    I have posted this in the Aperture forum at Apple, but am posting here as well for speed!

    I shoot architecture with the 24PC-E and 14–24 Nikkors. The 14 end of the zoom, in particular, produces lots of simple barrel distortion. Ps and PTLens fixes this well.

    What is you recommendations, workflow-wise, for this?

    One of the things I like about Aperture is that I don't have to batch process everything to make galleries and so on, but I would not want to send clients images (via galleries) that have obvious distortion.

    Can I use the lens info to make stacks of only this len's images and (for example) export only these as TIFFs? And (thinking aloud here) if I do this, how to reincorporate these images back into the projects (they are no longer 'masters'.

    Or are there other better suggestions? It's all about workflow when you have 1,000+ images...

    TIA

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Hello all,

    I have posted this in the Aperture forum at Apple, but am posting here as well for speed!

    I shoot architecture with the 24PC-E and 14–24 Nikkors. The 14 end of the zoom, in particular, produces lots of simple barrel distortion. Ps and PTLens fixes this well.

    What is you recommendations, workflow-wise, for this?

    One of the things I like about Aperture is that I don't have to batch process everything to make galleries and so on, but I would not want to send clients images (via galleries) that have obvious distortion.

    Can I use the lens info to make stacks of only this len's images and (for example) export only these as TIFFs? And (thinking aloud here) if I do this, how to reincorporate these images back into the projects (they are no longer 'masters'.

    Or are there other better suggestions? It's all about workflow when you have 1,000+ images...

    TIA
    Hi There Kit

    First of all - I hope that you are using referenced files in Aperture rather than Managed? (makes life much simpler).

    You don't (shouldn't, mustn't) export these as tiffs.
    PTlens has a plugin for Aperture:
    PT lens plugin

    This should be your friend!

    I'm sure that Kevin will jump in here with more information later on. However, having installed the plugin you should be able to right click on the image in Aperture and choose the plugin - I assume this will then create a 'new version' in Aperture create a .tiff file (in the same place as the original RAW file) - you will be able to see the RAW file and the new .tiff file within a stack in aperture. The image will then open in PTlens, you make your changes and save (not save as, just save) then you will be returned to Aperture with all your changes showing in the second version.

    You may prefer to create a new version first - i.e.
    make any exposure / wb corrections you want, then right click on image:
    New Version
    then right click on the new version and choose the plugin.

    I haven't done it with PT lens, but with the NIK plugins you can right click on a bunch of images and they will all create new versions and come up on the NIK software

    I hope this helps.
    Kevin - any more suggestions?
    Last edited by jonoslack; 1st March 2010 at 01:15.

    Just this guy you know

  3. #3
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Jono: what a great start. I already have the PTLens plugin for Ps (latest version); I am an all-Mac affair—so I am assuming the Aperture version came with this when I ordered it originally (I will look tomorrow).

    I will ask another favour re. explaining the difference between managed vs. referenced files—but let me delve into the manual tomorrow before asking that.

    So far, I am enjoying the experience, and I feel the conversions via Aperture are producing colour I personally prefer—saying nothing here about accuracy. I did a number of conversions in Ps and Aperture on the same raw files, and using similar corrections re. WB, highlights and shadows, and the respective versions of the enhancement controls, and looked at them side-by-side on my calibrated monitor.

    I have been using PK Sharpener for years, but am guessing (after looking on their site) that they are a CS-only product. I will have to look into Nik version, too.

    More later, but a deep, sincere thanks to you and Kevin for responding to my questions.

  4. #4
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Kit

    nothing really to add to Jonos explanation - I did respond to you on the "Aperture 3 is here" thread.

    Managed and referenced is simple - Managed files are stored inside the Aperture library and sort of hidden from the user( Just like iPhoto) and referenced files can be stored anywhere.

    Originally Aperture did only Managed files but they quickly changed that to allow referenced files as well which is by far the better way to work. With referenced files even if you move your images to another drive you can re-link them. I think you said you had used Final Cut - if so you will be familiar with the idea of reconnecting media

    hope this helps

    K

  5. #5
    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dublin / Ireland
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    ....Originally Aperture did only Managed files but they quickly changed that to allow referenced files as well which is by far the better way to work....
    I'm really curious as to why referenced is by far the better way to work?.

    IMO both have their strengths and weakness and really comes down user preferences. My own preference is for managed files, which are imported from my master image store directory maintaining the Master folder structure by using "file import folder".

    I have found in the past database size issues with large referenced libraries. Referenced libraries require a full size jpg (4-6mb) to be able to view your images while your referenced files are off line. Often these large jpgs are not deleted from within the aperture library as you delete images from your referenced store, enlarging your library.

    Some would say the original raw in the library makes the library much bigger, true, but I prefer to always be able to work with the original rather than the Jpg preview. Further more, with aperture 3 we now have the ability to work with different libraries within the user interface. With all databases the larger (image count not image size) the number of entries, the greater the chance of corruption. Hence I tend to start a new library every couple of years.

    There is no correct way to work, your workflow and image storage must suit your requirements. We have choices about how to store or manage images with aperture, I'm not aware of any particular method being "a far better way to work" other than being a far better way for your own preference and workflow.
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

  6. #6
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    eoin

    agreed everybody has their own ways of working and apologies if I came across the wrong way.

    Most people i know who use Aperture tend to prefer the referenced file model because they can keep the original master files off of their main machine - especially if its a laptop. Working referenced also allows you to have more flexibility in your back up strategy, plus leaves your files being able to be accessed by other applications if you wish

    It sounds like to me that you have a workflow in which you dont go from camera card to Aperture directly but import to a folder first and then import this to Aperture. If so I would be interested to hear why you do that

    The jpeg previews are only for viewing and key wording and rating- the kind of task you may want to do in the field or on a plane on a less powerful machine such as a laptop.
    You cant make adjustments if the master is offline, and you can control the size of these previews.

    I do agree that the clearing out of unneeded previews was clumsy in version 2 I have not explored 3 enough to see if that has changed.

    I do think Aperture is often misunderstood - so its great that we can have these discussions

    cheers

    K

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Eoin, Kevin

    I'm sorry that my childish insistence on a stupid point closed the last thread - there was some decent stuff there, but maybe this one can become better.

    I use a laptop nearly all the time (because I have two offices, and it's more convenient to do it that way). I have my Aperture library on my 17"MBP which goes with me. The images are on a fast external drive.

    As Kevin says, this gives quite a lot of flexibility, it also means that when I'm away from home I can select and keyword offline files (useful), I can also add projects with files in my local drive, then move them off to an external drive when I get back to base.

    I know it's paranoid, but I also feel that if the worst came to the worst, and my Aperture library was really kaput, then it's much easier to deal with files that aren't wrapped up in the rather arcane Aperture package file structure.

    I can see that there might be some advantages of using Managed files if you do all your work on the same computer in the same place . . . but if you don't I think referenced will usually be the way to go.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  8. #8
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Thanks for the clarifications.

    As an aside, and flowing from the above, I have a bullet-proof backup strategy re. backups that has served well for years; I mention this for the reason Jono gave above: I feel Raw files (and Raw footage; my HD video camera also records Raw files that need to be "transcoded" to be used in Final Cut) need to be stored exactly as they come off the cards. This means two things: one, that they can be stored natively (and copied straight to DVD, in the case of the Nikon files, and why I only ever use 4GB cards—they fit on a single DVD, or the copied Raw video files are immediately copied on to another drive), and two, this facilitates the easy backup strategy.

    So, Referenced makes sense to me (and why so far I have resisted buying into Adobe's DNG format too, as an aside) and I still use ACR and C1 for particular tasks—and for that I believe that you need to have the originals on a separate drive that any number of programs can 'see'.

    Speaking more generally, and OT, I have four fast drives in the Mac (the boot drive is an SSD one, which has given me the best bang-for-the-buck performance improvement of any change to the system), and I make the second copies from one of the internal drives to an external 2TB FW 800 drive (this only has copies of originals, both stills and video) and also has copies of the WIP (Work in Progress) files. If this drive fails, I install a new FW drive and simply re-copy from the internal drive(s). If any of the internal drives fail, I copy back the other way to a new internal drive.

    Update: PK Sharpener is definitely a CS-only app, so I will have to investigate NIK's version, and according to the inventor, I received an Aperture version of PTLens when I got the CS version (now all I have to do is find it!)

    Cheers all, kl

    BTW, what is the best source of info in terms of how Aperture 'thinks' re. its file structures (apart from this forum, I mean)—the manual?

  9. #9
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    OK another vote for working referenced as opposed to managed. When i did my A3 upgrade i said to hell with my old library and just imported my folder of images to a new Library. Sure i threw away all the adjustments i had made to some of the 24000 images.

    on the other hand.. the images that i had adjusted i had already published and if i did go back and have to republish them then i would readjust them with the knowledge and new tools i have gained over the years. With a managed library i would not hav that option

    K

  10. #10
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    That's a really good point, Kevin, and as an Aperture newbie, I am making the library on the fly as I learn Aperture on new projects.

    And as I did yesterday, when I pointed Aperture at files from last year, it was seeing them de novo and hence the process was fast. And this approach is mandatory if anyone is using other softwares concurrently, as I am. K

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    OK another vote for working referenced as opposed to managed. When i did my A3 upgrade i said to hell with my old library and just imported my folder of images to a new Library. Sure i threw away all the adjustments i had made to some of the 24000 images.

    on the other hand.. the images that i had adjusted i had already published and if i did go back and have to republish them then i would readjust them with the knowledge and new tools i have gained over the years. With a managed library i would not hav that option

    K
    Well, whilst I understand the point, and in my struggles to convert my library there have been lots of hassles . . . . when confronted with the idea of creating a book of a wedding done in 2008 - on the basis of the web page created then, the idea of losing all those adjustments is not wonderful!

    Still, I quite agree about referenced files.

    Just this guy you know

  12. #12
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Jono,

    Will the Mac OS let you use both versions of Aperture (so keep old library and start new ones as needed with a separate version of A3)?

    Just a thought. I had a similar problem with CS4 on a mission-critical job for an embassy last year: the version of CS4 I was using became corrupted, and trying to process the images through CS3, I realised that the earlier version would not recognise the healing brush corrections or crops....

    Fun with computers—and little to do with photography. As well, does A3 recognise all the A2 corrections? Cheers to all, kl

  13. #13
    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dublin / Ireland
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    OK another vote for working referenced as opposed to managed. When i did my A3 upgrade i said to hell with my old library and just imported my folder of images to a new Library. Sure i threw away all the adjustments i had made to some of the 24000 images.

    on the other hand.. the images that i had adjusted i had already published and if i did go back and have to republish them then i would readjust them with the knowledge and new tools i have gained over the years. With a managed library i would not hav that option

    K
    I'm Sorry Kevin, but this statement regarding a managed library is incorrect IMO.
    Granted, importing an external folder structure would yield a new library of images without any adjustments. But a conversion of an existing library CAN maintain prior adjustments of the old Aperture 2 images by selecting the do not reprocess adjusted images in the conversion options. Your existing processed images will remain intact. One is then free to make a new version from master and create a Aperture 3 version from the master and apply new adjustments with the new tools.

    I'm not trying to pick holes in what you're saying, it may appear that way but I just want to mention it for the sake of clarity. Like I said before no matter what storage method one chooses, referenced or managed one has the same level of control or options available.

    For anyone who is interested .....

    Brief walkthrough managed or referenced aperture libraries.

    in a managed aperture library your master raw files are inside the library and always available for editing.
    In a referenced aperture library, providing the source image location is on line you have access to the master raw files inside aperture, if not you have access to only a jpg preview.

    Access to original untouched raw format images within the Aperture library(managed) is not available to 3rd party applications. Neither are the flags (pointers) to raw images in a referenced library accessible by 3rd party apps. The useless preview if you're using it is available to all apps once you have the share previews with ilife enabled. But who wants to use a jpg preview? except perhaps for iweb.

    In a managed library access to the image raw file can be got via the export master command within Aperture and then by pointing your 3rd party app at your export location. Or alternatively pointing the 3rd party app at one's online master backup or offline backup image store. (everyone should have one of these).

    In the referenced library one can do the same, export master and point the 3rd party app at the export location or just point the app at the master image store(source of referenced library). It's much in the same as above.

    Editing an image within aperture using a 3rd party app like CS4 with the "Edit With" command will always only allow you work with a PSD or Tiff version of the image which will always remain in & under the control of the Aperture Library after you've finished editing it in the 3rd party app. It makes no difference in this case if the library is managed or referenced it will always be the same. One sets the options on which file type opened in the external editor, PSD or Tiff 8/16bit and dpi in the Aperture preferences.

    The obvious consideration when choosing a managed or referenced Aperture library is size. In managed, you'll have at minimum a master raw image, a thumbnail and perhaps a high res jpg preview if you're using previews.

    In referenced you'll have a flag pointing to the external master(less size) a thumbnail and a high res preview. Obviously there is a saving to be made in the Aperture library size considering the master raw is elsewhere.

    The choice is a personal matter, what ever suits your workflow, managed or referenced. Functionality is almost the same.
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

  14. #14
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    eoin

    think we are talking slightly at cross purposes. I didn't mean to imply that i couldn't have imported adjustments from a previous library. I suppose i was trying to highlight one of the reasons i prefer referenced files which is i can better 'see' the relationship between my master files and Aperture.

    Also just to fill you in on my background.. I used to work for Apple in Europe, and was very involved in the launch and roll out of Aperture from the very beginning.

    Absolutely the choice of managed or referenced is entirely based on your own workflow and other factors.

    It is my personal experience that referenced works best for me. It gives me the flexibility to quickly and easily move my master files to a new drive or storage option

    K

  15. #15
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Eoin and Kevin: this info is gold. Is there a written source anywhere that goes into Aperture's 'thinking' in this kind of detail? Or should this be a collaborative effort from the luminati here?

    While I wait for my box set to be delivered, yesterday I tried to save the manual to the desktop, but was not able to (I assume this capacity to save a PDF gets unlocked when you authorise your version). Point is that when i was learning Final Cut, Apple's manual (almost a foot wide, in all, for version 3) most fellow users found third party DVDs or books a far better way to learn, and of course groups like this one.

    Because I have been so pleased with the colour out of Aperture, as well as being able to Export TIFFs for Photomatix Pro, and to be able to use the 64-bit version of PTLens right in Aperture, I believe that I will make the transition to using it as my go-to converter as well as DAM.

    Of course I will have to maintain CS4 (the extended version of Ps has some very nice, and unique, tools), but using the referenced approach that has been discussed above allows me the flexibility I need to continue using that as required, not to mention the backup aspect.

    If someone could point me to a written source of this kind of beneath-the-hood information for the most efficient use of Aperture's file handling characteristics vis à vis how best to work with other apps concurrently while maintaing Aperture as the main converter and DAM, I will be very grateful. Thanks, KL

  16. #16
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Kit

    surprised you cant download the manual... actually the manual in the box is pretty basic...as is the one on the disc which is the same.

    as regards books... no real recommendations, beyond the Peachpit Press books, which are the books used on the approved Apple Training. They are basically a three day trainign course and are usually pretty comprehensive

    They have one due in April for Aperture 3... I actually know the author through work in the past... he used to be the Motion product manager :-)

    http://www.peachpit.com/store/produc...sbn=0321647440

    I would also check out Apertureexpert.com - i know Joseph who runs the site there has been working with some people doing training videos... plus he seems to be working on an e-book himself. He's a very cool guy ... and very knowledgeable on Aperture... hes been using it even longer than me

    K

  17. #17
    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dublin / Ireland
    Posts
    410
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Kevin, accepted. It's the workflow that works for you and that's all thats really important for you. I guess I'm just adding balance to the question of referenced or managed and clearing up any misconceptions.

    Kit, manuals are for whimps , you'll never learn anything from them. Seriously though there are some excellent training videos on Apples Aperture home page. I suggest you take a quiet afternoon off and run through them again and again. I'm not sure if the older v2 videos are still there, but they can be found on itunes or youtube also. It's well worth the time taken to get a better visual understanding on how to get things done in Aperture.

    With regard to Aperture it's real power is DAM and IMO working with external programs such as CS4, it's better to use CS4 as the external editor. This is setup in the Aperture preferences. In there under the export tab you can nominate your external editor and select the file type (Tiff or PSD) bit depth (8 or 16 bit) DPI and colour space that will open up in the external application. Aperture will create this version from the chosen file place it in your library and then fire up the external application for you to edit the file in. Once you have made your adjustments in the external editor you close it and you're returned to aperture and the adjusted file reflects the changes made with the external editor.

    Aperture marks the image with a specific "badge" to let you know this image was edited outside of aperture. This external edited version is a full image, ie PSD or TIFF, if PSD is chosen, you can choose to keep layers inplace for further edits.

    However AFAIK and I can't quite remember if this only applies to plugins such as NIK software or it applies to CS4 also, but if you re-edit the image it will I think create a new duplicate PSD/Tiff in aperture for the re-edit based on the edited PSD/Tiff. But anyhow these are all full size files, not markers with tags for adjustments done as in versions a la Aperture

    It's really nicely done, but not a function I tend to use as much now. I prefer the Nik Plugins coupled with editing in aperture for 99% of my images. I'm just waiting for the 64bit updates for these and I'll be "in clover".

    Check out the vids, if I can remember any other good sites for Aperture info I'll link them here.

    Enjoy
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

  18. #18
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Kevin, just ordered the book. And Eoin, I will look into the NIK plugins—which ones do you use? I recall that Jono uses the sharpening one.

    And TIA re. good Aperture sites; there is always more to learn! cheers to all, kl

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Aperture/lens correction workflow advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    Kevin, just ordered the book. And Eoin, I will look into the NIK plugins—which ones do you use? I recall that Jono uses the sharpening one.

    And TIA re. good Aperture sites; there is always more to learn! cheers to all, kl
    Hi Kit
    I use silver efex pro, and also Vivezza. However, with the new brush functions in Aperture I'm not very clear that they're necessary. The jury is still out, but it is looking pretty good. I would find the internal modifications inadequate before shelling out lots of money on the Nik plugins. . .

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •