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Thread: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

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    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Uwe Steinmueller
    -------------------

    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Looks like some nice new enhancements.

    Downloading now.






    .

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Yes! Soft proofing in Lightroom!!!
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I like the Colour Temperature brush, I would prefer it somewhat stronger though.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    i got burned a few years back (hard drive failure when i was transferring all my images to Aperture) and haven't tried to manage them properly since.

    my new year's resolution was to finally be grown up and try to wrangle all my images again (they are now backed up over duplicate drives) and i decided to use Lightroom and am just getting my head around it.

    should i do this now in 3 or wait for 4 to officially come out?

    can i trust doing it in 4?

    for the record, C1 is still my choice of RAW processor for Leica images but i am enjoying LR for the X100... and, yes, even after futzing with LR, i still prefer the layer capabilities of CS3. i am too stubborn and set in my ways.

    Lightroom is really more for image management and printing (so i'm really excited about the SoftProof function!).

    TIA

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Go ahead and get going on LR3 it's stable and solid, LR4 has great new things but is a beta so already glitches are coming to the fore.... get yourself engrossed in LR3 and then when and if you upgrade to 4 it will be fairly painless and hopefully you won't lose work or files...

    S

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Been playing with LR4beta for 30 mins or so...

    Is it me or is the new 2012 processing engine so good it's unreal....?

    The leap from the 2003 to the 2010 engine was quantum but this... wow...!

    For example, files from my P25 back put through the 2012 processing engine in LR4 beta make them look like P45 files.... (it's early in the day and I haven't been drinking..)

    So far this upgrade of lightroom has been very intelligent, some very very good new tools and ideas to help your workflow and Adobe have listened to users requests...

    Great stuff...

    Steve

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Cam - do it in LR 3 because there will be the proper upgrade path. Sometimes the catalogues from the betas don't go seamlessly to the new version.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    thank you, Steve and Terry.

    i logically knew that was the right thing to do, but i was really really hoping someone would tell me to wait until LR 4 came out... i'm not a procrastinator, i'm really not

    i got the Fuji back this morning so it will be fun to test the new beta and soft-proofing out. i'm really interested to see how it works with b/w images!

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Well the LR4 beta still does not recognize IIQs files.
    -bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Use LR 3 for now. Lots of good stuff out there in tutes, etc and Martin Evening's books are great. I'm a very very long time user of PS but have used LR since beta 1. So many people don't realize its possibilities. If you like PS too, then do roundtrips to PS from LR. That allows you to use all of PS (layers, actions, plugins, etc) and save to LR and your database is complete. I do this all the time.

    Being able to use some plugins directly from LR is handy too, for instance Nik plugins.

    Diane

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    i got burned a few years back (hard drive failure when i was transferring all my images to Aperture) and haven't tried to manage them properly since.

    my new year's resolution was to finally be grown up and try to wrangle all my images again (they are now backed up over duplicate drives) and i decided to use Lightroom and am just getting my head around it.

    should i do this now in 3 or wait for 4 to officially come out?

    can i trust doing it in 4?

    for the record, C1 is still my choice of RAW processor for Leica images but i am enjoying LR for the X100... and, yes, even after futzing with LR, i still prefer the layer capabilities of CS3. i am too stubborn and set in my ways.

    Lightroom is really more for image management and printing (so i'm really excited about the SoftProof function!).

    TIA

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Cam,

    We all need to keep the DAM concepts to the fore...to easy to just start dumping files into folders and playing.

    Here are a few thoughts from George Jardine on filenames and DAM.

    http://mulita.com/blog/

    Also read this about Beta Limitations and Precautions:

    http://computer-darkroom.com/lr4_bet...-preview-1.htm

    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Looking forward to checking it out.

    I am a little worried that they are "dumbing it down" on the exposure/brightness/fill sliders all becoming one slider because the concept was hard for people to handle in LR3...

    Also a little worried about making the medium tone curve the linear tone curve (baking it in according to what I read). I tend to first set everything to flat and then adjust to what I want.

    So, while excited about some of the new features, I am little anxious about the possibility of a general direction of dumbing things down...

    A little time will tell, I am sure . And to be fair, they haven't messed me up going from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, so there is hope.

    Doug

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    LR3 to LR4 upgrade- is that free?

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Diane, thank you. i am still feeling my way around... i'm still using CS3 and have been manually exporting and importing as i thought it wasn't possible/compatible to do roundrips -- am i wrong? and i have the Nik plug-ins that will work in LR too, just haven't used them yet -- it is all so alien to me

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Cam,

    We all need to keep the DAM concepts to the fore...to easy to just start dumping files into folders and playing.

    Here are a few thoughts from George Jardine on filenames and DAM.

    http://mulita.com/blog/
    absolutely spot on! i really needed that as i have been going back and forth about how i am going to do this... thank you so much, Bob! i've been obsessing over this for days...

    all of my folders are named when i import them onto the computer and would like to keep them the same in LR... for instance, i do year.month.day and then keywords and what lens was used (a throw back from my Epson days when it didn't record that data).

    my question here, is will LR accept characters like a period (".") or is that considered illegal? (i'm on a mac and sometimes groan when i have to revert back to PC protocol in Adobe products when it's for my own personal use.)


    ***********
    and i just saw what Doug wrote -- no more separate sliders? i've grown very fond of fill!

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    LR3 to LR4 upgrade- is that free?
    it's Adobe -- what do you think?

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    if you don't opt for the 2012 process version do you get the old sliders back for exposure, brightness, contrast, fill and blacks?

    I am not liking the new regime - why change such basic ideas?

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    it's Adobe -- what do you think?
    Well, Corel's (Bibble Pro) After shot pro looks and works very much like LR, while being quite fast.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    Looking forward to checking it out.

    I am a little worried that they are "dumbing it down" on the exposure/brightness/fill sliders all becoming one slider because the concept was hard for people to handle in LR3...

    Also a little worried about making the medium tone curve the linear tone curve (baking it in according to what I read). I tend to first set everything to flat and then adjust to what I want.

    So, while excited about some of the new features, I am little anxious about the possibility of a general direction of dumbing things down...

    A little time will tell, I am sure . And to be fair, they haven't messed me up going from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, so there is hope.

    Doug
    just played around with an image... really don't like how they dumbed those sliders down -- AT ALL!

    if they don't give you an option to use those (couldn't they have an advanced mode or something?), this may kill wanting to use LR for any of my RAW processing... sigh.

    i will play some more and do some small prints but i'm none too happy... i like having control!

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Cam. I use CS3 also (after many years of upgrading I settled to this). You just set up the external editor in your preferences and when you right click over image it brings up 'edit in' and you just choose the CS3. Simple. It will create a tiff file beside the raw, open in PS and you can do whatever you wish in PS, "save as" and it saves th PS edits.

    I'll be back to add more. Lunch just came LOL.

    I have my folders set up like you on external drives so first I named each drive (one for most every year since 2000 until last few years with much larger drives) otherwise LR gets confused if you don't name them (this is for PC--have no idea for Mac). Then I import 'where they are'. I'm not in front of computer so not sure of wording but that's what you want and then folder order is maintained. I don't use periods so will have to check LOL. You'd think I'd know but even things have changed over the years I seem to stick to old conventions.

    Diane

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    Diane, thank you. i am still feeling my way around... i'm still using CS3 and have been manually exporting and importing as i thought it wasn't possible/compatible to do roundrips -- am i wrong? and i have the Nik plug-ins that will work in LR too, just haven't used them yet -- it is all so alien to me


    absolutely spot on! i really needed that as i have been going back and forth about how i am going to do this... thank you so much, Bob! i've been obsessing over this for days...

    all of my folders are named when i import them onto the computer and would like to keep them the same in LR... for instance, i do year.month.day and then keywords and what lens was used (a throw back from my Epson days when it didn't record that data).

    my question here, is will LR accept characters like a period (".") or is that considered illegal? (i'm on a mac and sometimes groan when i have to revert back to PC protocol in Adobe products when it's for my own personal use.)


    ***********
    and i just saw what Doug wrote -- no more separate sliders? i've grown very fond of fill!
    Last edited by Diane B; 10th January 2012 at 11:16.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    just played around with an image... really don't like how they dumbed those sliders down -- AT ALL!

    if they don't give you an option to use those (couldn't they have an advanced mode or something?), this may kill wanting to use LR for any of my RAW processing... sigh.

    i will play some more and do some small prints but i'm none too happy... i like having control!
    DEEP BREATH Everyone!

    Under Menu Options: Settings Drop Down Number 3 is Process

    2012
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    Selection of 2010 Brings all the good stuff back.

    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Cam. I use CS3 also (after many years of upgrading I settled to this). You just set up the external editor in your preferences and when you right click over image it brings up 'edit in' and you just choose the CS3. Simple. It will create a tiff file beside the raw, open in PS and you can do whatever you wish in PS, "save as" and it saves th PS edits.

    I'll be back to add more. Lunch just came LOL.

    Diane
    There is a warning that you need to update PS Camera Raw Plugin to 7.0
    which of course is not available yet...click on open anyway....stacks the edit file next to the file you chose in LR. And this occurs even if you save to a another export folder.

    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post
    if you don't opt for the 2012 process version do you get the old sliders back for exposure, brightness, contrast, fill and blacks?

    I am not liking the new regime - why change such basic ideas?
    YES see above.

    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Those that haven't should watch this video: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/whats-new-...-advancements/

    It shows how the new develop module sliders make more sense and the adjustments are more targeted. No more fill light slighter affecting mid tones, etc. I've used LR since the first version, and I'm pretty excited about these changes.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Those that haven't should watch this video: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/whats-new-...-advancements/

    It shows how the new develop module sliders make more sense and the adjustments are more targeted. No more fill light slighter affecting mid tones, etc. I've used LR since the first version, and I'm pretty excited about these changes.
    Agree with you Douglas.

    :Been working this morning...here is an old pic D3S 50mm


    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Yes, please do not take what I said as anything other than concerns. I have not tried the software yet, and so far, like I said, the upgrades to LR over the years have been good.

    *** begin soapbox ***

    My concern is a personal bias against having software dumbed down for the "masses" instead of figuring out how to keep it powerful while making it more approachable for those that need it. The second is much harder, so we often get the dumbed down approach. Really good software design leads the novice user along until they become "power users" without even knowing it. Unfortunately, the approach is more often "dumbing the software down" which never gets the user out of beginner mode and frustrates the heck out of those trying to use the software.

    *** end soapbox ***

    I am looking forward to trying out the beta asap... Unfortunately, I also have a new NAS arriving tonight. Choices, choices

    Doug

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    The LR 2012 process renders very nicely.

    Fun to look at old pictures in a new light.

    This is not so old...NEX 5N



    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    With what I am seeing it will be hard to go back to LR3....

    Train Bridge Ricoh GXR A12 M



    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by greypilgrim View Post
    Yes, please do not take what I said as anything other than concerns. I have not tried the software yet, and so far, like I said, the upgrades to LR over the years have been good.

    *** begin soapbox ***

    My concern is a personal bias against having software dumbed down for the "masses" instead of figuring out how to keep it powerful while making it more approachable for those that need it. The second is much harder, so we often get the dumbed down approach. Really good software design leads the novice user along until they become "power users" without even knowing it. Unfortunately, the approach is more often "dumbing the software down" which never gets the user out of beginner mode and frustrates the heck out of those trying to use the software.

    *** end soapbox ***

    I am looking forward to trying out the beta asap... Unfortunately, I also have a new NAS arriving tonight. Choices, choices

    Doug
    I hear ya, Doug. I don't think you'll find LR4 dumbed down. If anything, the addition of RGB curves and more targeted slider adjustments is...smarted up a bit??

    I just made my first little prints with LR4, and soft proofing is probably shutting the door on sending files to PS for me altogether. Very cool.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Question, what does the new 'White' tool do?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    LR3 to LR4 upgrade- is that free?
    Knowing Adobe, I can assure it will not be free.

    Adobe provides incremental .x updates for free, but you have to buy a new copy for whole number updates.

    Lightroom is a pretty good product (I use it quite a bit at work), but myself I prefer Aperture interface. It just feels more elegant.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Question, what does the new 'White' tool do?
    Ben,

    Read the following


    http://computer-darkroom.com/lr4_bet...-preview-1.htm

    In his summary he states:

    "Whites and Blacks are the highlight & shadow clipping controls. They are useful for adjusting how much of the highlights and shadows are clipped off, while preserving the overall tonal relationships in the image."

    Seems much more impressive when used good shadow and highlight control with less effect on the mids...


    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnius View Post

    Adobe provides incremental .x updates for free, but you have to buy a new whole version.
    Actually, upgrades to new version ie 2 to 3 and I assume 3 to 4 have been very reasonable....for the power and features in LR I think it is a bargain. But full disclosure...I have the Master Suite and C1 and NX2 and DXO and Phocus.

    Part of the serial tax to update...however the improvements are not minor.

    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I'm going to have to spend some time with it- this is feeling more like C1 in terms of splitting recover into shadow and highlight- the thing is I don't actually like that- I like having brightness and fill light- even tho they do the same things they don't do the same things. Just downloaded the beta so I can see. Making pdf books is a good thing- reps need these all the time.

    I guess the question is how do you move the midtones?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Ben,

    Read the following


    http://computer-darkroom.com/lr4_bet...-preview-1.htm

    In his summary he states:

    "Whites and Blacks are the highlight & shadow clipping controls. They are useful for adjusting how much of the highlights and shadows are clipped off, while preserving the overall tonal relationships in the image."

    Seems much more impressive when used good shadow and highlight control with less effect on the mids...


    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Hi, Robert. Watch that video I posted above. The histogram is now split into 5 sections, and they're adjusted with the following sliders: blacks, shadows, exposure (this is how you adjust midtones,) highlights, whites. It seems to make targeted adjustments more possible.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I don't know why they didnt put the clipping on the tone curve and leave the panel as it was. I appreciate the ability to set pos and neg clipping values, but I think making shadow/highlight like C1 is a bad idea, now the HDR thing is almost too hard to avoid.

    It was good that fill bled into brightness and exposure, there are compromises to be made and this is what makes an image look sensitometric- film like if you will and not synthetic or illustrative.

    being able to paint tint is helpful however.

    I think as an upgrade it might be a solution in search of a problem. Great for those who can't expose a picture correctly but a hindrance for those who can.


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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I'd say I'm capable of "exposing a picture correctly," and I'm liking these changes, so far. I've been a Lightroom user since the first version was released, but I've always preferred the way exposure is handled in other converters, like C1. The good thing is that you can just use the 2010 process version, so the changes won't affect you, if you don't want them to.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I'm sure you are-- I'm obviously tilting at windmills thinking the pace of change will ever stop...

    interesting that they let you go back the old process version- thank goodness- makes me think they are not so sold on it?

    I think its really a workflow issue, you get to know a converter and you know what you do with it and how you run your images through it and it becomes second nature. So there will be a learning curve to understand what I do with these controls most of the time.

    I think my comment on images looking sensitometric vs. illustrative is still on point- we seem to be moving further and further away from a traditional film exposure curve. The question is whether or not that response curve is arbitrary or if it works because it mimics how we see or think we see. We don't see HDR altho we do see adaptively. This is why HDR looks fake. IMO the more we move towards this kind of thing is a bad idea.

    Its not just raw converters, if I look commercial photography the trend has been for a long time towards a very fake kind of overlit aesthetic- advertisers like you to see everything so you can buy it worry free. But this is not how the world actually looks.

    Like the quote in Boogie Nights, "shadows in life baby..."

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I'd say I'm capable of "exposing a picture correctly," and I'm liking these changes, so far. I've been a Lightroom user since the first version was released, but I've always preferred the way exposure is handled in other converters, like C1. The good thing is that you can just use the 2010 process version, so the changes won't affect you, if you don't want them to.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I hear ya, Robert. I'm also not personally a fan of HDR-looking images, but, in the little time that I've had to use this new slider arrangement, my vision for my photos is still clear enough that I can easily adjust to taste, and the new targeted sliders seem to make it simple to get there, although I can see how this will be abused by some. I need to give it more time.

    As for the ability to go back to the old processing routine, Adobe has included that functionality when they've upgraded processing systems in the past, in order to appease those happy with the current way of doing things, so win win.

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Ben,

    Read the following


    http://computer-darkroom.com/lr4_bet...-preview-1.htm

    In his summary he states:

    "Whites and Blacks are the highlight & shadow clipping controls. They are useful for adjusting how much of the highlights and shadows are clipped off, while preserving the overall tonal relationships in the image."

    Seems much more impressive when used good shadow and highlight control with less effect on the mids...


    Bob
    Link isn't working Bob? Sorry.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  41. #41
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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Looks like it was truncated by this site...

    Try this?

    http://computer-darkroom.com/lr4_bet...-preview-1.htm

    Bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Thanks Bob!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  43. #43
    Senior Member eleanorbrown's Avatar
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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I think the new content aware shadow and highlight sliders are worth the price of the upgrade....lots of other great changes too. Eleanor

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    I did have a chance to try out 4 some last night. I still do not know about the tone curve baking in the old medium tone curve as linear, I will have to see how that behaves more. It seems like curve changes are a lot more sensitive than they were with the old linear, and it is really easy to overdo it, but not sure yet.

    On the new exposure and 4 different tone sliders, it looks like it works reasonably well. I was able to recover some highlights in some particularly tough photos that the previous process and controls had problems with. I had to go to spot adjustments in LR 3.6 for those.

    There are some unexpected interactions between whites and highlights (and blacks and shadows). I would try pulling down the whites to recover the top end and have little effect, but if I also pulled down the highlights, then the whites slider did have an effect. So, I do not think the zones and their controls are as pure as presented in the UI. Not complaining, mind, but interesting.

    There are a few minor glitches with how LR 4 works with the Nik Software plugins in terms of where the edited photos end up after exiting Nik, but otherwise, the interaction seemed fine.

    Doug

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Well the LR4 beta still does not recognize IIQs files.
    -bob
    Are you referring to the small IIQ files? No problem with IIQ files here but I don't use the compressed versions.
    wayne
    My gallery

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    Are you referring to the small IIQ files? No problem with IIQ files here but I don't use the compressed versions.

    Yes,
    I often use the compressed when shooting models while tethered.
    -bob

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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Yes! Soft proofing in Lightroom!!!
    +1M!!!!

  48. #48
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    Re: Lightroom 4 Public Beta posted

    Bob,

    On the latest backs can you change the file extension to.tif...? Would that help or am I barking up the wrong tree...?

    steve

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