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Thread: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Capture 4 is out folks and ready for download . so i took a shot of the kids today with the 75 Lux at about 2.8 for a Christmas picture. I did it in LR so that was my final with a little airbrushing and i did bring the corners down a little. C1 i just tried to get a nice raw process from it and just see how it looks

    LR first than C1. not a real test but just wanted to see
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Looks pretty good . i will have to get more into this to do a really good test but just wanted to see how c1 4 is looking.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  3. #3
    Shootist
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Yeah I'll add what I stated in the other thread.
    Don't bother with this version, at least as it is now.
    P.O.S.
    Of course YMMV.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Guy:

    Are you using any camera calibrations in LightRoom?

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Alright lets try this car shot i did in Flagstaff. These are both at default in LR and C1 .

    C1 looks a little sharper but my settings are carrying over it looks like so it is set for
    amount 130
    radius .8
    threshold 1.0
    luminance 25
    color 40
    5200 kelvin which it came in at.

    Lr settings these are my defaults
    amount 25
    radius 1.0
    detail 25
    luminance 0
    Color 25
    Kelvin 5500

    C1 also looks like it held the back end of highlights a little better , of course we can fix that in LR too. But this maybe real important in specular highlights . Maybe have to pull some images from the Ugly test here because that would be a good example for a test

    So lets see what defaults look like

    LR and C1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Okay same setting in LR but this time I bumped the recovery to 65 to equal C1 , this bugs me a little because i am already pushing a default to get it to equal C1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    i think 65 is pretty close the C1 image looks a touch darker overall so i will adjust a touch in LR to match the overall exposure and they should match up better. Still i don't like this in LR because i now lost some more highlight recovery, how much further can we push it before it starts getting weird.

    So 65 exposure down just a touch to match but at 65 recovery. Than C1 as original
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Okay that is a lot closer and maybe 50 would have been the better setting so let's call it that you need 50 plus in recovery to match c1 default. I have IR filters on also. now of course this is somewhat meaningless in a way because we can always make this adjustment anytime to either program they both have shadow and recovery options. BUT for me i don't always have the time to play around and many folks are like that so i tend to go were the least amount of work needed in post. Hell one reason I shoot Leica just less post work. So this could become a very important factor for some folks. Let's go find a a portrait outside in the Ugly test to try and see how the specular highlights are handled there. To me this is where you seperate the boys from the men.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Guy:

    Are you using any camera calibrations in LightRoom?
    No Robert just the defaults on sharpening have been adjusted that Jack recommends for the M8. There actually lowered a little from Adobe's default on sharpening.

    Ed i don't like where there dumping there data either i agree what ever happened to picking a folder you want to put them in or another drive which is what i did in the past on a PC. they should give you that option here. Maybe the Pro version
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Just wondering if folks are agreeing with me on this recovery issue. That LR needs to bring down the recovery to equal the flatter c1 default. Looks like LR has more contrast overall
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Guy: FTR, my recommended default LR and ACR settings for the M8 are 30, 0.5, 25, 0, 25...

    I find C1 does two things I don't like --- One is it adds a significant amount of recovery as standard; about equal to 50 in ACR/LR which while a good idea most of the time for say Canon files, is not necessarily needed for M8 files and two, it bumps contrast over the top in any of the standard film curves. Another nit is it oversharpens M8 files pretty significantly. As an example, your old car above has a halo along the roof-line. That should disappear in the LR conversion if you use my suggested settings, though in C1 you may need to crank sharpening down to the point it looks quite a bit softer than ACR/LR to get rid of it...
    Jack
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    No Robert just the defaults on sharpening have been adjusted that Jack recommends for the M8. There actually lowered a little from Adobe's default on sharpening.
    Guy:

    I meant any correction in the color section of camera calibration. The colors look pretty good in our shot with the kids.

    Robert

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Guy: FTR, my recommended default LR and ACR settings for the M8 are 30, 0.5, 25, 0, 25...

    Another nit is it oversharpens M8 files pretty significantly. As an example, your old car above has a halo along the roof-line. That should disappear in the LR conversion if you use my suggested settings, though in C1 you may need to crank sharpening down to the point it looks quite a bit softer than ACR/LR to get rid of it...
    The C1 shot of the kids was so sharp it cut poor Jack near his elbow

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Robert No , nothing done in there
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Guy: FTR, my recommended default LR and ACR settings for the M8 are 30, 0.5, 25, 0, 25...

    I find C1 does two things I don't like --- One is it adds a significant amount of recovery as standard; about equal to 50 in ACR/LR which while a good idea most of the time for say Canon files, is not necessarily needed for M8 files and two, it bumps contrast over the top in any of the standard film curves. Another nit is it oversharpens M8 files pretty significantly. As an example, your old car above has a halo along the roof-line. That should disappear in the LR conversion if you use my suggested settings, though in C1 you may need to crank sharpening down to the point it looks quite a bit softer than ACR/LR to get rid of it...
    Jack that was what i was wondering my friend is c1 actually bringing the recovery down or is LR to contrasty at those defaults. This maybe good in portraits but can also lose the sparkle in the highlights too , makes it too flat.

    Sorry i had your defaults wrong on sharpening . Here your version
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    The C1 shot of the kids was so sharp it cut poor Jack near his elbow
    LOL i did not airbrush the C1 shot. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    I was reading a thread on LUF thismornong about shooting at ISO 1250 and C1 settings. The suggestion there was to move the sharpening slider all the way down to zero. It is an interesting thread and tonight when I am home I can add a link. While I know these shots are lower ISO, I found the C1 info interesting enough to save the recomendations.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Yes for high ISO you don't want to sharpen the noise when processing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Ed i don't like where there dumping there data either i agree what ever happened to picking a folder you want to put them in or another drive which is what i did in the past on a PC. they should give you that option here. Maybe the Pro version
    No, the option is there still. It comes up when you start the process dialog. At least it did for me.

    scott

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Okay from the Ugly test. Turned sharpening all off this time in both programs

    LR comes in at 5700 kelvin and C1 comes in at 5400 kelvin and as always yellow in c1 or warmer looking than LR which still has a touch too much red. To me nothing has changed in c1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    By taste i tried to calm down the specular highlights with each recovery tool.

    Lr than C1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    C1 skin definitely better at the default, which is usual.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member fordfanjpn's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    I posted this on the LUF forum, but I'll add it here too, just in case.

    It appears that in optimizing Capture 4 for Intel-based Macs, Phase One has rendered it unusable on G5 Macs. Although it will run, when you select a folder of images, instead of images you get a bunch of triangles with an exclamation mark in the middle. I posted a question about this on the Phase One forum, and it seems that if you wait long enough (so far I haven't been able to get any results, so I can't tell if "long enough" means minutes or hours), the thumbnails will start to appear. This is odd because the beta version, while slow, did at least work. So apparently the bottom line is, if you're not running an Intel Mac, don't bother with Capture 4.

    Bill

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Thanks for that info and BTW welcome to the forum , have fun.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thanks for that info and BTW welcome to the forum , have fun.
    Thanks Guy. You and Jack have done a good thing here. It's nice to see a photography related forum where people actually talk about photography. Keep up the good work!

    Bill

  26. #26
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    I'm gonna be the odd-guy-out. I happen to like the new LE beta interface. I might put the color balance on the third instead of the second page, but I like having all these controls available.

    I suspect that the PRO users had all this stuff before.

    Yes, it's strange having C1 drop files all over the place, but I will work out a clean-up process.

    With regard to Guy's pix, I don't know what his lovely daughter should look like, but I do like the C1 version(s).

    In terms of workflow, I used it to process a shoot from 2 weeks ago. I shot 1,000 pix and used C1 for all the workflow. In C1, I selected 150 of the 1k imnages, cropped and messed with 'em, and saved as jpeg's for the client. The entire process took 4 hours (in 2 stints). I didn't think that was onerous.

    Also, I am doing processing in the beta that I used to have to do in PS. So, I managed to lose the save as tiff-use PS for some more processing-save again before going to Image Print (now there is Nobel Prize quality software!) steps. All of this make me a mostly happy camper.

    However, I'm gonna wait for my beta to expire before I blow my (single?) upgrade on this version. they might make some changes -- like cleaning up the system aspects of too many files -- and I don't want to spend my upgrade too fast.

    Also -- during my processing marathon, the beta-2 crashed several times in each session. In all, about 6 crashes during the 4 hours. Annoying, so I will anticipate that this got fixed in the release.

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Using capture one 4 today, having upgraded from my previous 3 LE version (free upgrade so why not!).
    On a G5 yes it certainly is much slower than the previous version...much slower...too slow for my liking as it gets in the way of processing my images at a pace I want....but one thing it is doing now is showing full res at 100% view which the older version did not (well at least mine didn't).
    Interface is also a bit cluttered for me.
    Also I find I now need to hold down the shift key to process multiple selected images at once.

    Bill, on my G5 I get the triangle etc but they turn to images within a few seconds, but that is still a bit of a wait.

    So overall, I think may go back to using previous version.

    Unfortunately I've used up my lightroom trial but don't remember it being too slow at all so bearing in mind I'm not planning Mac upgrade for a while (better things to spend my photo money on) perhaps I'll have to look at lightroom again.

    Marc

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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Haven't used it much, trying to figure out the new interface combined with C1 Pro. I think I will like this type of interface better once I get the hang of it. Anyway, my thumbnails pop up almost instantly on my G5.

    I do intend to move to the next Mac Pro release.

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    Senior Member fordfanjpn's Avatar
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    I finally got a reply from Phase One regarding the problem with thumbnails and images not showing up on my G5. According to them, I needed to set my files/folders to read/write. I set one folder on the hard drive where I keep my pictures to read/write, and suddenly I could access all of the folders with no problem. No idea why that worked, but it seems to have done the trick. Now I'll be able to spend some time over the holiday comparing it to Silkypix.

    Bill

  30. #30
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfanjpn View Post
    I finally got a reply from Phase One regarding the problem with thumbnails and images not showing up on my G5. According to them, I needed to set my files/folders to read/write. I set one folder on the hard drive where I keep my pictures to read/write, and suddenly I could access all of the folders with no problem. No idea why that worked, but it seems to have done the trick. Now I'll be able to spend some time over the holiday comparing it to Silkypix.

    Bill
    I know exactly why. If you look in that folder you browsed to in C1 V4 you will find a subfolder called Capture and then another subfolder under that Capture folder and then another subfolder one more layer down. Look in that last Sub-Sub-Subfolder and you will see a number of .COP files. These are the C1 V4 cache files. They will get placed in every folder you open in C1 with NO way to change where C1 V4 stores it's cache files.
    NO thank you Phase One.
    Before you changed that setting C1 V4 didn't have rights to write to that drive so it couldn't make it cache Sub-Sub-Subfolder and load your drive with files that shouldn't be there.

  31. #31
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    Re: Capture 4 is out , little comparision

    Quote Originally Posted by Shootist View Post
    I know exactly why. If you look in that folder you browsed to in C1 V4 you will find a subfolder called Capture and then another subfolder under that Capture folder and then another subfolder one more layer down. Look in that last Sub-Sub-Subfolder and you will see a number of .COP files. These are the C1 V4 cache files. They will get placed in every folder you open in C1 with NO way to change where C1 V4 stores it's cache files.
    NO thank you Phase One.
    Before you changed that setting C1 V4 didn't have rights to write to that drive so it couldn't make it cache Sub-Sub-Subfolder and load your drive with files that shouldn't be there.
    I think you probably hit the nail on the head. I can see how some people may be bothered by all the sub folders being created. However, since I'm not all that concerned about it (I'm not that neat to begin with), and since I'm more interested in results than anything else, I'll go ahead and work with it to see how it compares. If it turns out to do the best job, then I'll learn to live with its idiosyncrasies. After all it's the image hanging on the wall that matters, not the tools used to make the image or the clutter on my hard drive.

    Bill

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