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Thread: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

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    Senior Member Ario Arioldi's Avatar
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    Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    I am exploring the different options made available with the new catalog functions of CO7 and I found a workflow problem for which I am looking for a workaround.
    I prefer the referenced approach because the raw file organization remains totally independent from the SW I use and I can refer to it either from LR or Aperture or Capture One leaving it untouched (also for use with SW which might be available in the future). I personally use a chronological structure (year/month/day) since my first approach to the digital imaging many years ago, but this is not relevant.
    I keep both the picture folders and the data base folders (LR and Capture One for instance) on the root folder of the same external HD's of which I have multiple copies (clones) so that I can move them among different computers, working always on the most update version of my files.
    With LR this is easy and smooth since I can plug in any HD and the library does not loose the reference to the originals, but with CO7 this does not happen and I am forced to work offline, with some limitation (not so many ).
    I imagine that this is because CO7 is looking for the originals following the complete path while LR is probably ignoring the HD name if the originals are located in the same root folder as the library.
    It is not a very big issue because other than exporting I can do almost everything but still I see this as a limitation to my usual workflow.

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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    I also leave my files in the structure I have chosen and want any processing software to reference them and leave them in place. Moreover I must be able to process files in the software I choose - I am presently also shooting with the XPRO1 which isn't supported by Phase One but by others. The XPRO1 files can be imported into MediaPro and LR catalogs but NOT into the Capture One Catalog.
    After many trials, I have found only two options which allow that; Media PRO and LR4 used in conjunction with John Beardsworth's "Open Directly" plugin.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Another aspect of Capture One catalogs that is leaving me a bit cold is that the trip to catalog from session is apparently one-way.
    I for one happen to have come to love the session structure. I use it as a nice place to store the original raws, the finished goods and other auxiliary information such as model releases and so forth.

    Capture One now allows the importation of these sessions into catalogs. That is ok, but once done, if modifications to image adjustments ratings and so forth are mode in catalog mode, they are not replicated back down to the session. That makes the session db redundant and perhaps misleading. It might have been better if Catalog mode attached session db's as leaf nodes instead of freshly importing settings and location into the catalog.

    So I thought, well, perhaps I might use catalogs for only the finished images?
    As long as they are tiffs, that seems to be ok, but now Capture One permits direct processing of raws into psd files. Of course I wished that also included pub, since often I exceed the limitations of psd or tiff due to file size. The real issue that makes it a non-starter for me is that Capture One will not display recognize or render either psd or pub files, nor pdf (for model releases).
    I guess that if I did have a catalog structure from the beginning it may have been usable for me except for the limitations on file rendering, but for me, I will stick to Media PRO for the finished work catalog at least for now.
    Maybe I am just missing something, so further discussion might help illuminate me.
    -bob

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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Another aspect of Capture One catalogs that is leaving me a bit cold is that the trip to catalog from session is apparently one-way.
    I for one happen to have come to love the session structure. I use it as a nice place to store the original raws, the finished goods and other auxiliary information such as model releases and so forth.

    Capture One now allows the importation of these sessions into catalogs. That is ok, but once done, if modifications to image adjustments ratings and so forth are mode in catalog mode, they are not replicated back down to the session. That makes the session db redundant and perhaps misleading. It might have been better if Catalog mode attached session db's as leaf nodes instead of freshly importing settings and location into the catalog.

    So I thought, well, perhaps I might use catalogs for only the finished images?
    As long as they are tiffs, that seems to be ok, but now Capture One permits direct processing of raws into psd files. Of course I wished that also included pub, since often I exceed the limitations of psd or tiff due to file size. The real issue that makes it a non-starter for me is that Capture One will not display recognize or render either psd or pub files, nor pdf (for model releases).
    I guess that if I did have a catalog structure from the beginning it may have been usable for me except for the limitations on file rendering, but for me, I will stick to Media PRO for the finished work catalog at least for now.
    Maybe I am just missing something, so further discussion might help illuminate me.
    -bob
    Hey Bob,

    All good points and maybe we need to consider putting more Media Pro like features in CO7. What do you think? Happy with an all-in-one solution?

    You are right there is no real link from a Session to a Catalog. Use one or the other. For simplicity reasons this is the right way to go as new users to Capture One often didn't get the Sessions principal. Trying to explain two new concepts in one hit might be tough!!!

    Thanks for giving it a whirl.

    D
    David Grover
    Phase One A/S

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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Quote Originally Posted by Ario Arioldi View Post
    I am exploring the different options made available with the new catalog functions of CO7 and I found a workflow problem for which I am looking for a workaround.
    I prefer the referenced approach because the raw file organization remains totally independent from the SW I use and I can refer to it either from LR or Aperture or Capture One leaving it untouched (also for use with SW which might be available in the future). I personally use a chronological structure (year/month/day) since my first approach to the digital imaging many years ago, but this is not relevant.
    I keep both the picture folders and the data base folders (LR and Capture One for instance) on the root folder of the same external HD's of which I have multiple copies (clones) so that I can move them among different computers, working always on the most update version of my files.
    With LR this is easy and smooth since I can plug in any HD and the library does not loose the reference to the originals, but with CO7 this does not happen and I am forced to work offline, with some limitation (not so many ).
    I imagine that this is because CO7 is looking for the originals following the complete path while LR is probably ignoring the HD name if the originals are located in the same root folder as the library.
    It is not a very big issue because other than exporting I can do almost everything but still I see this as a limitation to my usual workflow.
    Hi Ario,

    I saw your post on LL and answered there...

    Thanks for exploring Capture One Catalogs!

    Yes, I guess your 'Master' hard drive (the one which other drives are then cloned on) are named differently. So if you load up a different drive with the cloned catalog it will be looking for the named drive on the master drive.

    I am trying to think of a way you could use one catalog database file (which can be backed up anyway) and your multiple clones of the images.

    How often are you chopping and changing between computers?

    D


    David
    David Grover
    Phase One A/S
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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Phase One View Post
    Hey Bob,

    All good points and maybe we need to consider putting more Media Pro like features in CO7. What do you think? Happy with an all-in-one solution?

    You are right there is no real link from a Session to a Catalog. Use one or the other. For simplicity reasons this is the right way to go as new users to Capture One often didn't get the Sessions principal. Trying to explain two new concepts in one hit might be tough!!!

    Thanks for giving it a whirl.

    D
    Yes I would be happy with a bit more of an all in one solution.
    The priorities as I see them are:
    General
    1) render previews of pdf, psd, and psb files.
    2) process to psb
    3) permit opening pdf, psd, and psb files in their default applications (or give a choice)

    Catalog:
    1) attach session (not import really) allow an arbitrary number of sessions to be attached
    2) export to session: changes in catalog metadata, settings, etc are exported to session db or even better, for attached sessions, use the session db settings all of the time and make changes directly. This might complicate the use of off-line sessions whereas the export to session might not. A more elegant solution might be session db to catalog db synchronization.


    As for including media pro features as far as I am concerned the main bits that are missing (other than the above) is the user creation of arbitrary metadata filters for searching purposes. A better metadata vocabulary management system might be useful.

    Capture One got me addicted to the session structure which is such a nice way of packaging all of the elements of a shoot together. That might be improved by the rendering and opening options I have described above to that trips out to the file system would not be necessary. I suppose that I might be able to get used to the catalog structure if it did what I really needed which would be to locate the shoot by metadata, flag, filetype, and rating. In addition, a way to take a set of images selected in the catalog and then to export a session from them that would be easily moved to another machine.

    Just some random thoughts.
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 4th November 2012 at 06:28.

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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Yes I would be happy with a bit more of an all in one solution.
    The priorities as I see them are:
    General
    1) render previews of pdf, psd, and psb files.
    2) process to psb
    3) permit opening pdf, psd, and psb files in their default applications (or give a choice)

    Catalog:
    1) attach session (not import really) allow an arbitrary number of sessions to be attached
    2) export to session: changes in catalog metadata, settings, etc are exported to session db or even better, for attached sessions, use the session db settings all of the time and make changes directly. This might complicate the use of off-line sessions whereas the export to session might not. A more elegant solution might be session db to catalog db synchronization.


    As for including media pro features as far as I am concerned the main bits that are missing (other than the above) is the user creation of arbitrary metadata filters for searching purposes. A better metadata vocabulary management system might be useful.

    Capture One got me addicted to the session structure which is such a nice way of packaging all of the elements of a shoot together. That might be improved by the rendering and opening options I have described above to that trips out to the file system would not be necessary. I suppose that I might be able to get used to the catalog structure if it did what I really needed which would be to locate the shoot by metadata, flag, filetype, and rating. In addition, a way to take a set of images selected in the catalog and then to export a session from them that would be easily moved to another machine.

    Just some random thoughts.
    -bob
    Hi Bob,

    Out of interest I did successfully import a Session into a Catalog.

    I had the Session on an external drive and simply imported it into the Catalog choosing to to store files in their 'Current Location'. The include Subfolders box was checked as well to make sure everything was imported.

    To see the complete file tree, right click in the folders tool and choose 'Show Folders Hierarchy'.

    D
    David Grover
    Phase One A/S

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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Phase One View Post
    Hi Bob,

    Out of interest I did successfully import a Session into a Catalog.

    I had the Session on an external drive and simply imported it into the Catalog choosing to to store files in their 'Current Location'. The include Subfolders box was checked as well to make sure everything was imported.

    To see the complete file tree, right click in the folders tool and choose 'Show Folders Hierarchy'.

    D
    Yes, I can do that, but if subsequent changes are made to settings such as rating or adjustments, the catalogue version and the session version (if opened as a session) will diverge. At least that is what is happening for me.
    -bob

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    Re: Working with catalogs (referenced) in CO7

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Yes, I can do that, but if subsequent changes are made to settings such as rating or adjustments, the catalogue version and the session version (if opened as a session) will diverge. At least that is what is happening for me.
    -bob
    Here is my use case:
    On my studio machine I shoot a session, then move the session to my main desktop machine.
    I import that session into a catalog.
    Now I am about to go on the road and want to work on some of the sessions in my free time.
    I copy those sessions to my laptop and away I go.
    On the road I make some changes.
    Upon returning home, I copy those modified sessions back to the main desktop machine. The catalog shows the file state at the time of the original catalog import and not as they now exist in the modified sessions.
    thanks
    -bob

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