Photoshop goes subscription only

[pfigen]

Godfrey - Have you actually read those terms and condtions? If so and you find them acceptable, then go ahead and join the CC. I can't see how anyone with have a brain in the creative field could possibly find them palatable in the least. As for alternatives to Ps and InDesign, there are none at the moment, so those of us who are professional users are literally given no choice in the matter, as we have to stay current in order to service our clients.

CaptureOne, as great as it is, and I use it daily, is no replacement for Photoshop and was never intended to be. There is nothing available that comes close and Adobe knows that. That they have us over a barrel and are turning the screws shows their customer base no respect. That once you start subscribing you can never stop if you want to keep using the software is insane. But I'm sure the accountants at Adobe are loving every minute of this.

Adobe has gone from one of the best tech companies in the mid nineties, to the bottom of the barrel today. Maybe even lower than Corel, if that was even possible.

And can you even trust them at all. When they started the CC last year they said that Ps would be available both with the traditional license and through the CC, but you can see how long that lasted. Can LR really be that far behind?

 

[Godfrey]

Except currently, if you choose not to upgrade you still have a fully working piece of software rather than with CC you are locked out without further payment. I buy a new camera as my business depends on it and it lasts until I need another, be that 1, 2, 5, 10 or 20 years.

I have no idea if you are a working photographer but you talk about "you pay the ticket and incorporate it as part of your cost of doing business" as if these costs mean nothing. How you consider this to be a better option is beyond me.

... if you choose not to upgrade you still have a fully working piece of software ... until such time as it is no longer compatible with the hardware and operating system you are using.

I'm not working photography as a business these days. I did in the past. The costs of acquiring and managing software upgrades was part of my business accounting. Unlike some folks, I *always* keep my software up to date: I believe that software and computers are depreciating assets that must be renewed from time to time. Purchasing Photoshop CC only would cost me $240/year*on the lease program. I seem to recall that the going rate for Photoshop CS5 was $600, plus or minus, and every 18 months I'd be up for another $180 upgrade fee.

From that perspective, over two years use, Photoshop CC would save my business $300. And that $240/year fee is literally nothing in the context of running a successful business. Necessary memberships in professional associations cost me as much or more, and return far less per dollar paid, and similarly have no residual value after membership lapses.

But as I said before, I don't use PS enough to warrant an upgrade from PSCS5, and I don't see myself needing it in the foreseeable future, so I really don't care enough to get into a debate.

For all those who have made Photoshop CS an essential component of their business and now don't like the fact, well, who's to blame for that? Adobe for making an outstanding product?

 

[Godfrey]

Godfrey - Have you actually read those terms and condtions? If so ...

And can you even trust them at all. When they started the CC last year they said that Ps would be available both with the traditional license and through the CC, but you can see how long that lasted. Can LR really be that far behind?

No, I haven't bothered. Don't have the time, and it's not important to me at the moment as I have no need of CC.

I use Lightroom today. If it became a burden to me to pay the Adobe Ogre for it, I could switch to something else in half an hour. All my finished work is properly exported and archived in standards based software, all my unprocessed images have plenty of options for processing available.

I have always kept my image processing options open. Even when I was running the business.

 

[gazwas]

From that perspective, over two years use, Photoshop CC would save my business $300. And that $240/year fee is literally nothing in the context of running a successful business. Necessary memberships in professional associations cost me as much or more, and return far less per dollar paid, and similarly have no residual value after membership lapses.

Except PS etc are on 18-24mounth upgrdae cycles so your figures are incorrect. We are talking about existing users (as short term the subscription model is favourable to new users) who are unhappy with Adobes CC products who will already own a fully paid licence for PS. Also, this is based on Adobes current pricing and I'm pretty sure it won't stay at that price for long.

In all the years I've had a fully paid for licence of PS I've only ever known Adobe add camera support to ACR or fix stuff that was broken on release so their proven track record of continually adding new features looks pretty dubious under the CC umbrella.

However, if CC works for you then thats great.

 

[fotografz]

... if you choose not to upgrade you still have a fully working piece of software ... until such time as it is no longer compatible with the hardware and operating system you are using.

I'm not working photography as a business these days. I did in the past. The costs of acquiring and managing software upgrades was part of my business accounting. Unlike some folks, I *always* keep my software up to date: I believe that software and computers are depreciating assets that must be renewed from time to time. Purchasing Photoshop CC only would cost me $240/year*on the lease program. I seem to recall that the going rate for Photoshop CS5 was $600, plus or minus, and every 18 months I'd be up for another $180 upgrade fee.

From that perspective, over two years use, Photoshop CC would save my business $300. And that $240/year fee is literally nothing in the context of running a successful business. Necessary memberships in professional associations cost me as much or more, and return far less per dollar paid, and similarly have no residual value after membership lapses.

But as I said before, I don't use PS enough to warrant an upgrade from PSCS5, and I don't see myself needing it in the foreseeable future, so I really don't care enough to get into a debate.

For all those who have made Photoshop CS an essential component of their business and now don't like the fact, well, who's to blame for that? Adobe for making an outstanding product?

You are conveniently leaving out some information. Plus, you keep harping on the business angle, but most PS users that are negatively impacted by this cash grab are not big businesses, or they are smaller one or two person businesses struggling in a poor economy.

It isn't just a matter of keeping processing software up to date with the latest, greatest version of PS. In past, if someone had no need for functionality beyond the version of PS they had ... (like how you are now sticking with PSCS5) ... newer versions of Adobe Camera Raw that allows processing of newer digital camera RAW files were made available. Now, you will not be able to install ACR7 for PS5, or any other future version of ACR that includes RAW compatibility with current or future new digital cameras ... or synergy with Adobe Lightroom using current or future versions of ACR.

Adobe states that the new versions of ACR WILL be made available to users of PSCS6 because they still sell PSCS6. in fact I did install ACR7, to insure PSCS6 compatibility with Lightroom 4.4 using ACR7. However, the handwriting is on the wall. When Adobe discontinues PSCS6, I seriously doubt they will continue support of it with future versions of ACR. You will be forced to the Cloud subscription, and the latest, greatest version of PSCS, whether you want it or not.

BTW, the $20 subscription for one desktop application, like PSCS, is $20, but requires a one year commitment (it is not clear what the cost is for a month-to-month plan, or wether it can be used on more than one computer). This means you are paying $240 a year for a pig-in-the-poke, rather than paying for functionality Adobe presets to you, and you then you decide if is worth the price. The price of PS upgrades was not usually an annual expense, but more like $199 every 18 months to 2 years. In effect, Adobe has more than doubled the price of PS from $199 to $480.

Yes, Adobe has made an outstanding product which people paid for ... it was the principle of make something good and continue improving it and people will pay for it. Because of that capitalistic retail process, and their consumer's loyalty, Adobe now wants you to pay for it sight-unseen. They have removed "choice" from the equation.

Frankly, this is getting close to being a software version of a monopoly.

-Marc

 

[m43]

No, I haven't bothered. Don't have the time, and it's not important to me at the moment as I have no need of CC.

I use Lightroom today. If it became a burden to me to pay the Adobe Ogre for it, I could switch to something else in half an hour. All my finished work is properly exported and archived in standards based software, all my unprocessed images have plenty of options for processing available.

I have always kept my image processing options open. Even when I was running the business.

Probably for you LR is fine
MOST Pros use PS some include LR

 

[xpixel]

Petition to Adobe:

https://www.change.org/petitions/ad...e-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

 

[MGrayson]

The only petition Adobe will recognize is falling revenue. I intend to do my part.

--Matt

 

[MMPhoto]

What is Adobe CC? To me it seems nice you can be sitting in a cafe and retouches your images, plus right after the shot with your client standing over your shoulder asking to do all the corrections on a tablet. Now you really look professional.

Really, why have I bother to buy and set-up dual monitor?

I use LR 4 for importing, managing, key wording and the images. Photoshop CS6 to correct and retouching when needed.

Maybe Adobe thinks that forcing people to work under their terms and condition will provide a new income source, Well I will be looking at others and find some other way of working without being hook and depended on them.

 

[Don Libby]

Not feeling too good the past couple days has left me with little to do other than surf the web in search of answers. I've read hundreds of posts which is slightly 55-45 (very unofficial on my part) against joining the cloud. I did a very unofficial tabulation of those who were violently against what Adobe has done and those who have joined who seemed to offer rational reasons why they did it.

To be true no one like change. I have a hard time at times accepting change. However change can be in some cases a good thing. In the end it's a very subjective thing that only the actual person making/accepting the change can offer.

I've been using Photoshop since about version 2 many many years ago. I remember a friend of mine who had bought the program offering me a chance to try it free (okay it was a bootleg copy). I remember I felt like a deer caught in the headlights. Then shortly afterwards I fully embraced it and bought a copy for myself. Chance can hurt at times.

Fast-forward a decade or two. Last year I spent close to $500 to upgrade to CS6 and Pro Show Producer. I had for several years thought of buying into the entire suite however the price was just too tight.

Fast-forward to yesterday. I logged onto my Adobe account and found that since I had a registered copy of CS6 I was eligible to join the Cloud at $19.99 per month (first 12-months) and enjoy the entire cloud. (Just so that you know, Adobe is also offering this same price to any NAPP members).

So I joined. The first thing I noticed is that I downloaded the latest upgrade directly to my computer for both CS6 and Premier Pro. Other thing I noticed was a program that will save me countless steps (and one I was thinking about buying) Adobe Acrobat. So last year I spent $473.00 in upgrades while this next year will cost me $261.72 ($19.99/mo plus $1.82/mo tax). I realize and fully expect the next 12-months will increase, however I will also have 19-products to pick and choose from that will help me grow.

Choosing the Cloud was what I feel a good business decision as Adobe will never reverse their decision and I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. There's more to the decision and I just hit the highlights.

In short I feel it was the logical thing to do for me.

Don

I also don't worry about PSD files as all my files are either the original RAW or saved as Tiff.

 

[pfigen]

Don - Did you read and understand the new terms and conditions that go along with your new "bargain" cloud subscription?

 

[Don Libby]

Yes I did and again it was a decision based on what I felt was best for me. I see this very quickly becoming a very heated/spirited debate on both sides and therefore I've decided not to participate other than to post my thoughts regarding my decision to join. Others should be free to make their decision based on their own rational (and to a point subjective) observations/feelings/investigations. In the end what's good for one person might not be good for another. I offer no defense to my action other than after what I feel was due diligence it was best for me and fit into my business plan.

Don

 

[ShooterSteve]

How can anyone in any business living in the US think $50 a month for all that software and support is too expensive? My last apartment in Miami, my cable bill was $250 a month!

 

[fotografz]

How can anyone in any business living in the US think $50 a month for all that software and support is too expensive? My last apartment in Miami, my cable bill was $250 a month!

What, they have no bread? Then let them eat cake!

:ROTFL:

As stated, some can withstand the price and see it as a value ... however, a lot of smaller businesses and freelancers (photo and graphics) are working for less and less and increases in expenses just makes it even less.

-Marc

 

[David Schneider]

Previously, Adobe came out with a new version about every 18 months. If you thought the new features were valuable, you upgraded. They kept coming out with new features to encourage upgrading.

Now they will have, for the most part, a captive audience. The incentive to come out with new version seems greatly reduced. I know if I had a captive audience complasincy would get to me and sooner or later I would be cutting back on how I conduct business. No need to bend over backwards if all my clients are locked in. Why would Adobe continue to develop Photoshop as much? I would think they use their assets to develop other products to find new markets, not one they have on subscription.

 

[TRSmith]

I hate the CC concept. It pushes all of my angry buttons and I feel betrayed by a company that I have been buying from for many, many years. Since I'm a graphic designer, my livelihood depends on an almost daily use of Adobe Illustrator, InDesign, and Photoshop. I own CS6 and will hang on as long as I possibly can before bowing to the inevitable in order to maintain my business and compete. I don't look forward to that day and secretly hope something happens in between.

If they had made the pricing more affordable, so that it actually saved me a bit of money (vs. the total upgrade cycle of 18 months to 2 years) I would feel better about it. But they chose to stick it to users in a pricing decision that feels a lot like "take it or leave it and by the way, s*rew you."

 

[Shashin]

Photoshop was always subscription. It is just now you will just pay for it monthly. Yes, the old license was permanent, but how many people actually are using a computer and an operating system that could run Photoshop V.1?

I wonder how many people spend more monthly for their smart phones?

I wonder how much of this has to do with whether it is a better system, or whether people don't like being told what to do? As long as I do not have to keep my data or do my processing in the Cloud, I am not that much bothered by it. There was no guarantee that with the current CS that the prices would stay the same and so we actually do not know if this is more expensive.

 

[Shashin]

Now they will have, for the most part, a captive audience. The incentive to come out with new version seems greatly reduced. I know if I had a captive audience complasincy would get to me and sooner or later I would be cutting back on how I conduct business. No need to bend over backwards if all my clients are locked in. Why would Adobe continue to develop Photoshop as much? I would think they use their assets to develop other products to find new markets, not one they have on subscription.

So why would smart phone companies keep developing their products--they have you locked in to a 2-year contract? Sorry, your argument is a stretch.

 

[fotografz]

Not "told" ... "forced" ... big difference.

If it were such a viable choice, then why didn't Adobe allow an actual choice? Either buy the right to permanently use every 18 months to 2 years like usual, or go to the cloud on a monthly basis. Most small business, freelancers, independent photographers and advanced amateurs know the answer to that don't they?

Choice means you determine whether the upgrades are worth it or not ... with this deal it is take it or leave it ... literally. If you do not think the future enhancements are worth the relentless monthly payments you can leave the cloud and have nothing. How's nothing sound to you?

The PS v1 argument has nothing to do with this. Of course people upgraded ... but they didn't have to on someone else's schedule ... they could do it when it was worth it to them, even if it was 4 years later instead of 2 years. Now you can't do that.

-Marc

 

[Shashin]

So, don't use Photoshop. No one is forcing you to use that program...

Actually, the PS V1 argument is germane. There is no such thing as a "permanent" license, at least not if you actually use the software. You were simply subscribing. Now, you simply pay by month. For small outfits, that could be much easier--easier to pony up a small chunk of money every month, than a whole bunch every year and a half or so. For the amateur, the cost is questionable. For people earning money from this, if $50 per month is going to tank your business, then don't blame Adobe, there is some else wrong.