Some scanner help would be appreciated

[emmawest72]

Well...

I just bought a epson v700 today as my old epson 2450 died a few days ago. So hopefully I will be able to do some testing...i'm on my second scan now and I'm quite impressed.

 

[viablex1]

Viablex,

Do you have some straight scans from films like fuji 160c or portra 160 or 400 you could show as I'm planning on getting a new scanner soon?

Thanks.

fuji 160c I used digital ice but not wet mounting, Lars don't play!!!

 

[viablex1]

The cool thing about wetmounting on a Coolscan MF scanner is that it's really easy and you can work fast - between the fluid and ICE, almost all defects are taken care of. No need for dust paranoia like on a drum scanner - and believe me with a drumscanner you have to be really paranoid.

As a parenthesis, my dusting setup for my drum scanner consists of a 240-120V transformer, a small compressor (for airbrushing) with a humidity filter, an airtool hose, a Wilkerson coalescing filter, and a Simco TopGun ionizing airgun. The coalescing filter is a bit expensive (a few hundred dollars, cheaper on ebay) but really scrubs the air clean from oil as well as humidity. The TopGun emits both positive and negative ions into the air stream, which gets rid of any and all static, period. It's quite a setup but if you spend up to an hour dusting each 8x10" scan then it's worth it. Great for cleaning keyboards and camera sensors as well.

okay you knew that this question qould be posed, what did you do to modify the holder to allow wet mounting, and what fluid do you use!! that scan is off the hook, do you use it8 targets?

 

[Lars]

okay you knew that this question qould be posed, what did you do to modify the holder to allow wet mounting, and what fluid do you use!! that scan is off the hook, do you use it8 targets?

I gutted the 35mm filstrip holder so only the frame remained, then had a sheet of glass cut to fit inside the opening. I had to shim the glass carefully to get it in the same focus plane across the surface. Then silicone sealant along the edges to keep any fluid from leaking out. In the photo you can see the underside masked with black tape to keep stray light away.

If I redid the tray I would have used thinner glass, it's a large heavy sheet which means the stepping motor in the scanner has to work harder and will probably wear more.

Also note at the right side that the coding holes are masked to be the same as on the MF filmstrip holder, this will tell the scanner to scan the MF width.

For fluid I first started out with lighter fluid from a tobacco store, which is pure naphta. Now I have a drum scanner so I use drum scanner fluid which is KAMI. I'm not sure where I bough cover sheets, someone sells cut sheets specifically for Coolscan 8000/9000.

Yes have some IT8 targets, the 35mm targets are batch measured so I'm not sure how exact they are. My 4x5 targets (for the drum scanner) are individually measured but more expensive.

BTW if you're like me you'd be worried about soaking your precious film originals in a solution. I left a slide in the solution for a few days, to verify that nothing bad would happen. That piece of film had never been so clean

 

[viablex1]

wow you are just "the man" you have really inspired me !!

 

[robmac]

Lens cleaning fluid also works fine if KAMI isn't easily available.
Nice job Lars. If you can find an efficient way to wet scan, it w/o questions yields nice results.

 

[robmac]

Example to show the detail and low-grain possible with 160NC (lighting sucked, but simply screwing around testing lens). I use this example because the same shot taken seconds later using the same lens on a 30D was identical in terms of resolution. I had to double check exif when I printed them as thought I'd done two copies of the 30D file.

Snapshot crop of an unprocessed scan from a 5000ED (similar performance to 9000). 16x sampling, dry mounted. No USM, no PP what soever - just cropping and converting for posting here. R8 using 90/2.8 latest.

 

[Lars]

While we're on the subject of scanning fluids - a warning is motivated.

Naphta is a clear petroleum-based liquid that evaporates without leaving any trace. It's probably not good to inhale it, so make sure you are doing the mounting in a ventiilated area.

In Sweden there is a product sold under the name "lacknafta", it's a paint cleaner based on naphta. lacknafta also contains various oil products that do not evaporate, so it is NOT suitable for wetmounting.

In general, a good wetmounting liquid should:
- Evaporate clean, leaving no trace. Try on a clean glass surface.
- No harm film. Stick a neg into the liquid for a few days to test.

KAMI also sells a drum cleaner solution and a film cleaner. The drum cleaner is for removing tape glue residuals left from the mounting tape used with drums. There is no need to use tape with a flat scanning surface so no need to look at that product. KAMIs film cleaner does a good job, but the mouting fluid itself cleans the film so well that there seldom is a need for additional cleaning.

 

[viablex1]

point well taken it doesn't take too much exposure to induce RADS in people, this is why I am glad I don't have a darkroom actually, inhaling chemicals in general is not wise especially over time.

I found a premade wet mounting tray but it is pricey and a a place to buy kami fluid so I may try that!!

 

[jlm]

having never tried wet mounting...how messy is it? i assume you add a layer of solvent to the glass and , what? squeegee down the negative?

 

[Lars]

In the case of a flat tray with a strip of film it's really easy:

1. clean the glass
2. put a few drops of fluid on the glass
3. place the film on the glass
4. place few more drops of fluid on the film
5. place a cover sheet over the film
6. use a squeegee or a rag to push out any bubbles from the film.

The fluid evaporates slowly from the gap between the cover sheet and the glass, you have a few hours to do the scan. Then just remove the cover sheet, pick up the film and let remaining fluid evaporate (a few seconds) and put the film back in storage. Reuse the cover sheet.

With drum scanning it's much more of a process to wetmount, as the film is wetmounted on the outside of the drum and has to stay in place - fluid and all - while rotating at high speed. I have a mounting station for my drum scanner, and four drums so I can mount on one drum while the scanner is running. It takes me 5-10 minutes to properly mount an 8x10 on a drum.

 

[Lars]

I found a premade wet mounting tray but it is pricey and a a place to buy kami fluid so I may try that!!

viablex1,
If you decide to make your own tray make sure to talk to me so I can post some more detailed photos of my tray, and give you some specific tips.

 

[Cindy Flood]

viablex1,
If you decide to make your own tray make sure to talk to me so I can post some more detailed photos of my tray, and give you some specific tips.

Lars,
I would really appreciate it if you would give us information on doing this ourselves. The purchased options are very pricey.

 

[viablex1]

thanks lars I really appreciated that, will do for sure...

 

[Jonathon Delacour]

If you decide to make your own tray make sure to talk to me so I can post some more detailed photos of my tray, and give you some specific tips.

Lars, many thanks for valuable information you've provided in this thread. I have a Nikon 9000 but hadn't considered wet mounting. I'd certainly be interested in learning more about how you created your modded holder (though I'm not so confident about my handcrafting skills).

Out of interest, I spent some time researching some commercial alternatives:
* Cachet Image Mechanics Fluid Mount Tray (US$500) plus Starter Accessory Kit (US$160)
* ScanScience kits - US$129 for 35mm or MF kit, US$229 for Dual 35mm + MF kit.

US$760 for the Image Mechanics solution is way more than I'd be willing to pay but the ScanScience kits, which use the holders provided with the scanner, are a lot more reasonable. I'm wondering if anyone has used the ScanScience kit for MF scanning?

 

[Lars]

Jonathan,
I got my cover sheets from Freestyle but like you found the Cachet tray overpriced.

At that time (2005) the ScanScience kits were not yet on the market. Their pricing on fluid seems ridiculous though, through the roof. Their styrofoam cup test in their marketing is not so relevant and was probably tailored to fit their fluid - they found a material that competitor's fluid (Kami?) dissolves but their fluid does not. Kami has a long track record with professional scanning.

It's too bad that ScanScience doesn't show any photos of their solution, I'd be curious to see how they use the existing tray for scanning.