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Thread: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

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    Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    I've relucently upgraded from 3.7.8 to C1 Pro 4.7 and am having trouble with noise when I never did prevoiously. I've tried playing with various sharpness and noise setting but I'm still noticing more noise then I ever did with 3.7.8.

    I'm using Canon 1dsMk2 and 40d and at 100ISO so noise shouldn't be a problem.

    Any advice on settings would be appreciated. I'm not interested in third party software as that just doesn't fit my needs.

    Also, where on the net do all the C1 users hang out? Phase One has killed off it's own forum, presumably because they got sick of all the bad comments about V4.

    Thanks JJ

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    JJ,

    there is an issue with NR settings in C1 if you set your defaults to something different than the factory defaults. They are working on a fix, so for right now leave the Lum and Color NR settings at their factory defaults and adjust from there.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Thanks Jack

    Does that mean that you also need to leave the sharpening settings to default or just the noise reduction settings? Also, any idea what the defaults are, I'm pretty sure I've altered those to a new default setting?

    Thanks
    JJ

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    No, it is a specific issue with the NR defaults. If you click on the little arrow at the top of the NR dialog, you will see an option to reset to factory defaults.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    ooh! thank you for starting this thread and letting others know! about to upgrade to PRO as i have a large number of photos from my nephew's bar mitzvah -- some of them in very low light... i would have been quite cranky had i not known ahead of time!

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Cam:

    The NR in C1 works normally if the defaults are not reset off factory base settings. The issue crops up when you alter the factory defaults, so it should work fine on current images.

    Jack
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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    i reset them to factory as you recommended -- so all should be fine.

    i was just thanking JJ and yourself for bringing it to my attention. if i hadn't known, i would have been very grumpy and frustrated.... one of the joys of this forum and all that -- a heads up for potential issues nipped in the bud!

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    No, it is a specific issue with the NR defaults
    I have the same issue with sharpening as well. When I set a sharpening default the values are shown in the numeric fields, however the C1 default is set. The same with NR. Tricky!
    But as to the sharpening you can choose one from the predefined sharpening settings (e.g. "version 3 soft look") and set it as default - this way it works. You just can't set your customized settings as default.
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Sure you can, do it all the time. Sharpening amounts you can set as a default, Clarity you can not and that needs to be changed
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sure you can, do it all the time. Sharpening amounts you can set as a default, Clarity you can not and that needs to be changed
    Guy, yes you can set certain settings, save them as default and when you apply your default the respective values appear in the numeric fields as expected. The strange thing is: in the background the C1 setting is applied - either way which values are shown in the numeric fields!
    Try something obvious: set 40-0.5-0 as sharpeing values. Save them as setting. Set them as default. Click on an image and apply the default by hitting the arrow icon. Now open the little menu with your sharpening settings and choose the stored setting 40-0.5-0 ... you will notice that first now the right setting is applied.
    So you can save settings and apply them - but you can't set them as default. It's the same with NR.
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Might of lost you here but every image that comes in is set to a customized default that I set. Regardless of file or camera
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    every image that comes in is set to a customized default that I set. Regardless of file or camera
    same here! But now check if it is REALLY your setting! As I mentioned: the values show up in the numeric fields correctly... so far so good. But the values are not applied!

    Try my little example I just posted...
    - set a very low sharpening setting
    - save it as preset
    - then safe it as default
    - go to another image
    - set the sharpening to your newly saved default by clicking on the little arrow icon
    - now set the sharpening to the same values but not by clicking on the arrow icon but by choosing it from list of your presets

    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    I'm getting identical settings.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm getting identical settings.
    so this seems to be a bug that only occurs on certain OS' or configurations. I'm on a new Mac Pro with 10.5.7 and the first version of C1 installed on this machine was version 4.7. Nevertheless I made a clean install when updating the last version (4.8.1.).
    In the Phase Forum Windows users reported about that, too.
    Really strange.
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Just to make it clear again...

    First grab - no sharpening.

    Second grab - I've set the values 40-0.5-0.0 as default and clicked on the arrow icon to apply my default. The values 40-0.5-0.0 show up.

    Third grab - I've opened the little menu and applied 40-0.5-0.0 from the list of saved presets.

    Beyond doubt second and third grab should show the same, but they don't.
    Tough 40-0.5-0.0 is set in the second grab C1 applies its own default in the background.
    It's the same with NR. So be careful especially regarding luminance NR that is set to 25 even for ISO50 shots. First if you set your settings manually (or from the preset list) the respective values are really set.

    Regards, Thomas
    Last edited by thomas; 15th January 2011 at 08:38.

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Yep, I think it is the same issue as the noise? I just set up a preset with my values and apply it, and of course did the same for NR. Stupid workaround, but it's all we have until they fix allowing our own new defaults to stick --- In fact, I really want this for EVERY tool! On the other side of the coin, the factory defaults while a bit aggressive for my tastes are not horrible for most images, though it can add some minor artifacts to high frequency detail areas...
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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Yep, I think it is the same issue as the noise?
    exactly the same.
    The nasty thing with NR is that it's really hard to see especially in low ISO captures. I mean... if the slider is set to zero would you think about it? No. But finally you see there is something strange in the images and you go back and search what is going on.
    This is a kind of bug I find very serious.
    Strange that on some machines it doesn't seem to occur.
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    This is a kind of bug I find very serious.
    I agree. This needs to get fixed ASAP!
    Jack
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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Jack called me and explained it verbally, sometimes takes a moment to get through my dense head. LOL

    I agree needs to be fixed NOW

    Have to try it again on my machine . I have 4.8 loaded
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Jack called me and explained it verbally, sometimes takes a moment to get through my dense head. LOL
    or maybe just not reasonable explained due to my bad English - sorry!
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Stupid workaround
    You can store the settings of sharpening, NR and maybe your prefered camera profile as well ("outdoor daylight"?) in a Style... this seems to work fine.
    Once you do not trust the software I guess you are still going to check every setting on every single capture. But maybe you'll give it a try... as far as I figured out here it works as it should.
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Don't think you can generate a style and save it? And recipes don't save adjustment data. Regardless, I almost always tweak the WB and exposure panels on an individual basis anyway, so at least saving presets in the tools that allow it is some help...
    Jack
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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Don't think you can generate a style and save it?
    you can. At least on my machine I can... I set my prefered camera profile, my NR settings and my sharpening settings (sharpening in my case for preview only) and save it as a Style. Now I can apply the style to the first capture within a session, copy adjustments and apply them to all captures within the session. For the rest I set everything else individually as well - so I just save to set the camera profile, the NR settings and the sharpening setting.
    Regards, Thomas

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    you can. At least on my machine I can... I set my prefered camera profile, my NR settings and my sharpening settings (sharpening in my case for preview only) and save it as a Style. Now I can apply the style to the first capture within a session, copy adjustments and apply them to all captures within the session. For the rest I set everything else individually as well - so I just save to set the camera profile, the NR settings and the sharpening setting.
    Regards, Thomas
    Oh yes, I understand you now, under the Styles tab (the one under the icon that looks like a document) you can save adjustment sets as a custom style -- thanks for the reminder. A follow-on note to use, you have to first copy your set of adjustments to the clipboard and only after that can you save them as a custom set.
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    A follow-on note to use, you have to first copy your set of adjustments to the clipboard and only after that can you save them as a custom set.
    yes - otherwise the adjustments clipboard is greyed out. Sorry, forgot to note that step.

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    Re: Noise problems with CO Pro 4.7

    If you do lens correction for a certain lens say the 45mm well it will apply the distortion as well. Make sure you don't do selection distortion as a style unless the whole folder or session is the same lens. I think the best thing is save the basics like Noise, sharpening, clarity as the style than do the normal stuff with just copy adjustments and apply as you go. I have to teach this in two weeks so glad you pointed this out Thomas and help discover it and Jack for working on it with me on the phone. Okay back to my deadline for this project , produce a book by Tuesday. Big program book too.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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