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Thread: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

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    C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    the newest version of C1 Pro will not let me generate a preview of the one image i want -- all the others seem to be fine (pics before and after)....

    i'm on a 17" mac powerbook and my shots are DNG from an M8.

    any workarounds?

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Is it corrupt the file Cam. Can you say open it in ACR
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    i have honestly never had this happen before and i am NOT enjoying it! one picture? one out of an entire card?

    is this a special M8 feature?

    honestly.... i've had a card go bad before, but never one single image.
    Last edited by cam; 11th June 2009 at 07:35. Reason: eta

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Hi Cam:

    This is an interesting issue and Guy and I have a theory... For whatever reason, bad or finicky card readers seem to create random file corruptions, but -- and this is the weird part -- they seem to do it far more often to DNG's

    Anyway, our advice is if your card reader is older that it might be time to consider a replacement. Also, try another card reader before trashing that file off the card.
    Jack
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    As Jack mentioned we both have seen this in the past and it mostly comes down to a faulty card reader and not the OS or the program itself and even the camera. Reason my first question was it a corrupt file. Take that card hopefully you still have the images on it and try a different reader or go to a friends machine and try. Also as always format the card in camera before use not that this is the exact cause but stuff happens here some times as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    thank you, Guy and Jack.

    i always always always (did i mention, always?) format my card in the camera i will be shooting it in. i learned very early on to do this, and i am true blue about this.

    my card reader is a year-and-a-half old (is that old?), but trying a new one didn't provide better luck. it happens to be a fancy-dancy Ducati card, where you can fold it and it turns into a usb key so i tried that. no luck either.

    i will try again on different machines as i'm now a little loathe to use that card so i won't wipe it (i got is a joke, but it's come in handy on the fly when i've forgotten to bring my reader).

    now i happen to usually shoot DNG and JPEG b/w basic if i will be checking files on my screen, even though it's painfully slow, so i do have a b/w JPEG. and, to be honest, this wasn't a once in a lifetime shot (i chickened out of taking one of those today ) either -- simply one of the more interesting i've taken in quite a while.... in other words, i do have something.

    but now i'm a wee bit spooked. should i always shoot DNG and JPEG fine in colour with minimal processing to cover my a$$?

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    I know all about covering your a$$. I always try and shoot 2 images at least if possible , which not always is but you have the right mindset which is good to see. Murphy's law only got more prominent in digital. Keep us posted though and if there is anything we can do let us know.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Cam,

    This is precisely why many pros are now demanding their work bodies write to two cards simultaneously. Anyway, shooting RAW + jpeg is a good idea for the same reason, and I now do just that with every camera I own that allows it. Especially now that the M8 can take large cards, it is not a space eater like it was when we could only use 2G cards...
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    mine are more of the blink and it's gone sort, so duplicates are not usually an option.... like i said, it was kind of a cool photo but c'est la vie....

    i do appreciate all the help. am going to have to reconsider how i shoot now or maybe just use my Epson for a few days -- nice, safe, and dependable files. guess i just never realised how lucky i've been!


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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    ooh, Jack -- we must have crossed posted.... what are recommendations for setting the most neutral JPEG on the M8? (i realise you don't have it any more, but....) i will miss my b/w previews very much (tweaked for screen viewing more than anything), however, i know a nice neutral JPEG fine is more important to have as back up than amusing myself.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Cam,

    First off, I *love* the photo above -- looks like Warf is riding the subway Hillary . Moreover, it works in B&W!

    As re set-up, here is where you're limited. On the M8, to get the nifty B&W preview you need to set the jpeg color to B&W. Unfortunately that means that only a B&W is generated on the jpeg... For back-up, yes you'll want a neutral toned image, and IIRC, I used the M8's portrait or natural standard and Adobe RGB, but of course this means you'll lose the B&W preview.

    So my solution would be use two of the three user presets, one for back-up color jpeg and the other for B&W. My logic being if you're shooting for the b&W anyway, no real harm if your back-up jpeg is only B&W, right?
    Jack
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    thank you, Jack! i do too which is why i tried to save it. it was always meant for b/w (though the red streaks were fun), but i prefer to do my own tweaking.... there are graphic elements that i will do my best to recover (i think i had contrast on medium high) once i'm done sulking.

    guess i can always just neutral out the b/w JPEG (this was basic -- will always use fine from now on). will have to think about what i want to do about colour as i've been used to shooting RAW & b/w JPEG for so long, i've found i have trouble seeing the image on the screen as black and white even though i have no trouble conceptualizing it that way as i shoot. guess it's time to get over it!

    and, whilst i love bringing you amusement, i have absolutely no idea what you're referring to -- feel a bit like a dunce here, or maybe that i've been too long from the States.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    and, whilst i love bringing you amusement, i have absolutely no idea what you're referring to
    To my warped sense of humor, the upper half of the woman's profile on the left is similar to Hillary Clinton's while the man's profile is very similar to the TV character Warf, a Klingon from the Star Trek TV series
    Jack
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    LOL!

    je suis amÚricaine

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    This is a bit of a hijack, apologies CAM. First let me say that I agree that the photo is wonderful. A very real sense of a fleeting moment, right down to the motion.

    The hijack part: I've just discovered two things about C1 Pro. First the good news. I accidentally opened some of my old Nikon NEFs in C1 and discovered that I like the results waaaay better than any other software. I had always done them in LR, maybe out of habit since that's what I started with when I originally bought the Nikon 4 or 5 years ago. And I just kept doing it, saving C1 exclusively for the M8. But wow, I actually LIKE some of the Nikon stuff that I could never get to work before.

    The second thing is a question. My normal work flow is to start in C1 and then export a .tif to PS. I recently noticed that the resolution setting for the output was at 300 ppi. I'm pretty sure the native resolution of the M8 RAWS is 240, so am I inadvertently doing a slight uprez when outputting at 300?

    Thanks!

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post

    The second thing is a question. My normal work flow is to start in C1 and then export a .tif to PS. I recently noticed that the resolution setting for the output was at 300 ppi. I'm pretty sure the native resolution of the M8 RAWS is 240, so am I inadvertently doing a slight uprez when outputting at 300?

    Thanks!
    The PPI setting does not affect net output *pixel* dimensions, but will affect output image size dimensions since they are based on your base PPI setting. You can also increase the output file size at the same time in C1 by setting "scale" to something other than 100%. It happens to do a very good job even up to 200%, but is not something I recommend as a regular practice over controlled uprezzing in CS.
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    First off, I *love* the photo above -- looks like Warf is riding the subway Hillary . Moreover, it works in B&W!
    yes yes yes !!!!!

    THAT was the very first face I saw too, the chap who has half a chicken glued to his forhead. Actually I thought he was collaged into it, until I realised the illusion.

    WOW Cam, now his is what I call a picture that works. Fantastic!

    LOL, If you look long enough around you, I am sure you find all kind of characters, Gollum (Lord of the Rings) for a fact I saw in Dublin last month when I bought a G10.

    As for that file corruption, I can add one more to that, I have a sony alpha file that once you click on it from the filmstrip for preview..... Kabooom..... C1 crashes. I reported that to Phase HQ, but have not heard anything back. <shrugs>

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    I have a sony alpha file that once you click on it from the filmstrip for preview..... Kabooom..... C1 crashes
    is it a new file or an older file with settings or even once processed with a former version of C1?
    If it's an older file delete the repsective settings (*.cos) and the preview file (*.cop) of the image.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The PPI setting does not affect net output *pixel* dimensions, but will affect output image size dimensions since they are based on your base PPI setting. You can also increase the output file size at the same time in C1 by setting "scale" to something other than 100%. It happens to do a very good job even up to 200%, but is not something I recommend as a regular practice over controlled uprezzing in CS.
    Thanks for that jack!

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    is it a new file or an older file with settings or even once processed with a former version of C1?
    If it's an older file delete the repsective settings (*.cos) and the preview file (*.cop) of the image.
    Hi Thomas,

    file is alpha 900, C1 was brandnew installation, latest version. I'll try that, thanks!

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    The second thing is a question. My normal work flow is to start in C1 and then export a .tif to PS. I recently noticed that the resolution setting for the output was at 300 ppi. I'm pretty sure the native resolution of the M8 RAWS is 240, so am I inadvertently doing a slight uprez when outputting at 300?
    Hi TRS, on another note re workflow, another thing to check on may be is the color space you use before you export to TIFF. In my case there was no ProPhoto RGB in the waaaay too long list of profiles (printers, screens etc) So it used the Adobe RGB instead. I had to copy the file manually into the directory. Check that you have it set as ProPhoto, and if it is not there just copy this file to user/library/colorcsync/profiles and it will appear in the list. The file is named ProPhoto.icm.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Thanks Georg, I do have ProPhoto in there. Good tip though.

    Tim

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    C1 was brandnew installation, latest version.
    hmhm... delete the file (file -> delete permanently) and reload it from your archive.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    In my case there was no ProPhoto RGB in the waaaay too long list of profiles (printers, screens etc)
    I love that list!
    Using ProPhotoRGB in C1 is colour management reduced to absurdity. C1 works with input profiles (the camera profiles) and whatever you adjust will never exceed the colour space of the camera profile. When converting to ProPhoto by processing you gain exactly nothing as this conversion is done relative colormetric (either way what you set in the preferences) - the colours remain exactly the same but are translated to ProPhoto.
    If you want to adjust certain colours later on in Photoshop that exceed the colour space of the camera you might use ProPhoto. But be aware that in this case you edit colours no printer will ever be able to print.
    Set the output profile to "embed camera profile" and leave the file in that colour space (i.e. set the colour preferences in Photoshop to preserve embeded profiles when opening files).
    Does not make so much sense to edit colours the camera didn't capture, no?

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    I understand what you are saying Thomas, however, I believe it does not hurt to use the largest color gammut and have all my files in that space already safed for the future instead of having to go back in may be one or two years time to do that job.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    I understand what you are saying Thomas, however, I believe it does not hurt to use the largest color gammut and have all my files in that space already safed for the future instead of having to go back in may be one or two years time to do that job.
    basically true... if you know how to handle such a large gamut in Photoshop.
    But there won't be a future that will take full advantage of ProPhoto. And if so you just convert the TIFs from the camera profile to ProPhoto (with an action in batch mode Photoshop will do it for you in some nights...).
    Anyway... was just a side note to think about and if you feel fine with ProPhoto keep your workflow as it is.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Thomas, I am always grateful for others opion and experience on such things! Btw. This is why I like getdpi so much, the quota on useful exchange is extremly high, and the atmosphere outstanding.

    I think, the perfect workflow does not exist and is a more or less evolving situation, determined by personal needs and the variety of tools available to us.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    But then on the other side of the coin...

    Once you are in 16-bit, whichever color-space you save the file won't affect file size at all. If you want to be totally progressive and anal about efficiency in your color space choice, then I suggest you invest in Joe Holmes' D-Cam 4 and D-Cam 5 sets. If you really want to stay in 8-bit, then look into his D-Cam 3 space.

    The issue here is having a color space that holds 100% of your capture device's colors -- even if output devices get to the point they can exceed the capture device's space, it is moot since all you can ever show is what you captured.

    The real advantage of Prophoto is it is so large, it is unlikely any capture OR output device will exceed its size anytime soon... The disadvantage is it is a gamma 1.8 space, not a gamma 2.2, so many image editors mess it up with contrast or saturation changes. Here is where Joe's saturation profiles help immensely as they're based on the proper gamma. This brings me back to Joe's D-Cam 5 space as probably the ideal, but it is not an accepted standard like Prophoto...

    PS: FWIW, the same thing was said of the Adobe RGB space about 4 years and longer ago, that it was large enough for real-world devices... And right now, we've got cameras and printers exceeding Adobe RGB in some areas. As Yogi Berra said, "Pre-planning must be done in advance!"
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    I find the business of gamma to be pretty confusing. There seem to be conflicting ideas about what is correct. Are there some simple guidelines for setting the correct gamma while profiling your monitor?

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Hi Tim:

    Yes, set it to 2.2 because that is what is the current defacto standard. Earlier use of 1.8 gamma had to do with providing better monitor proof correlations to offset printing (CMYk) output on a Mac. Nowadays, monitors and proofing engines are similar between systems, so 2.2 works very well for most all output applications.

    What it means with Prophoto in a practical sense, is that when you increase say the saturation or contrast sliders in CS, colors do not change in the exact relation they should and color shifts can occur. In most cases we are only adding a little bit of either, so the net shift goes unnoticed. Where it becomes problematic is on larger adjustments -- but then those get so obviously "changed" that the loss of color accuracy probably isn't all that concerning anyway.

    One way of dealing with it on a contrast adjustment layer (usually a curve) is to set that layer's blend mode to "Luminosity" so that in effect only contrast is changed and hue/saturation are not affected.
    Jack
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    But then on the other side of the coin...
    Jack, I think we won't go too deep into this topic... but some short notes as far as I understand it.

    In Capture One you have a camera profile as input profile. Basically you edit your file in this profile whilst the output profile is considered as proof profile for the respective preview, histogram and RGB values.

    In the case of TRC matrix profiles as output profiles (sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto...) the colour conversion is necessarily relative colormetric. Now, if you convert from your camera profile to any TRC matrix profile you preserve the identical LAB values but they are just translated to another colour space - nothing else. Whether you convert to any other profile straight from C1 or do it afterwards in Photoshop is absolutley the same (too, if you convert it to another colour space in 10 years or so...). So you do not store a single colour more or less if you convert to ProPhoto (the same applies to JH's Dcam colour spaces as these profiles are TRC matrix based - correct me if I'm wrong).
    But what you could do is to set ProPhoto or D-cam5 as input profile in C1 (if this is possible, I don't know... but would like to know...) - in this case you would edit (and store) the captures right in this colour space.
    In any case the input profile determines which colours you store - not the working space you are converting them to. Or you use the Phase input profiles and do all further editing in Photoshop - in this case you may profit from the wider gamut as well.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    What it means with Prophoto in a practical sense, is that when you increase say the saturation or contrast sliders in CS, colors do not change in the exact relation they should and color shifts can occur.
    But this applies to ALL Gamma coded working spaces. First if your working space is L* coded (ECI RGB V2, ProStar) the dispersion of luminance is the same as in LAB, i.e. an equidistant luminance dispersion.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    I find the business of gamma to be pretty confusing. There seem to be conflicting ideas about what is correct. Are there some simple guidelines for setting the correct gamma while profiling your monitor?
    For the monitor the TRC is not that important as in a colour managed workflow the different Gammas and TRCs are translated into each other. This apllies espescially to 16bit workflows on displays with internal16bit processing.
    Basically you get the best visual performance (this is what the monitor is for) when you set it to a TRC matching that of your preferred working space as in this case there is no further transformation of Gamma/TRC on the way from the image to the display. I.e. - in this case you will have the smoothest gradations on screen and should not expect banding (if the display is linearized accurate).
    So if your preferred working space is ProPhoto... set the display to Gamma 1.8. If you use AdobeRGB set it to Gamma 2.2.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Thanks thomas!

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post

    In the case of TRC matrix profiles as output profiles (sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto...) the colour conversion is necessarily relative colormetric. Now, if you convert from your camera profile to any TRC matrix profile you preserve the identical LAB values but they are just translated to another colour space - nothing else. Whether you convert to any other profile straight from C1 or do it afterwards in Photoshop is absolutley the same (too, if you convert it to another colour space in 10 years or so...). So you do not store a single colour more or less if you convert to ProPhoto (the same applies to JH's Dcam colour spaces as these profiles are TRC matrix based - correct me if I'm wrong).
    Correct -- but when you start working on the file in post, you can change colors to the point they move beyond the confines of the original capture space -- and why I convert to Pro upon C1 output.

    And yes, in C1 -- at least the Pro version -- you can select any space loaded on your system to output to, so I have all of Joe Holmes' options in there as well as Pro, Adobe and sRGB, etcetera...
    Jack
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    But this applies to ALL Gamma coded working spaces. First if your working space is L* coded (ECI RGB V2, ProStar) the dispersion of luminance is the same as in LAB, i.e. an equidistant luminance dispersion.
    Yes indeed. But again, the amount of changes we are making to an image is usually pretty small from a relative standpoint, so the error effect from being 0.4 gamma off is minimal. And yet again, we can minimize this issue further with proper editing technique...

    EDIT: I am an idiot -- I mean 2.2 gamma is now the standard. Don't know why I stuck on 2.0! So for every 2.0 I have above, please insert 2.2!
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    And yes, in C1 -- at least the Pro version -- you can select any space loaded on your system to output to, so I have all of Joe Holmes' options in there as well as Pro, Adobe and sRGB, etcetera...
    you can select them as outut profile, but not as input profile...!?

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Now I don't feel to badly for being confused. I'm headed for the "set it and forget it" mode.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    PS: Note that gamma is contrast and if you look at a gamma curve for 1.8 and 2.2, the three will track very closely to begin with.
    hmhm... no... see attachments (source: http://www.colormanagement.org/downl...ing-Spaces.zip )
    Last edited by thomas; 15th January 2011 at 08:40.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Now I don't feel to badly for being confused. I'm headed for the "set it and forget it" mode.
    :-) so...just do it... set something and forget it :-))

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    you can select them as outut profile, but not as input profile...!?
    Why would I? I want to select my camera profile as the input profile... (And in C1 I do have multiple choices there as well, depending on what profiles I have loaded for my camera.)
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Why would I? I want to select my camera profile as the input profile... (And in C1 I do have multiple choices there as well, depending on what profiles I have loaded for my camera.)
    was more like a question...
    But if you would do so you would have to create your own set of presets to gain a certain look. But you would edit the files from the very beginning in the wider colour space and therefore make sure that all captured colours are present in the RAW file. The Phase profiles are edited. They certainly describe device behaviour to some extend but if you look at the gamuts you'll see that they are actually not really "big". I've once created a profile with a camera profiling software and that profile was HUGE. But rather unusable under different lighting conditions... that is one part of the "art" of making camera profiles: to edit them in a way so that they reproduce good colour even under different lighting coniditions.
    Anyway... as long as I don't edit my files in a way that exceeds the camera profiles gamut I see no reason to store them in any other colour space. I convert my files in Photoshop to whatever is needed whenever it is needed. Mostly I directly convert to the printer profiles without prior conversion to an intermediate colour space.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Thomas,

    We agree on most all of this -- my earlier edit of being an idiot re confusing the 2.2 standard with 2.0 aside .

    My point is that most everybody calibrates to 2.2 regardless of editing space or system nowadays, so setting to that standard makes some sense, even if the working space you are in has a 1.8 gamma -- at the end of the day, the errors generated are going to remain pretty small and can be mitigated by editing technique...
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    :-) so...just do it... set something and forget it :-))
    Agreed. And unless you have a specific reason to do otherwise, my recommendation is to use 2.2
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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    We agree on most all of this -- my earlier edit of being an idiot re confusing the 2.2 standard with 2.0 aside .
    oh, okay!!! now that explains it.
    I agree - Gamma 2.2 is the most common standard.
    Me personally I calibrate to Gamma 1.8 as this is the TRC of the camera profiles. So I can see the maximum of gradations my display is able to produce.

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    Re: C1 Pro -- Could not generate preview?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Cam,

    This is precisely why many pros are now demanding their work bodies write to two cards simultaneously. Anyway, shooting RAW + jpeg is a good idea for the same reason, and I now do just that with every camera I own that allows it. Especially now that the M8 can take large cards, it is not a space eater like it was when we could only use 2G cards...
    That's a fact Jack

    I will not photograph a wedding without shooting all the "must have, no time for a second shot" ... with a dual card camera. When I shot Canon it was a 1DMKIII & 1DsMKIII ... now with Nikon it's the D3/D3X combo. Don't like the weight, but having seen an entire wedding card go south with nothing retrievable (not mine thank God!) ...

    I love the new Sony A900, but until they make one that shoots to two cards simultaneously it can never be my main wedding camera.

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