tashley
Subscriber Member
...one of the many ways in which you are more sensible than us!
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Where is the X1D ????
- Thread starter etto72
- Start date
"Expected availability" has now changed to: "Not available" for the silver version. Only the 4116 (black) edition says February. B&H seems to be very fickle.
KeithL
Well-known member
Pro Centre is offering "NEW Hasselblad X1D camera, 45mm and 90mm lenses available to 'try before you buy'"
but I've no idea about the details.
Perhaps worth a phone call?
Keith, what are the "delivery" specifications on the X1D that you are concerned about for your style of shooting?
I would guess something quite basic, like using a camera.
KeithL
Well-known member
The problem is my subjects are far more diverse than they were a few years ago.
Concerns include the availability of a cabled release and DOF info, auto ISO setups, AF points etc. Also, not a specification, but I'd have to be sure of higher ISO performance.
Really, as with any new camera, I'd have to be sure the specifications meet my needs from day one. The problem with the X1D is none of us are sure what we would be getting which is why I asked if the released camera would come with an updated and detailed specs list/user manual.
It's easy to be seduced by promises of road maps, FW updates and plans of future developments but I have to admit I now take such matters with a large pinch of salt. Any camera would have to meet my needs as of now.
Gentlemen.
The delays in shipping the X1D have indeed been regrettable. They will get there in the end. At that point test one out and if you like it, buy it.
The previous shipping dates given were not deliberately false to try and steal Fuji's moment of glory but were simply the dates they thought they could achieve. We are not dealing with a huge company with unlimited resources here, so when they have to completely change the production method or are not happy with the firmware, those things cannot not be fixed overnight.
As for a press release, what are they supposed to say that they already haven't. Perry has said demand caught them by surprise and that he wants the cameras to be perfect before shipping.
The X1D is an exciting product just as the Tesla3 is, 373 000 people have pre-ordered the car; what are the odds that Tesla miss projected ship dates?
Oh and the new Alfa Romeo is delayed by a year..
Oh and the New Mercedes C class diesel is delayed by a year too..
It's frustrating yes but they will get there.
The delays in shipping the X1D have indeed been regrettable. They will get there in the end. At that point test one out and if you like it, buy it.
The previous shipping dates given were not deliberately false to try and steal Fuji's moment of glory but were simply the dates they thought they could achieve. We are not dealing with a huge company with unlimited resources here, so when they have to completely change the production method or are not happy with the firmware, those things cannot not be fixed overnight.
As for a press release, what are they supposed to say that they already haven't. Perry has said demand caught them by surprise and that he wants the cameras to be perfect before shipping.
The X1D is an exciting product just as the Tesla3 is, 373 000 people have pre-ordered the car; what are the odds that Tesla miss projected ship dates?
Oh and the new Alfa Romeo is delayed by a year..
Oh and the New Mercedes C class diesel is delayed by a year too..
It's frustrating yes but they will get there.
Wrote this morning to Hasselblad via Facebook
Here their reply:
"We have started to fullfil orders globally, but unfortunatley we can't say exactly when your camera will be delivered to you. We truly apologise for the inconvenience this have caused you.
Kind regards, The Hasselblad Team"
Here their reply:
"We have started to fullfil orders globally, but unfortunatley we can't say exactly when your camera will be delivered to you. We truly apologise for the inconvenience this have caused you.
Kind regards, The Hasselblad Team"
It still sounds a bit like a lot of this could have been avoided by better communication. If the camera can't be produced and is not ready either, it sounds to me like a marketing or management team that is very eager to get a camera on the market but forgot to ask R+D if they have it done yet.
Whether Photokina is a contributing factor in all this is unclear, but it did get awfully quiet before Photokina already and attention shifted a little to the Fuji at Photokina.
Still, I don't think anybody is pissed off enough to not buy the camera anymore, although they had quite a bit of time to cool down and think about it some more. I have heard of a few pre-orders being cancelled and hope Hasselblad hasn't overestimated sales now based on the amount of pre-orders. I can imagine people being a little more skeptical and perhaps also maybe waiting for the Fuji a bit more easily. I hope they don't get stuck with cameras in the end.
BTW pointing at other manufacturers that do a poor job too at communication or delivering on time doesn't make it any better.
Whether Photokina is a contributing factor in all this is unclear, but it did get awfully quiet before Photokina already and attention shifted a little to the Fuji at Photokina.
Still, I don't think anybody is pissed off enough to not buy the camera anymore, although they had quite a bit of time to cool down and think about it some more. I have heard of a few pre-orders being cancelled and hope Hasselblad hasn't overestimated sales now based on the amount of pre-orders. I can imagine people being a little more skeptical and perhaps also maybe waiting for the Fuji a bit more easily. I hope they don't get stuck with cameras in the end.
BTW pointing at other manufacturers that do a poor job too at communication or delivering on time doesn't make it any better.
Erik Lundqvist
Member
Patience young grasshoppers. When you are ready, the X1D will appear.
No I agree, I just wanted to point out that delays in complicated pieces of technology are not uncommon...
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Nick thanks my concern as always is I've been down this road with Leica and not going to get into it but I dealt with a lot of promises, service issues and firmware issues not to mention delays in lenses , parts and such. As I get older and yes I'm there already. Lol my tolerence level keeps getting shorter. My job or my role as my own self proclaimed industry wide watchdog or better said a big advocate of this industry is not to see handling of delays which are normal granted but to keep that communication open between us end users as a lot of us have our necks on the line and keep the OEMs more involved with more timely updates and warnings on launch products. I rather have shorter term bad news often than none at all if you know what I mean. This is a exciting product my comments have nothing to do with the product itself as I'm interested too but we see this often in the industry and it's not handled so well sometimes. This would not stop me from buying this product far from it, money will more than anything else. I'm knitting a new ski mask just in case. Lol
Yes, guessing the time needed for development is hard to do, especially for a small manufacturer. It should be a lot easier for Fuji, as they have more resources and probably a more streamlined process with the amount of cameras they develop. Hasselblad can't compete with that, but that should make communication with clients and dealers an even bigger priority. Make it personal, and why not tell exactly what's going on? It's the modern way to make people feel involved. Show what you're doing, people like that.
There was a time a number years ago when many of the major manufactueres of camera equipment would pre announce new cameras and lenses and they wouldn't be ready for market for months on end. Many voiced their displeasure at this practice to the extent that some of these same manufactueres responded by releasing said products not long after announcing them. Many were very appreciative of this effort.
Recently though a few manufacturers have either reverted to a big delay between announcing and release or simply never adhered to this policy. Some were smaller companies as pointed out with limited resources, some bigger. My point is, if possible, a product should be far along in development and extensive testing and close to being ready for release before announcing it to the general public or purposely leak rumors or conversely at the very least be up front with detailed communication to their loyal customer base as to the reason for the unforeseen delay, not with generalities but something that builds trust. Most regardless of length of delay would think highly of and appreciate the forthrightness of this approach.
Dave (D&A)
Recently though a few manufacturers have either reverted to a big delay between announcing and release or simply never adhered to this policy. Some were smaller companies as pointed out with limited resources, some bigger. My point is, if possible, a product should be far along in development and extensive testing and close to being ready for release before announcing it to the general public or purposely leak rumors or conversely at the very least be up front with detailed communication to their loyal customer base as to the reason for the unforeseen delay, not with generalities but something that builds trust. Most regardless of length of delay would think highly of and appreciate the forthrightness of this approach.
Dave (D&A)
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I suggest you all tune into an interview with Perry and Kevin Raber over at Luminous Landscape that should appear on Monday.
And cameras are being delivered to end users in December.
Erik Lundqvist
Member
Since I have 5 cents in my pocket ... here you go:
Personally I have no desire at the moment to order neither this nor any of the alternatives. I happen lately to just buy/order things that are already on the market except for some kickstarter stuff where "pre-ordering" is transparently part of the funding and it makes me feel a little proud to be part of the solution. But I absolutely understand the desire to want to have things very early and to stand in the line in the front of an Apple Store
So having read many good arguments in this discussions' thread, my mind is kind of sticking to one point of Guy: the (too) early pre-ordering is part of getting the funding for this project (especially if you foresee that facilities might not match for the new production line) and helps a Company which is small in its industry to go "all in" (just guessing here). Rationally I understand that behavior but emotionally I would feel "used" if that would have happened to me.
I really have big positive feelings feelings for those - small in market share - "traditional" brands like hasselblad or Leica (just to name two) and my customer experience has been quite positive with them. But as time and business changes maybe it is time to rethink some of their business behaviors. (They might not have funds like apple to just risk on some new products and loose on a portion of them.)
What about making me (or us) to take part in the product journey in a more open way == more like kickstarters do? You get my x thousand € (or the promise of these for the day of delivery) and you make me part of the development and production journey: Information, Communication and User Experience Design.
Just mind playing around: how would you feel about such a brand, such a product, during the process and when you finally have it in your hands?
Needed to write this and curious about your thoughts
Helge
Personally I have no desire at the moment to order neither this nor any of the alternatives. I happen lately to just buy/order things that are already on the market except for some kickstarter stuff where "pre-ordering" is transparently part of the funding and it makes me feel a little proud to be part of the solution. But I absolutely understand the desire to want to have things very early and to stand in the line in the front of an Apple Store
So having read many good arguments in this discussions' thread, my mind is kind of sticking to one point of Guy: the (too) early pre-ordering is part of getting the funding for this project (especially if you foresee that facilities might not match for the new production line) and helps a Company which is small in its industry to go "all in" (just guessing here). Rationally I understand that behavior but emotionally I would feel "used" if that would have happened to me.
I really have big positive feelings feelings for those - small in market share - "traditional" brands like hasselblad or Leica (just to name two) and my customer experience has been quite positive with them. But as time and business changes maybe it is time to rethink some of their business behaviors. (They might not have funds like apple to just risk on some new products and loose on a portion of them.)
What about making me (or us) to take part in the product journey in a more open way == more like kickstarters do? You get my x thousand € (or the promise of these for the day of delivery) and you make me part of the development and production journey: Information, Communication and User Experience Design.
Just mind playing around: how would you feel about such a brand, such a product, during the process and when you finally have it in your hands?
Needed to write this and curious about your thoughts
Helge
ErikKaffehr
Well-known member
Godfrey
Well-known member
Like you, I normally buy already-shipping products. Only when I feel there's something truly special, or I just know that what's coming up is going to fulfill a need and I want it as soon as possible, do I place an order before an item is actually released. (Actually, I'd do that for a set of AirPods, but Apple won't allow me to place an order for them until they ship...)
I'm involved in a Kickstarter camera project at present, the Light 16. For participating with my hundred dollar downpayment, I get an approximately quarterly update on their current status and consequent notices of their slip dates. It looks like the camera they've promised will ship a full two years plus past the original estimated release date. The multi-camera computational photography notion is very interesting to me, however, and I think might have some legs for acquiring very high resolution, very high quality images in a small form factor camera. Eh? We'll see where it goes.
I somehow suspect a quarterly update wouldn't satisfy the anxiety of the pre-order-placers on this thread. We're only just about one quarter past the first estimated release date... :toocool: It's an impatient lot around here.
I have to say: I was very taken with the X1D the moment I handled it back in June at a demo day. If I juggle things around sufficiently, I could well just drop other plans and buy one as soon as they become available. I must not be as demanding as others; I found the controls very nicely done, the viewfinder quite satisfactory, and the ergonomics excellent. Center focus point only? well, I only rarely move the focus point off-center anyway. Stratospheric ISO? Much as I like the ability to shoot black cows on a dark night in the barn, I can't say that I do it all that often and I can reach for another camera to do that. Only a couple of lenses available? Yeah, sure, but they happen to be the two focal lengths I use most anyway. I am certain that Hasselblad's treatment of the 50Mpixel sensor will be excellent, that their lenses will be excellent, etc. The only niggle is whether a wired remote will become available, but honestly the WiFi remote release is what I use most of the time anyway now with other WiFi equipped cameras.
But such it is. My needs are modest, my desires constrained. I will live and continue my photography whether I have one or not. I have a 6x6 pinhole camera and some special Washi orthochromatic film that I've got to get out and do some shooting with... When the X1D arrives, it arrives.
G