Apple Pro Display verse Eizo CG319x

[glenerrolrd]

Its time to upgrade my digital darkroom . Per my plan I am close to achieving the 200K photographs in my archive plus another 20K Kodachrome slides . I expected at some point I would transition to more post processing ,printing, book making and display . Sitting behind the screen will become a much bigger part of my photography .

WHICH SCREEN TO GET

Cost isn't a factor as I expect this purchase to get heavy use for at least five years .

I expect to be using an Apple Studio to drive my processing with a MBP 16 as my mobile choice .


I know many of the GETDPI participants like the 27 in EIZO or find the iMac 5K a compelling value proposition .

EXPECT TO PRINT A LOT MORE

I once had my digital darkroom down to perfection ..making my own profiles and getting great consistency in color printing . There are much better tools available now and I will re invent all this as time permits . I will never print really big expecting that 17x22 will be my maximum print size .

ENJOYING THE PROCESS IS IMPORTANT

I know many really enjoy the Apple 6k display and say how wonderful it is to see their images ..large and with such high resolution . The EIZO has a reputation as being more color accurate and having better B&W tone separation .

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I realize this is surely a decision that you really can not get wrong ..both being superb products . It is also clearly in the eye of the beholder which is best . Still I am sure some of the group has looked into this and I would enjoy hearing different perspectives .

 

[routlaw]

I don't have an answer for you, but have also been researching new monitors lately too. My NEC PA271W is at least 10 years old and while still working probably should be replaced. Regarding your two choices, in many ways those two are apples and oranges comparison partly because of the size, 27 vs 31 inch, however Apple Studio Display is 5k which will work better if you are on a Mac computer. Eizo has their own proprietary software/hardware calibration which is a good thing, while the ASD has not calibration. I have heard from people it can be calibrated via 3rd party software and hardware but its a bit tricky, while others will state new monitors like this do not ever need to be calibrated since they are done at the factory with very expensive devices and have self monitoring circuits to constantly bring them back to their correct state. This might work fine if you can utilize the built in reference modes, if not its a bit of a crap shoot.

If you are trying to match prints to monitors my experience is HDR monitors are not the best option based upon comparing my iPad Pro (XDR screen on steroids) to my NEC monitor which still provides an excellent monitor to printer emulation. Viewing the same images on the iPad Pro is fun, the images look cool but no way will they print like what you're seeing on an XDR display, plus you would have to be working on a D65 environment too. I am also intrigued with the Apple Studio Display but FWIW the vast majority of reviews on this thing have been far less than stellar with some people giving a complete thumbs down depending on your needs and expectations. For the same or less price you could buy a much better display for a printing workflow. At 27 inches I suggest considering the Eizo CS2731, but if you really want a 31-32 inch display and work with Mac's 4k might not be the best option. Macs do not scale the way windows does and this is the reason why they have done 5k displays for many years. Windows from what I understand can deal with 4k scaling much better.

Hope this helps.

 

[stngoldberg]

I use the Enzo 27 inch and have brightness set 80 when I calibrate.
I use the paper profiles from colorbyte software. Most of the time my prints match my monitor
Stanley

 

[MGrayson]

I use the Enzo 27 inch and have brightness set 80 when I calibrate.
I use the paper profiles from colorbyte software. Most of the time my prints match my monitor
Stanley

The typo above reminds me of possibly the best car tire ad of all time (low bar, I know). Red sports car is zooming along a distant winding road. As the camera zooms in, the voiceover says "Why does every Ferrari Testarossa come with Goodyear Eagle Tires?" Car has pulled to a stop, camera now quite close. Old guy wearing sunglasses and a big smile gets out of the car. Voice continues "Because that's the way Mr. Ferrari wants it."

 

[glenerrolrd]

Just to clarify . I am considering the two top monitors . The Eizo CG319X is a 31 in ....4K monitor that comes with build in hardware based calibration . It is well known for having superb color management capabilities . A few years ago it would have been considered in a league of its own . However apple has introduced the PRO Display also 31in and now 6K . Both these monitors appear to be well ahead of the 27inch monitors or anything on an iMac .

They are both beyond my requirements ..I will print up to about 17x22 and have no real requirements to color match . I know either alternative will work out completely . However before I commit to a piece of equipment that would not be easy to switch out ...I wanted to see if others have gone thru this evaluation . Thanks for the relies ..it helped .

I am leaning toward the Apple Pro Display for the simple reason that I know it will work with current an future apple versions of OS .

 

[KC_2020]

....I am leaning toward the Apple Pro Display for the simple reason that I know it will work with current an future apple versions of OS .

Eizo has maintained compatibility with every OS Apple has made and updated their monitors to be compatible for Apple's new M processors. They know their market and they're not about to abandon Mac support.

Both displays are in a league of their own. The Eizo is an industry standard. The Apple is not because professionals needing critical color accuracy are using Eizo or NEC's with Spectraview that they can calibrate.

I did see an Apple XDR display on an execs desk at Skywalker ranch. Hey also wore a very nice suit that cost more than the display. Nobody in production used one. I did see a couple of Asus ProArt they were trying out but anyone doing critical color was using Eizo or SONY video monitors calibrated for REC 709. Lot's of production was being done on LG Ultrafine displays but they weren't used for color grading.

 

[glenerrolrd]

This is constant with any information I have been able to find . Production environments require a consistency often across multiple work staton /dispalys . Eizo /Nec seem to be favored for their better(easier to use and super accurate ) hardware calibration . Apple Pro Displays are typically more enjoyed for their 6K viewing pleasure,their "Bling" factor (industrial design ) and their ease of use in a OS environment . .

Eizo will certainly adjust to any Mac environment but they did recently have a "BLIP" where the CG391x was not recommended for Mac M1 machines. It was fixed (as I understand it ) .

Time is my currency ($$$) so it is doubtful that I will spend much of it perfecting color management ...beyond screen to print consistency . Viewing will be my primary activity . I appreciate the industrial design of the Apple gear and the support Apple provides to have it all work together . I don t have a relationship with a professional Eizo dealer (as I am a single workstation amateur user ) . This seems to make me an Apple customer .

 

[MGrayson]

There is nothing wrong with getting what you want.

 

[KC_2020]

Eizo will certainly adjust to any Mac environment but they did recently have a "BLIP" where the CG391x was not recommended for Mac M1 machines. It was fixed (as I understand it )

Eizo being a small company simply took a few weeks to update and be compatible with the M1. Apple has changed their processor twice since the Mac was introduced in 1984. Now that it's proprietary I doubt we'll ever witness compatibility issues again as it will evolve, not change radically. The M1 Pro and Ultra demonstrate that.

There is nothing wrong with getting what you want.

I would agree. You absolutely should.

 

[TechTalk]

I've recently discussed and compared the same two monitors elsewhere and will be happy to share what I've learned. Let me start with some general observations and then I'll make some specific posts about each.

First, these two monitors do have some overlap in their target market, but are also very different in a number of ways and the best choice will depend on your priorities. If maximum contrast range for viewing HDR content is a high priority, then I think that the Apple Pro Display XDR would be your preference. If maximum image uniformity and user control over how content is displayed on an SDR monitor is a high priority, then I think that the Eizo CG319X would be your preference.

The other general observation that I would make is that marketing speak needs to be separated from reality. The SDR display market is relatively mature and stable and you will generally find fewer wild hyperbolic performance claims being made. The HDR market is comparatively recent with new and emerging technologies competing and often accompanied by enthusiastic performance claims that ignore inherent weaknesses.

As an example, the Apple Pro Display XDR uses the common method of full-array local dimming zones to achieve its HDR contrast range. When they announced the display, they compared it to a Sony BVM-HX310 HDR reference monitor which uses very uncommon dual-layer LCD technology found in few monitors. Without getting into the technology, dual-layer LCD reference monitors, like the Sony BVM-HX310 or Eizo Prominence CG3146, produce their deep black levels and HDR contrast range with individual pixel level control and cost $30,000 or more.

For a test, visual review, and comparison of the Apple Pro Display XDR showing both its strengths and weaknesses; you may find the video below of interest...

https://www.youtube.com/Apple Pro Display XDR Review

 

[TechTalk]

While both the Apple Pro Display XDR and Eizo CG models offer user presets and customization of display parameters, your options are more limited with Apple and custom configuration can be considerably less user friendly. Apple calls their presets "Reference Modes" and user configurations "Custom Reference Modes". Eizo calls presets "Color Modes" and each of them can be customized by changing an extensive list of target settings.

The links above detail the user customization options with the Apple Pro Display XDR. The Eizo options are so extensive that I would suggest downloading the user manuals for both the monitor and ColorNavigator 7 if you're interested in the full range of options available.

The are too many differences to address in a forum post. I'll mention a few of the commonly found professional graphics monitor options which Apple is missing as examples of some of the differences.

Apple does not offer color gamut settings for native gamut or Adobe RGB. There is no black level or contrast control. White point selection is limited to D50, D65, or DCI with no direct color temperature input or slider control. If you want a custom white point to match paper white in soft proofing, then you need to enter numerical x/y chromaticity coordinate values to change color temperature. Manual fine tuning of color for soft proofing is also not an option. In short, it's not very user friendly for customizing soft proofing or print applications.

As I mentioned, the Eizo options are extensive. For more information, the Eizo distributor for the Asia-Pacific Region has some informative guides and video tutorials. For the most basic calibration and soft proof setup, this video tutorial is instructive. For more advanced soft proofing, this video on advanced soft proofing is under six minutes and worth a look.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Tech Talk

Thank you so much for the information and insights . Its apparent to me that the more serious you are about color management and printing .....the more you should go with the Eizo . Superior fine tuning of your color management process really favors the Eizo . I think the Apple Pro with 6K and HDR advantages might be better for viewing my work .

As I stated earlier I am leaning away from investing a lot of time to fine tune my color management process . I will not be testing a lot of papers for example ...I will find one or maybe two and try to standardize around the desired output . If I need to go much beyond the typical approach to monitor calibration with an EyeOne sensitometer ...I will not do it . In fact probably nobody will care if my color management is precise except me . I have no production environment or customers . I do have an excellent eye for color ...I get 100% on those tests and have been color printing since there was color printing . I will try top get the process optimized once and then try to keep it there ..not likely to be changing much in the future .

The trade off seems as you stated ...if I want the best for now and the future of color managed post process..I will not likely outgrow the Eizo . If I want the pleasure of using a HDR 6K solution the Apple might be more satisfying .

Very tough decision .

 

[TechTalk]

Thank you so much for the information and insights . Its apparent to me that the more serious you are about color management and printing .....the more you should go with the Eizo . Superior fine tuning of your color management process really favors the Eizo . I think the Apple Pro with 6K and HDR advantages might be better for viewing my work .

I'm happy to share what I've learned. With regard to viewing your images, the Apple Pro Display XDR has advantages in resolution, maximum brightness, and larger contrast range. The Eizo has advantages with the ability to display a wider range of colors due to its larger color gamut and has better uniformity across the screen.

 

[TechTalk]

As I stated earlier I am leaning away from investing a lot of time to fine tune my color management process . I will not be testing a lot of papers for example ...I will find one or maybe two and try to standardize around the desired output . If I need to go much beyond the typical approach to monitor calibration with an EyeOne sensitometer ...I will not do it . In fact probably nobody will care if my color management is precise except me . I have no production environment or customers . I do have an excellent eye for color ...I get 100% on those tests and have been color printing since there was color printing . I will try top get the process optimized once and then try to keep it there ..not likely to be changing much in the future .

I understand what you're saying with regard to calibration. It is normally a requirement in collaborative production environments and up to the individual in a single-user production process.

With regard to calibration capabilities and user friendliness, there is really a stark night and day difference in the two monitors that you're considering. The Eizo has a built-in colorimeter which can be programmed to automatically calibrate the display at any interval and time of day you would like. You can also use a very wide range of other external devices. Their ColorNavigator software can also automatically correlate the built-in colorimeter to your EyeOne to insure consistency.

The calibration option from Apple is frankly puzzling. Apple released Pro Display XDR Calibrator version 1.0.0 software in November 2020 and it remains unchanged. The software requires you to use one of four supported spectroradiometer models which start in price at around $15,000. Clearly, it is not designed to be user friendly for calibration.

 

[TechTalk]

I am leaning toward the Apple Pro Display for the simple reason that I know it will work with current an future apple versions of OS .

Eizo will certainly adjust to any Mac environment but they did recently have a "BLIP" where the CG391x was not recommended for Mac M1 machines. It was fixed (as I understand it )

Eizo being a small company simply took a few weeks to update and be compatible with the M1.

Just to clarify any compatibility issues, the only Eizo specific compatibility issues which have required updating were updates to their ColorNavigator software to keep pace with macOS changes. ColorNavigator software being integral to a color managed workflow with their ColorEdge monitor line, Eizo posted a software incompatibility notice on the monitor product page. The ColorNavigator software was quickly updated as noted.

There have been hardware issues related to the M1 processor, but these are primarily related to color defects caused by Apple's current implementation of HDMI output on M1 models and do not affect monitors connected thru DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, or USB-C connections. Eizo posted a detailed and updated report on these issues which affect all brands and models of monitors connected to a M1 Mac thru HDMI cables or HDMI to DisplayPort / USB-C conversion cables.

 

[TechTalk]

Both these monitors appear to be well ahead of the 27inch monitors or anything on an iMac .

Eizo has announced a new 27-inch CGX model with higher pixel density (164 ppi) than the CG319X (149 ppi). The new CG2700X won't start shipping until later this year, but might be worthy of consideration if you're not looking exclusively at the larger monitors. It also has single cable USB-C display connection capability like the Apple Pro Display XDR.

I suspect that when the Eizo CG319X is replaced it will also feature a USB-C display connection. A very thorough review of the CG319X is available from German language website PRAD.de. Below is a link to a Google Translate German to English version of the review...

https://www-prad-de.translate.goog/test-eizo-cg319x-top-monitor-fuer-dci-4k-content

 

[TechTalk]

I don t have a relationship with a professional Eizo dealer (as I am a single workstation amateur user ) . This seems to make me an Apple customer .

Eizo lists Capture Integration as an authorized reseller. I'm sure that they would be happy to work with you.

 

[glenerrolrd]

After reading the Eizo materials and watching the YouTube videos on the apple pro display ...I think the new 27 cg2700X would be the best fit . I would rather have the 31 inch size but I am not sure it matters . I work on a 27 iMac 5K and its plenty large enough for my photography . I like the automatic hardware calibration process and the connectivity thru APS-C . I can wait for the display to become available and maybe a 31 will be announced in the mean time .

 

[glenerrolrd]

I may take a different approach for viewing my images in HDR on wall mounted panel 55 inch .

 

[glenerrolrd]

After some great advice from this forum ..I now have a strategy of sort to proceed . My target post processing environment will be the Apple Mac Studio M1 ,the Eizo CG2700X and probably a Sony OLED Wall Tv ..(55 0r 65 Inch ) . This could change if I decide to go for a dual monitor approach .
Stuff I learned , the EIZO will be better as a long term solution because of its superior color management and profiling features . The new model CG2700X has excellent connectivity thru the USB-C port and is worth waiting for . EIZO told me the release will be in OCT and I will preorder thru B&H (saves the $300 sales tax ). I still like the Mac Pro Display and will look again when they release the new model probably in 6-9 months . I would much rather have the 31 in size but no information from EIZO ..so that means probably more than a year .

Amazing that the Apple Mac Studio just became available at B&H fully loaded except has 4TB drive . I will wait as the new display will probably not arrive for 6 months. Too bad as I need the display more than the new processor . I do not like that Apple will be upgrading this to an M2 just about the time I will need to buy one .

I can also wait on the Sony OLED Wall Tv as I have several SONY OLED TV s here at home and can just airplay to an 82 " in another room .

Hopefully I can put this all in place by year end .