Is tilt/swing available on Universalis with Canon lenses on a GFX 100S for portraits?

[wallpaperviking]

Anybody have any idea if you can attach a Canon lens to the Universalis and GFX 100S combo and use tilt/swing for creative portraits? I realise that you are using lenses that do not necessarily have a large enough image circle for this but there are many examples where such lenses do cover and a bit beyond.. I am not talking about TS-E lenses but full frame Canon (or other brands).

I know it would be tight as well, from looking at my Kipon Canon to GFX dumb adapter. Possible? If it is, would that extend to using the Arca Swiss Rotafoot?

Thanks!

 

[anyone]

The problem would be the image circle. It’s true that some Canon lenses (barely) cover the GFX image circle, but you are amplifying the lack of image circle if you want to use lens movements.

 

[wallpaperviking]

The problem would be the image circle. It’s true that some Canon lenses (barely) cover the GFX image circle, but you are amplifying the lack of image circle if you want to use lens movements.

Thanks for the reply... Am not looking to use rise/fall and shift, just swing and tilt. I though these movements were more forgiving than the others? Does a Canon lens work with the Rotafoot and the GFX 100S? Thanks!

 

[KC_2020]

Rotafoot adapters

 

[rdeloe]

Thanks for the reply... Am not looking to use rise/fall and shift, just swing and tilt. I though these movements were more forgiving than the others? Does a Canon lens work with the Rotafoot and the GFX 100S? Thanks!

If the axis of tilt or swing passes through the lens's rear nodal point, then you'll stay within the unshifted image circle, unless you're making a very large swing or tilt. Empirically, I've noticed that the lenses that do this (tilt/swing without requiring shift or rise/fall to correct composition) have a focal length that is closest to their flange focal length. For example, the Pentax 645 75mm f/2.8 is nice for tilt/swing because almost no recomposition is needed... and the flange focal length of Pentax 645 is 70.87mm.

Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do this with a really sub-optimal choice (too small image circle, expensive to control the aperture with an electronic adapter board, strong possibility that it just won't work)?

 

[wallpaperviking]

If the axis of tilt or swing passes through the lens's rear nodal point, then you'll stay within the unshifted image circle, unless you're making a very large swing or tilt. Empirically, I've noticed that the lenses that do this (tilt/swing without requiring shift or rise/fall to correct composition) have a focal length that is closest to their flange focal length. For example, the Pentax 645 75mm f/2.8 is nice for tilt/swing because almost no recomposition is needed... and the flange focal length of Pentax 645 is 70.87mm.

Do you have a specific reason for wanting to do this with a really sub-optimal choice (too small image circle, expensive to control the aperture with an electronic adapter board, strong possibility that it just won't work)?

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated! The real reason is fast lenses and to get a very shallow depth of field in a normal to slightly wide FOV. Cannot get it with medium format glass..

 

[rdeloe]

Got you. But I'm not sure you'll be able to combine what you want (fast lenses) with camera movements given the small image circle of the EF lenses. It might be a one thing or the other situation.

 

[wallpaperviking]

Got you. But I'm not sure you'll be able to combine what you want (fast lenses) with camera movements given the small image circle of the EF lenses. It might be a one thing or the other situation.

Thanks Rob, always appreciate your insights!
You do not use any Canon lenses on your Universalis by any chance?

 

[rdeloe]

Thanks Rob, always appreciate your insights!
You do not use any Canon lenses on your Universalis by any chance?

Nope. People do use the t/s lenses and they sell a very expensive adapter board to control them.

 

[wallpaperviking]

Just did a very basic setup with a Samyang 85mm 1.4 mounted on my GFX. By mounted, I mean a dark cloth hanging over the two, with a space in between. There is some unknown combo of swing and tilt of the Samyang in there, as I had it on a levelling head and it is a little hard to control

Ideally would be after a 50mm on the GFX and generally these have even less room but this little test gives me hope that it is achievable.

Just need a setup that has a bit more fine tuning to it... Outside of a full tech camera setup, any thoughts? Was thinking a Macro rail, with the lens somehow attached to a geared tripod head and a DIY bellows in between...

Thanks!

 

[wallpaperviking]

Does anybody have any thoughts on how else I can go about this? Outside of paying a for a A/S Universalis...

I have tried attaching the lens to a levelling head, with a make shift bellows in between the rear of the lens and the GFX 100S body but this was too hard to control accurately.

I have also tried a geared tripod head, where the lens sits on top and there is a bellows in between the rear of the lens and the GFX 100S body. This was accurate but the movements were not acute enough (not sure if that is the right term).

As you can see from the example above, there are 35mm lenses that cover the GFX sensor and enable tilt/swing. Particularly at portrait distances. I have a couple of old 4x5 cameras, a Cambo SC and a Toyo G and am wondering if they could somehow work?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[rdeloe]

I would not hold out any hope of your old 4x5 bodies working. To get good results, you need just about perfect alignment of the lens plane and the sensor plane. No 4x5 I've owned allows what you need.

Makeshift solutions that allow movement are also highly unlikely to be satisfactory. I'm somewhat astonished that my MAB Camera worked as well as it did, but I kept the movements simple and it allowed for adjustment.

Why not just use a tilt-shift adapter like the Kipon and a suitable lens?

 

[mristuccia]

I don't experience in this subject, but I'm just following this thread and the implications highlighted with interest. Just a stupid idea: what about following your original plan and accepting a bit of crop that may be needed due to the lack of image circle? Maybe this could be a good compromise, especially with a 100mpx back.

 

[Ed Hurst]

I do think the Kipon adaptor idea is a good one…

 

[wallpaperviking]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated!

I am looking to use fast 35mm full frame lenses in the range of 50mm - 58mm ideally. There is no such fast 645 lens that I am aware of, only Canon, Nikon etc etc. There is the Mamiya 645 80mm 1.9 but that is a little long for what I am after.

There is also no Kipon adapter that I am aware of that would help with this. The Arca Swiss Universalis should do it but that is obviously a much bigger investment.

Cropping a 100mpx image is no problem but that does not really help in this scenario.

Thanks!

 

[guphotography]

If I understand correctly, you want to utilise the swing/tilt to achieve a certain look for portraits.

The fast lenses for smaller format cameras are designed in such way to mimic the look of medium/large format cameras at normal aperture, so using fast lens while combing tilt/swing might be an overkill, but all depending on your desired final result.

If you can show us what you aim to achieve, that might help someone comes up with a feasible solution.

 

[TimoK]

If I understand correctly, you want to utilise the swing/tilt to achieve a certain look for portraits.

using fast lens while combing tilt/swing might be an overkill, but all depending on your desired final result.

If you can show us what you aim to achieve, that might help someone comes up with a feasible solution.

I can guess what you want to achieve in your portraiture. I guess you want a portrait where only eyes are in focus and other parts of face out of focus.
I agree with guphotography that using very fast lens with much of tilt might be an overkill. The more you tilt the thinner is the focal plane. And it becomes more a wedge than a plane or a plate. The wedge is thinner near to the camera and becomes broader far from it. You can get what you want with 4/80mm lens and 15 degrees of tilt.

I don't see any reason why not use your 4x5 view cameras. It's not so important how many degrees of tilt you use or how precise is your focus or other settings in that kind of portrait shots.
You only need to mount your 100s to the rear of the view camera. If you already own those view cameras it's the cheapest way to try this.
In that kind of portraiture the most important is your shooting technique. My recommendation in order:
1. Put all movements to zero in the view camera
2. Focus to infinity or very far a way.
3. Screw in 8-20 degrees of tilt forward. ( That's a lot, it really makes sense! And it's the easiest way to start to put tilt forward, later you can rotate the tilting angle. )
4. Now it's the time to call your modell in and to try to set the focal plane to the right place. It means trying and error. Maybe a good idea is to focus "nearer" with the view camera. I mean to add the distance between the lens and the sensor with the view camera( not focusing nearer but setting the focal plane more horizontally). You can try to set the focus to you subject's eyes by lifting or lowering the camera.

I recommend you read http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/index.html#TIAOOF
and https://photopxl.com/technical-cameras-using-camera-movements-in-the-field/
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle
and http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/dslr-tilt-shift/

and maybe you should install Lumariver app in your smartphone

 

[TimoK]

I made a little experiment around the case.
There are two horizontal shots stitched. The camera was Sony a7rm4 with Cambo Actus mini. The stitched picture is near to 33x44mm, 100mpx. A little bigger in fact.
Lens was Schneider Apo-Digitar 4/80mm. The mask is 28cm in height, so a little bigger than a normal human face, but not much bigger.
The distance from camera to the subject was ~1 meter. Aperture wide open f/4.

I set the maximum possible swing in Actus, the bellows gave me no more movement and IC ended at the left side of picture. See vignetting.
18-20 degrees, approximately, I was out of the scale of Actus.

 

[dchew]

What about a Leica 50 summilux R, f/1.4? I've been hunting for something that shows if it has a bigger image circle, but this is all I found, and it is still discussion smaller movie sensors.
Leica R image circles

Someone on here has been experimenting with "FF" lenses on a 44x33 sensor, but I forget who it is. Mostly Leica lenses though. I can tell you my APO 180mm R lens almost covers 54x40. Alpa has adapters for this stuff. They might have some sort of database and/or knowledge about specific lenses.

Dave

 

[wallpaperviking]

Yes, the ability to keep the eyes sharp is definitely one of the reasons. Yes, I can do that with colour film and my large format camera but it is getting extremely expensive and am looking to get something similar with digital.

Below are a couple of examples from Bryan Schutmaat. Shot on 54 with a focal length of 150mm - 180mm (at a guess).

Also attached is an 810 Polaroid from Paolo Roversi.. Very different but shows the eyes in focus with what looks like a front tilt of the camera..