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A7r IV

jdphoto

Well-known member
Ahh...I miss the days when upgrades were useful and photographers needs simple. No more skills required today. Alas, the fundamentals seem lost with each new upgrade. Why upgrade to this model when the newer 100mp, self composing, completely automated 750+ focus points, will undoubtedly make you a better photographer.
 
Ahh...I miss the days when upgrades were useful and photographers needs simple. No more skills required today. Alas, the fundamentals seem lost with each new upgrade. Why upgrade to this model when the newer 100mp, self composing, completely automated 750+ focus points, will undoubtedly make you a better photographer.
What nonsense.
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
What nonsense.
You're right, I forgot to include Photoshop!

I'm curious what features cameras could possibly add that would make any difference to anyone who's serious about the fundamentals of photography?
Seriously, I'm not trying to provoke, but where is the threshold to digital camera technology for the average user? What more could you possibly need?
The only thing this new Sony does is perhaps require a newer computer. I guess it's really in the editing these days. Bad technique is easily fixed in Photoshop, LR, etc. Perhaps it's the gorgeous Dorothea Lange hardcover photo book I recently saw at a local bookstore. It impressed upon me that today's digital photography seems to have lost its way with the instant gratification and expectation of simplicity. Hard work is intrinsic to the perceived value...at least to me it is.
 
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pegelli

Well-known member
I'm curious what features cameras could possibly add that would make any difference to anyone who's serious about the fundamentals of photography?
Seriously, I'm not trying to provoke, but where is the threshold to digital camera technology for the average user? What more could you possibly need?
I think you could say that about virtually every digital camera that was launched in the past 10+ years.
 

Audii-Dudii

Active member
I think you could say that about virtually every digital camera that was launched in the past 10+ years.
And not just about cameras, either, but pretty much every consumer good ever made!

For my serious photography, I use my cameras as a poor-man's digital back, hence use pretty much zero features besides an HDMI output jack, a built-in digital magnifier that can be moved around the screen, and a crappy, not very accurate histogram. As I noted in another post a while ago, there were no even slightly compelling reasons to justify me upgrading from my A7R to an A7RII, let alone the A7RIII.

And in the case of the A7RIV, if I do decide to purchase one (its bulbous and ungainly large handgrip notwithstanding!), it will be solely because of the higher resolution and higher performance of its sensor and image-processing pipeline, not because of any new or improved features it has.

That said, I recognize that my needs, as well as my taste and preferences, are far from universal. Which is why, for example, Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors of ice cream, not just one, and potato chips are available in an amazingly wide variety of flavors these days, instead of just salted and unsalted, as was the case when I was a kid.

Personally, the only time I ever care even slightly about a feature that appeals to others is when it affects me, such as the industry's trend to adding larger and deeper grips to their camera bodies with every new generation.

Because if I don't speak my mind about this, the manufacturers will never know the reason why I chose not to buy their new camera and if they don't know that, then how can they ever consider addressing the issue in the future?

Otherwise, it's live and let live so far as I'm concerned. <shrugs>
 

Knorp

Well-known member
Frankly I'm glad the way they've changed the grip, although making it deeper wasn't necessary imo.
Sorry it doesn't work out for you, Audii-Dudii.
 

Audii-Dudii

Active member
Frankly I'm glad the way they've changed the grip, although making it deeper wasn't necessary imo.
Sorry it doesn't work out for you, Audii-Dudii.
Eh, these things happen sometimes. <sigh>

And in this case, it may well be moot, because as much as I would like to upgrade to a higher-resolution sensor, the actively cooled sensor and significantly improved firmware of a dedicated astrophotography camera (such as the QHY 367C, which uses the same sensor as the A7R) will probably have an even more beneficial effect on my nighttime photography.

If only I could find some way to try one before I buy one, but I haven't been able to find any rental units, the manufacturer isn't interested in providing me with a loaner, and even in a metropolitan area of more than five million people located in one of the better parts of the country for astrophotography, I haven't been to locate even one owner who I can ask for a demo... <pouty face>
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
And not just about cameras, either, but pretty much every consumer good ever made!

For my serious photography, I use my cameras as a poor-man's digital back, hence use pretty much zero features besides an HDMI output jack, a built-in digital magnifier that can be moved around the screen, and a crappy, not very accurate histogram. As I noted in another post a while ago, there were no even slightly compelling reasons to justify me upgrading from my A7R to an A7RII, let alone the A7RIII.

And in the case of the A7RIV, if I do decide to purchase one (its bulbous and ungainly large handgrip notwithstanding!), it will be solely because of the higher resolution and higher performance of its sensor and image-processing pipeline, not because of any new or improved features it has.

That said, I recognize that my needs, as well as my taste and preferences, are far from universal. Which is why, for example, Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors of ice cream, not just one, and potato chips are available in an amazingly wide variety of flavors these days, instead of just salted and unsalted, as was the case when I was a kid.

Personally, the only time I ever care even slightly about a feature that appeals to others is when it affects me, such as the industry's trend to adding larger and deeper grips to their camera bodies with every new generation.

Because if I don't speak my mind about this, the manufacturers will never know the reason why I chose not to buy their new camera and if they don't know that, then how can they ever consider addressing the issue in the future?

Otherwise, it's live and let live so far as I'm concerned. <shrugs>
I think the takeaway that we share, albeit for different reasons, is that when the cameras are good enough the next logical step is to offer them in a variety of form factors. My biggest fear is that Sony will become complacent and afraid to do things “their” way which was to be an industry disruptor. If they go the route of the DSLR where innovation means to add more pixels and just be competitive in the feature set they’ll become a thoroughly boring company IMO. I don’t expect them to keep the pace of the first three years of FE bodies but new models need to be a big jump up otherwise people will just skip a generation or two... or worse for them would be for users to exit the platform.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Ahh...I miss the days when upgrades were useful and photographers needs simple. No more skills required today. Alas, the fundamentals seem lost with each new upgrade. Why upgrade to this model when the newer 100mp, self composing, completely automated 750+ focus points, will undoubtedly make you a better photographer.
Thank you :clap:

I just "invested" $800 in an 11,000 click D800 with vertical grip. It offers more pixels than most photographers will ever need and it's compatible with millions of F-mount lenses that are available for reasonable prices worldwide. I'm sure... correction: I know that the A7R IV offers tons of features that my D800 doesn't. However, few if any of those features have any consequence for my photography whatsoever, and I say that as a mirrorless user through 10 years of evolution and revolution.

I can now go on a three week holiday without a charger ;)
 

Audii-Dudii

Active member
Premature? :thumbdown:
Maybe, maybe not.

I personally left medium format digital behind not long after the A7R was released for much the same issue: A lack of DoF due to the longer focal length lenses that were used with the larger sensor to achieve the same FoV as I had with my previous camera outfit.

Except in my case, the situation was further complicated by the longer exposures I had to use to compensate for stopping down the lens further to achieve the same DoF as I had available when using shorter focal length lenses and smaller sensor cameras.

There were frequent occasions when one of my long-exposure photos was ruined by a car passing through the scene several minutes in, forcing me to to start over. To make matters worse, though, the particular digital back I was using wouldn't turn off until it had completed a second, dark-frame exposure of the same length for noise-reduction purposes and then I had to let the back cool for several additional minutes before I could try again as the file would be too noisy if I didn't. At times, I struggled to take even a single photo in an hour, so many times did I have to stop and start over due to some form of interference ruining my photo. <sigh>

So I can definitely feel his pain and sympathize with the author's predicament. And at least in the respect that apparently matters most to him, the A7RIV is mathematically guaranteed to be a far better performer for his purposes than the GFX 100 solely because of its smaller-size sensor and the shorter focal length lenses he can use with it.

This is why I don't need to actually try any flavor of Fuji GFX camera to know with a high degree of confidence that they won't perform well for the type of photography I prefer to do, regardless of how well they perform for hundreds and thousands of other photographers doing the type of photography they prefer to do.

Horses for courses and all that...
 

pegelli

Well-known member
This ought to satisfy and "save" some potential medium format digital buyers
from spending an order of magnitude more to chase the golden calf

Here's a good read https://www.aaronreedphotography.co...-the-gfx100-and-bought-the-sony-ar74-instead/
That might be true in very few cases, if people want MF they'll get an MF camera and they are probably smart enough to understand a high MP FF camera isn't the same. There's more to that than just pixels and resolution.

I think a much more significant effect is the enormous price drop I am now seeing for the ii and iii models. For instance I now see the A7ii in the Netherlands for 849 € and the A7Rii for 1299 €. These cameras already offer more gizmo's and options than most people need, as long as you don't believe all the bloggers trying to convince you that only good photo's can be made when you have the latest/greatest new model.

For sure the A7Riv is a very nice camera but for me it does not really offer a 1900 € advantage over the A7Rii, and even for me the A7Rii is currently overkill vs. my needs.
 

Bugleone

Well-known member
I do have a sony a6000 which takes good photos, but is no where near the 'photo tool' that my wifes entry level nikon dslr is.....you can bang in nails with an adjustable wrench and also loosen nuts but a well designed hammer and spanner will do the jobs much better....... I have not been able to get enthusiastic for the sony A7 models because I only have normal shaped fingers and I like camera batteries to retain some charge...plus; Sony ALWAYS wriggles out of it's warranty obligations with one of their stock replies such as; "this item has been superceded now and it will not be cost effective to repair so just buy a new one"
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
That might be true in very few cases, if people want MF they'll get an MF camera and they are probably smart enough to understand a high MP FF camera isn't the same. There's more to that than just pixels and resolution.

I think a much more significant effect is the enormous price drop I am now seeing for the ii and iii models. For instance I now see the A7ii in the Netherlands for 849 € and the A7Rii for 1299 €. These cameras already offer more gizmo's and options than most people need, as long as you don't believe all the bloggers trying to convince you that only good photo's can be made when you have the latest/greatest new model.

For sure the A7Riv is a very nice camera but for me it does not really offer a 1900 € advantage over the A7Rii, and even for me the A7Rii is currently overkill vs. my needs.
I agree and I see the A7RII as the current “steal” in FF Mirrorless if a person can live with a single card slot, is indifferent about needing to carry extra batteries, and actually wants 40+ megapixels. For the price of the Canon RP (which has worse battery life) you get access to a state of the art camera (by 2015 standards), the first really good Eye AF implementation, good high ISO ability, access to the widest selection of native Mirrorless lenses, and room to really crop your images.
 

Bugleone

Well-known member
....yes, it's an amusing read, but what exactly is that?.....is it an advert for sony a7iv?....is it some calculated strategic put-down of Fuji 100? There is what looks very like a Sony advert immediately after his story.....is the main purpose to 'diss' the fuji since sony must be frightened by the new competitor....

WHAT is this account and WHY was it written?
 

pegelli

Well-known member
WHAT is this account and WHY was it written?
For me it's just click bait from a person who experienced that his MF gear was too heavy (personal opinion, for some it is for some it isn't). For the rest I think he's confusing several concepts to support his bias that the A7Riv is "better" than the Fuji GFX100. I have no problem if that's his personal evaluation but selling it as the "universal truth" is hogwash imho. I think most people who have or are considering MF are smart enough to see that MF has certain advantages that can outweigh other disadvantages of the larger format. And if they really want MF and the "look" it provides I don't think they will suddenly stop this dream and settle for a 60 MP FF camera. The A7Riv is a very capable camera and more than many people need, but I don't believe it's a serious threat to MF sales.
 
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