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Any leaf aptus II 10 users here?

guphotography

guphotography

Well-known member
I'm seeking information on how this back works on tech cam.

Previous discussions mentioned this back has no microlens, I'd like to hear from first hand experience how accurate this is and if there is any colour cast with Schneider lenses in particular.

Much appreciated!
 
D

daz7

Active member
I believe that all Dalsa sensors apart of their old 33MP models have microlenses. Leaf Aptus II-10 would have microlenses but how it behaves on a tech cam, I have no idea.
I was quickly trying to find relevant datasheet on the Dalsa website but to no avail.
 
K

kinglang

Active member
Paul Spinnler said:

Experiences with Leaf Aptus-II 10 on tech cam.

I'm contemplating upgrading my Aptus-II 7 to a Aptus-II 10 and have been searching the net for hands on experience using it on a tech cam, but nothing really comes up. I primarily shoot landscape and do quite a bit of flat stitching and can see my self using it for panoramas (left/right shift)...
www.getdpi.com
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Personal experience, Aptus-10 with Schneider lenses together produce huge color cast,Such as SK28, 35, 43, etc., but 60xl needn't to do LCC correction on aptus10.
 
P

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I had the Aptus 12 II, for what it is worth, and back then thought of selling my beloved 43XL because the Color cast was so strong. The 28 XL was impossible to use …
 
guphotography

guphotography

Well-known member
Paul Spinnler said:
I had the Aptus 12 II, for what it is worth, and back then thought of selling my beloved 43XL because the Color cast was so strong. The 28 XL was impossible to use …
Click to expand...
It was the mention of "lack of micro lens" in that thread got me interested in this back, the only one in the Leaf line up that differs from all others.

So far two user experiences contradict with each other, no winner just yet. I'm considering it as a backup back, if it is truly without micro lens, though highly unlikely.
 
buildbot

buildbot

Well-known member
Paul Spinnler said:
Indeed it is a unique variant - there was never a 56mm sensor again ...
Click to expand...
Anyone know the name of the sensor itself? I spent a bit searching but was unable to fine any reference to it. They don't list it as a legacy sensor even on their current site (dalse-e2v's)
 
4

4x5Australian

Well-known member
The Leaf Aptus-II 10 sensor does incorporate microlenses. It uses the same 6.0um pixel structure as the 60 Mpx backs P65+, IQ160 and IQ260.

The comment by torger in this 2015 thread contains some technical details: https://www.getdpi.com/forum/index.php?threads/phase-one-p65-or-leaf-aptus-ii-10r.55991/

Early suggestions that the Aptus-II 10 did not contain microlenses were wrong. People were guessing at why the Aptus-II 10 produced less colour cast than the 12.

The Aptus-II 12 used the same 5.2um pixel sensor as the 80 Mpx IQ180 and 280 and produced strong colour cast with the highly angled light rays exiting symmetrical lenses.

The increased colour cast was related to the decrease in pixel size from 6.0um to 5.2um.

That's why, until the IQ4 and its BSI design, many architectural photographers either stayed with the 6.0um 60Mpx backs or changed over to the retrofocus lenses from Rodenstock.

The IQ4 changed everything.
 
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buildbot

buildbot

Well-known member
4x5Australian said:
The Leaf Aptus-II 10 sensor does incorporate microlenses. It uses the same 6.0um pixel structure as the 60 Mpx backs P65+, IQ160 and IQ260.
Click to expand...
Couldn’t that be customized later/not added at all? I was under the impression that both color filters and microlenses were another step during fabrication that is easier to alter than a silicon mask respin. For example the gfx 50mp sensor is supposed to have tweaked microlenses and color filters for fuji?
 
A

anwarp

Well-known member
From my understanding of crosstalk colour cast, I would expect micro lenses to reduce colorcasts.

Micro lenses were added to sensors to improve their sensitivity as the pixel pitch became smaller.
Traditional sensors (pre-BSI), had the electronics to read the data sitting above and around the light sensitive layer. Due to this only a part of the light hitting the top of the sensor would actually get to the photo diodes. The micro lenses helped by focusing the light hitting the top surface down through the hole, increasing its efficiency and sensitivity.

With CMOS sensors, the way the data is read out in parallel makes this supplementary electronics more complicated. If you were to build CCD sensor and a CMOS sensor using the same silicon process technology, I would expect the CCD to have shallower wells as there is less circuitry required around each pixel.

Unless the cell wall is opaque, non-perpendicular light hitting a pixel could contaminate adjacent pixels.

Compared to a flat surface, the micro lens should refract the oblique light rays more towards the centre of the pixel well.

With BSI sensors, the well is practically nonexistent as the light hits the “back” of the sensor where the photo diodes are without having to go down a deep well. This also simplifies the layout of the electronics on the “front” of the sensor.

A lower pixel density back should have less crosstalk compared to a higher density back of the same sensor generation.

I think the depth of the ”well” has a bigger part to play in the colour cast problem.

This is my belief, not necessarily the truth!

And it does not answer the original question!

Anwar
 
K

kinglang

Active member
I have also read those evaluations of Aptus-10 II DB, then tried it myself, and found that there is no difference resulting color cast is similar to the IQ180.
 
4

4x5Australian

Well-known member
buildbot said:
Couldn’t that be customized later/not added at all? I was under the impression that both color filters and microlenses were another step during fabrication that is easier to alter than a silicon mask respin. For example the gfx 50mp sensor is supposed to have tweaked microlenses and color filters for fuji?
Click to expand...
What you suggest sounds plausible to me (but I have no expertise in this area) and might well be true in principle. However, it seems that no reliable statement or evidence exists in the public domain to indicate that the slightly wider 56x36mm version of the Teledyne Dalsa 6.0um pixel sensor used in the Leaf Aptus-II 10 did not have the microlenses contained within the standard 54x40mm version of the FTF9168C used in the P65+, IQ160 and IQ260. Why would the engineered design be changed on just that size variant to remove them? If the standard 54x40mm version needed microlenses, then surely the slightly wider 56x36mm version would need them too.
 
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G

Geoff

Well-known member
A few years back, had a Leaf Credo 60, which I believe had the same wonderful sensor. I recall discussion about micro lenses, and it wasn't super clear at the time. I think there were lenses, but they were more modest than other backs: the overall impression was that there was significantly less color cast. I recall shooting with a 60mmXL and not needing an LCC, and even in some cases, getting by with the 43mm with shifting, and while some correction was needed it wasn't extreme. In a pinch one could go to BW if an LCC wasn't shot, even with shifting. It was a delightful back. Replaced by a 3100, mainly for the size and live view, the CCD was more forgiving.
 
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