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Bargain MFDB deals at dealers!

f8orbust

Active member
Bargain ... MFDB ... hmm, they don't often go together ... but has anyone noticed the recent trend of used MFDBs being cheaper from dealer's than privately? Ok, trend is maybe not the right word, but there are certainly some deals to be had. Not sure why this is - the large number of trade-ins for IQ backs, or the advent of 36MP Nikon's ... whatever, the end result seems to be the same - you can enter the MFD world today for a lot less than even just a couple of years ago.

As an example, here's a P45+ for £7495 = $12k (US) from a UK dealer. Most that I see privately for sale start at $12k. All things being equal, if a dealer is selling one for $12k, a private sale should be significantly less, otherwise why bother? Taking my general rule-of-thumb that a private sale should be at most 80% of what a dealer is asking, for gear in the same condition, this means that mint P45+s should be going for around $9.5k privately.

Another one: Optechs digital had an Aptus II 12 for sale a few weeks back for $20k - cheapest I've seen privately is $25k - another great deal. Surely these should be going privately for around $16k? Optechs just had an IQ180 for $33k - which should mean privately they're going for a lot less...$26k...but they're not. Here's a UK dealer with an IQ180 for $29.8k...so privately this should be $23.8k. Cheapest on eBay that I've seen is $32k (didn't make its reserve however). Why would anyone bid $32k if for $2k less (in the UK) or $1k more (in the US) you could buy from a reputable dealer like dtek/optechs (respectively)? P25+s seem to sell privately for $7k+ well here's one with only 3500 actuations for $6.8k - from a dealer. DTEK just sold one with only 460 exposures for the same price. Both with 1 year's support. Again, as a private sale - with no support - they should be going for significantly less ... I'd say around about the $5.5k mark.

So, it seems to me now that now, more than ever before, it's worth checking with a dealer if you're interested in a MFDB, rather than just assume a private seller is going to be a more economical proposition. If the private seller is wanting nearly as much as the dealer (or more), then it's gotta be the dealer every time - for the added support they bring to the table.

Jim

P.S. I realise that different warranties can add value to used sales - be they a dealer or private seller - but private sales of used P/P+/Aptus backs rarely seem to come with any of the 'added value loaner back' type warranties, so the warranty you get from the dealer - usually 30 days -> 1 year makes a dealer an even more attractive proposition.

P.P.S. I also realise that private sales may allow for tax avoidance, which makes them more attractve to non-professionals - who are generally registered for sales tax (VAT in the UK, HST in Canada etc.) and can claim it back. However, even taking that into account, I still feel a lot of private sales are pitched too high, and that dealer's shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

P.P.P.S. If anyone spots any great deals to be had at (reputable!) dealers, why not post them here and let everyone know? It'll sure it'll be more tempting than the usual 'phone for price' (à la buying a used car) scenario.

P.P.P.P.S. I'm not a dealer.
 

carl-b

New member
It is true the private sales are not that cheap. Some can be. I have not long found out craigs list is in the UK now. A few months ago, one person was selling a 9 month old DF plus a p45+ and 80mm lens for £4000

Also the first one you linked to needs to have VAT added to it if your in the UK. So that adds another 20% to it, which takes it up to £9000.

But bargains are still out there, via gumtree/ craigslist here in the UK at least.

Even now there is a DF/ Aptus 11 8/ 55-110mm/ 80mm Schneider LS lens/ 10 CF/ RRS L bracket. All less than 3 months old, the price?

£4100 :eek:
 
P

photographist

Guest
Even now there is a DF/ Aptus 11 8/ 55-110mm/ 80mm Schneider LS lens/ 10 CF/ RRS L bracket. All less than 3 months old, the price?

£4100 :eek:
Quick! Send me the link to the last one!!! :eek:
 

f8orbust

Active member
Also the first one you linked to needs to have VAT added to it if your in the UK. So that adds another 20% to it, which takes it up to £9000.
Yes, you're right - but as noted in my 'P.P.S.' this isn't an issue if you're VAT registered.

Craigslist? You're kidding right? I've seen the ads on there, and they're simply unbelievable. Why would anyone sell a DB that way rather than via a reputable forum, eBay, or a dealer on commission? 99% of these adverts are scams, plain and simple. The remaining 1% are probably selling stolen goods. I would run a mile.
 

yaya

Active member
You can contact the seller and ask for the name of their "local US" dealer and the serial numbers/s of the items. Then you can easily check if these are recorded anywhere as stolen kit or not.

If they don't answer or don't provide the info then....well...you run!
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
There are many good ways to buy a digital back for less than the cost of a new unit. A dealer demo unit, a dealer trade-in, a forum member of long standing and good reputation, a member of a local photo organization which has a track record and references etc.

I don't include Craiglist in that list. Not because every sale there would be a fraud of some sort, but because the risk is intuitively much higher than one of the good ways to buy.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
EBay in my experience is the best source of used equipment.

Best thing about ebay is the rating system. With a dealer you cannot look up how happy clients really are. There no easy 3rd party mediator between a dealer and client.

Dealers have a lot of overhead so their costs are higher.

Just deal with people with a good ebay feedback record and things go smoothly.

I have never had a problem returning and item bought off ebay.

I also prefer companies that deal directly with customers rather than those that insist on you going through a dealer even for a simple repair.

For example with one company I am trying to obtain a part. Simple external stand alone part. Spoken to both divisions, two dealers and two weeks later NO ANSWER YET.

On the other hand I needed a repair of a lens that incidentally has been out of production for about 8/10 years. Called the company directly. Went through things with them over the phone. I sent it in and they ordered the part. lens and part arrived together. Three days later the repaired lens is on it's way back. Total time 8 days.

I know where I'm getting my next camera from.
 

f8orbust

Active member
...had an IQ180 for $33k - which should mean privately they're going for a lot less...$26k...but they're not...
Or maybe they are! The free market has spoken, and an IQ180, bought from CI and sold by a reputable eBay seller, still under warranty with only 891 actuations, is worth...*drum roll*...$24,877.33

So these things do depreciate faster than last year's laptop - ouch :scry:
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Or maybe they are! The free market has spoken, and an IQ180, bought from CI and sold by a reputable eBay seller, still under warranty with only 891 actuations, is worth...*drum roll*...$24,877.33

So these things do depreciate faster than last year's laptop - ouch :scry:
Well, it somewhat depends on the motivation of the seller. If it were a financial emergency then you can understand taking the hit. If it's just someone deciding that they want to spend their money on something else then I would say it's a classic case of a fool and their money being easily parted.
 

atanabe

Member
If you are using this for a business and you listen to your accountant, leasing would most likely be the purchase method. Any computer which includes digital backs are virtually worthless after newer technologies supersede it. So if you are a business you would have leased it through one of the dealers that advertise here and forget about the resale value. Your digital processing fees will pay in part for the back every month and after the lease is up, you can just get a new one. After all, if you bought it and took the depreciation on the back and sold it at a profit, you would have to pay capital gains tax - again this is if you listen to your accountant.

So if this individual was a business, the sale price may reflect the depreciated price. If not a business but an individual, if they had the $$$ to buy one in the first place, losing the $9000 is not a big deal for the bragging rights they had.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Well, it somewhat depends on the motivation of the seller. If it were a financial emergency then you can understand taking the hit. If it's just someone deciding that they want to spend their money on something else then I would say it's a classic case of a fool and their money being easily parted.
Or this person could end up looking like a market genius getting out when they did if prices fall even further. Personally I can see it going either way. And if I had to bet, I'd bet it will get worse. I think the marketing and pricing paradigms for MF DB manufacturers is about to change drastically...
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Nice thread your all trying to kill me. My back is for sale folks.

Seriously some if these sales you have to be careful as some are really bankrupt issues or going out of business sales. Optechs is like a clear case of that trying to clear inventory before closing his doors. On ebay stuff so much could wrong with people paying not following through on sales . Contacting PayPal after payment and shipping than calling foul. Than they pull your money. Seriously be really carefully here.

One thing for sure I'm not going to rip you off nor is a dealer.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Or this person could end up looking like a market genius getting out when they did if prices fall even further. Personally I can see it going either way. And if I had to bet, I'd bet it will get worse. I think the marketing and pricing paradigms for MF DB manufacturers is about to change drastically...
Well if it's a case of 'getting out' then I might suggest that the motivation for 'getting in' at this nose bleed price level was perhaps not fully thought through. If you need to sell it, fine. However, if the motivation is to move on to the next new new thing, well, the market will take it's toll on you. That's life - heck it burns me too.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
No doubt. We buy a new car and don't care much that we loose 15% - 20% of it's value the second we drive it off the lot. Computers are worse, and I think what's newish is now cameras are more emulating the computer model; like 50% residuals after 18 months of use where it used to be more like 67%.

Older MF film cameras are starting to sound attractive to me again :ROTFL:
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
On a related note, I want a P45+ for my Alpa so I'm actually almost pleased that the MFDB market prices are falling. The only problem is that they seem to be falling for every back OTHER than the P45+!
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
It's because TWO of us want one -- and excessive demand keeps prices high! :ROTFL:
 

atanabe

Member
Nice thread your all trying to kill me. My back is for sale folks.

Seriously some if these sales you have to be careful as some are really bankrupt issues or going out of business sales. Optechs is like a clear case of that trying to clear inventory before closing his doors. On ebay stuff so much could wrong with people paying not following through on sales . Contacting PayPal after payment and shipping than calling foul. Than they pull your money. Seriously be really carefully here.

One thing for sure I'm not going to rip you off nor is a dealer.
Flea Bay has gotten a lot more dangerous lately for both buyers and sellers. I spotted a Leica S2 being sold at a bargain price - contacted the seller who normally sells appliance parts and turns out his account had been hijacked. Buying from someone you know or know of via the board is great at least you know they really exist (at least in cyber space).

Buy Guys' back, his wife will be much happier!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Believe me I exist. I will even deliver the damn thing with a full day of training. Hows that for customer service. LOL
 
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