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Buy only one Wide-Angle-Lens – but which one?

DBF

Member
I want to have a lightweight Medium Format Camera.
I will use the Back of the Hassy H5D60 and a Diy „Body“ – holds Back and Lens together in the correct Position and keeps unwanted Light out.
Body will have a „Grip“, with Battery for the Back inside.
On Top of the Body a Viewfinder (will buy one) and a Light-Meter in my Hand…(have one).
The HCD 28 is my favorite Lens for Landscape Photos.
So I want to buy (only one) Lens with similar Focal-Lengh.
28, 32 or 35 mm; Schneider or Rodenstock or…
23 mm is to „short“ for me – tried the HCD 24- didnt buy.
Which one gives the best Results?
Has anyone compared?
Natural Colours are more important for me than every little Detail.
I have no Posibility to try – there is no Shop in my Area.
 

rdeloe

Member
I have to ask, if you have a Hasselblad H5D60 and you have an HCD 28, and you love your HCD 28, why are you not using the appropriate Hasselblad body? It sounds to me like you're going to an awful lot of trouble to cobble together something less capable.

Anyway, I expect you have your reasons (which I'd be interested to hear). But to answer your question, on my own "cobbled together" camera -- a Fuji GFX 50R plus a Toyo VX23D, the widest lens I could use is the SMC Pentax-A 645 35mm f/3.5. I needed a large enough image circle to allow tilt and shift, and this lens gives me that. I'm very satisfied with image quality. It's definitely economical. The D-FA version is supposed to be even better (but it costs a lot more). I'd skip the FA version.

If you have some way to focus a technical camera lens, you could try an SK Apo-Digitar 35mm f/5.6. They cost a lot more than my Pentax (but they cost a lot less than the current Rodenstock lenses).
 
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DBF

Member
H5 Body and HCD28 are heavy.
I want something lighter when "Walking around"
Sorry my English is not so good - I hope You understand what I mean.
 

onasj

Member
The Rodenstock 32 HR is excellent and supports decent shifting. Not sure if that would be too close in focal length to your HCD28 though.
 

rdeloe

Member
H5 Body and HCD28 are heavy.
I want something lighter when "Walking around"
Sorry my English is not so good - I hope You understand what I mean.
I understand now. Thanks.

Is the lighter frame you're building going to have a focusing helicoid? If it has a helicoid you can use a tech camera lens, otherwise the lens you choose has to have its own helicoid.

If you're curious about the SMC Pentax-A 645 35/3.5, I can share some RAW samples. Send me a PM if you want to see some.
 

darr

Well-known member
I shoot with a Schneider/Alpa APO-Helvetar 5.6/28mm on an ALPA TC. I use it for digital and 6x6 film as its image circle is large enough to do so. This lens was not cheap (currently advertised at ALPA for $9800 USD) and was difficult to find at the time I was looking as ALPA was out. After about three years of searching, I was able to purchase my lens from Murray Fredericks. It is super sharp and requires the use of a LCC with my digital back (CFV-50c), but all in all it is a great lens. It is a lightweight wide solution mounted on an ALPA TC.
 
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For your 60 mln back both alternativs are great:
- Schneider 28 mm and 35 mm
- and Rodenstock 28 mm, 35mm and 32 mm.
If you can invest more than 5000 usd than the 32 Digaron-W will be the first choice- it will give you the larger image circle with largest movents, if you dont need much movements the best choice will be the Digaron-S 35 mm ( Apo Sironar HR), same sharpness as 32 mm but smaller image circle that allows you 7-9 mm movements on your big back. Both lenses are graet also for newer backs.
Schneider 28, 35 xl are working graet with your back but not with newer 80 and 100 Mln backs ( with the new 150 mln no problems).
35xl is not expensive and easy to find, but you need the CF filter. The 28 schneider is rare and therefore expensive.
The digaron-S 28 mm is also a great lens , but will give you not much movements on your back.
Anyway all this lenses and much better than Hasselblad 28 mm in all cases: sharper, better performance in the corners, much less or no distortion. Simply the best wide angle lenses, 3 classes better than all Pentax-Hasselblad-Contax-Mamiya wide angle lenses.
 

DBF

Member
Very helpful - thank You!
I dont need Movements. a used Rodenstock 35 mm Lens is not so expensive and has less Weight.
Is the (older?) Apo-Grandagon 35 also a good Idea or is a Apo Sironar much better?
 

rdeloe

Member
Very helpful - thank You!
I dont need Movements. a used Rodenstock 35 mm Lens is not so expensive and has less Weight.
Is the (older?) Apo-Grandagon 35 also a good Idea or is a Apo Sironar much better?
Apo-Grandagon 35/4.5 was designed for film. I've read several times that the Apo-Sironar Digital 35/4.5 is the Grandagon with some tweaks to the optical formula to account for the cover glass on the sensor. It has a 105mm image circle. The Rodenstock Digaron-S 35mm f/4 is the one with the 70mm image circle that is designed for digital.

Is the Apo-Sironar Digital 35/4.5 "much better" than the Apo-Grandagon on which it is based? I don't know, having used neither. However, a person who has used both posted on LuLu years ago that he couldn't tell the difference. Here's an opinion from some users on GetDPI: https://www.getdpi.com/forum/index....apo-sironar-digital-hr-4-35mm-and-tilt.50001/ The take-away from that conversation is that you would be better off with either the Rodenstock Digaron-S 35/4, or the Schneider Kreuznach Apo-Digitar 35mm XL.

Are you going to need a centre filter if you use the Apo-Grandagon or Apo-Sironar Digital 35/4? I strongly suspect yes.

It sounds like you've made up your mind so I should probably keep my opinion to myself... ;) However, I can't think of a more awkward and hard to use arrangement than a hand-held Apo-Grandagon 35/4.5 with a centre filter on a medium format back. You won't be shooting that thing wide-open. Focusing will be a pain. I seriously doubt that image quality will be any number of "classes" better than a quality medium format 35mm. The 55mm Apo-Grandagon I used certainly wasn't better in any meaningful way than 55mm medium format lenses I compared it to.

Anyway, good luck with your project.
 

DBF

Member
Thank You for the detailed Description.
No, I have not made up my Mind, The Idea is also: What is not there, cannot break-down. The "Breakdown" of the H5-Body on the "Journey of Life" last Year was really frustrating.
Focussing is no Problem for Landscape with Wide-Angle-Lens - just set to Infinity. I am thinking to build it without Focus-Possibility.
If I get the same Picture-Quality than with the HCD28 would be ok.
 
the difference between the two rodenstock lenses is extremly huge.
The HR 4-35 mm is a high end retrofocus digital lens- you get it under the older name Apo Sironar Digital HR and the new one: Digaron-S. When you dont need much movements ist the best lens. The HR lenses have perfect sharpness and highest resolution even wide open at aperture 4.
The lens you mean is the older Apo Sironar Digital 4,5/35 mm that is based on analoge Apo Grandagon 35 mm.
This is a classic large format lens and has nothing similar with the HR35 mm.
This less is much, much softer and cant resolve your back really good. It is OK for older backs and nice for bigger movements on them but cant be compered with HR lenses. The digital version is a bit sharper at aperture 8-11 than the older analoge version but not really much- both have the same design.
To use such great lens like the HR 35 mm you should use good camera like Cambo WRS, Silvestri Bicam or similar.
 

rdeloe

Member
Thank You for the detailed Description.
No, I have not made up my Mind, The Idea is also: What is not there, cannot break-down. The "Breakdown" of the H5-Body on the "Journey of Life" last Year was really frustrating.
Focussing is no Problem for Landscape with Wide-Angle-Lens - just set to Infinity. I am thinking to build it without Focus-Possibility.
If I get the same Picture-Quality than with the HCD28 would be ok.
By coincidence, a very nice 35mm technical camera lens with centre filter is for sale on GetDPI from an established member (no connection to me): https://www.getdpi.com/forum/index....apo-digitar-35mm-xl-with-center-filter.68712/

Update: I found another one. https://www.getdpi.com/forum/index....onar-hr-in-copal-shutter-located-in-eu.68118/ Alkibiades was too polite to promote his own sale so I'm doing it for him/her because you're interested in a 35mm tech camera lens!

Both of these are a lot of money for a lens that will be locked to infinity, but I presume you know your business.

Cheers, Rob
 
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
The Rodenstock 32 HR is excellent and supports decent shifting. Not sure if that would be too close in focal length to your HCD28 though.
Agree ^^^ It is maybe the ideal wide for a tech-cam with FF digiback, large IC and incredible performance.
 

jagsiva

Active member
Rodie 32HR would be my #1 choice - I have it on an IQ3100T, and used it for a few years on an IQ180. I have most of the lenses below (28D and 23HR sold recently). You can move 12mm either side in landscape with the FF sensor. I use it with a CF, but not necessary in most circumstances.

Compared to:

If you wanted to compare to the new Phase BR lenses....Marginally better than the SK32BR - slightly sharper, better contrast, and maybe lighter (not sure). If you want to use the XF, you won't miss much with the BR except of course movements.

40HR - much smaller and cheaper. Smaller IC +/- 5mm and tilt of course. IT's almost as good in resolution. This would be my compromise lens. Also not as cumbersome on the camera, takes filters well. If you have the 28HR as I think i read somewhere above, this maybe a good lens as long as you are not looking to flat stitch.

23HR - This is a princess. I sold mine recently as I just wasn't using it. Also very sharp, but very limited movements. Tilt is fine. Prone to internal flare, always needs the CF.
 

DBF

Member
Thank You for sharing Your Experience.
I compared the MTF-Charts of 32mm Digaron W/SW and 28mm Digaron-S Rodenstock Lenses.
The MTF of the 28 looks better to me.
Is that visible in the Photos or am I wrong in "reading" the MTF-Charts?
 
Thank You for sharing Your Experience.
I compared the MTF-Charts of 32mm Digaron W/SW and 28mm Digaron-S Rodenstock Lenses.
The MTF of the 28 looks better to me.
Is that visible in the Photos or am I wrong in "reading" the MTF-Charts?
From my Experience non of Rodenstock Digaron-S or Digaron-W wide angle lenses looks sharper than the other (23,28,35, 32 W, 40W, 50W). On the big sensor- that you also have- the extrem corners of the 32 W are sharper than the of the 28 HR- the agle of these lenses are different. But thay are the same when you compare 32 W to 35 HR ( without movents afcourse).
in the practical use all Digarons should blow your mind on the Photos.
 

alajuela

Member
it should be mentioned that the Rodenstock 32mm is delicate with a copal shutter. My advice would be the the 40mm as mentioned above and it's lighter.
 
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