Changes coming

[pegelli]

I just agreed that there's too much mediocrity being posted and that the strength of getdpi lies in the tech threads and not on the pics.

I just want to respectfully disagree with this statement, obviously you're free to like/dislake the photos of others but to call "too much mediocrity" posted here I think is a typical social medium hyperbole that doesn't do justice to the different skill levels of the members that post images here. And as a developing photographer you can still learn from a photo you don't like (or is mediocre in your words) by analysing what you have done differently. I think just the mere fact people are willing to share their photos here should be applauded. Also if I "like" a post doesn't mean I think the photo is great, I just "like" the fact that the member was willing to share it. If I think a photo is really good I usually make a comment or use the "love" emoticon.
So for me the strength of this site is also the vast amount of photos that is shared here, next to all the nice tech stuff that is found here.

 

[PeterA]

GetDPI didn't have a medium-format forum when it started. The whole medium format thing was a megapixel chase - when 25 was a lot. Blind Freddy could see MF was dying fast as 35mm FF tech advanced- -eg people in LL were denial about the fact that hobbyists were the dominant buyers of MF gear - 15 years ago. I bought a Hassy yesterday not because it is going to make 'better' anything than other cameras I own- but because I just wanted to change out of some gear I never used - my Noctilux paid for the X2D., which could have been a Fuji selling at the same price - I literally tossed a coin in front of my dealer to decide between the two - we both laughed.

Olaf (IMO) there are two types of 'consumers' you can chase - one is the person who googles for info on this versus that camera/lens - and might venture away from youtube ; and the other is the type of person who might feel comfortable in posting among friendly people who are also happy to share information - for free.

Good luck with what you need to do but I will buy a year's subscription to your MF magazine today and i will keep visiting and sometimes posting - for s long as the people I have come to like over many years continue to be here as well.

atb
Pete

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The problem is the site is not growing really – and you need to abstract from what YOU find so great about here and why then if that's such a nice thing we don't have a few hundred people online as members and a few thousand lurking and a growing trend. In the end the facts count and not what one finds so nice personally.

It seems to me that the numbers grew a tiny bit, but effectively, at leat it is my impression, the site is stalling with a die-hard core of people driving the tech and image sections, sometimes with no overlaps.

Just go through the fun with X, trees, flowers, boring, etc. image threads and count the repeat posters.

Let's say you come up with 30. Or 50.

Let's say then each one donates 25 bucks. So 1250. Server costs were 2500 if I remember. LOL.

So that's all nice and all but its not gonna be the living income for anyone. Let alone pay for editorial initiatives, travel, etc. Life's expensive!

The reason there's ads here is because precisely the people here are well-off enthusiasts who will spend 10k on a new body although in the end it might just be used to photograph a tree in the garden or a family member.

The amateur market always carried the photo manufacturers, not the working pros.

But still, I sincerely believe that the Tree, Flower or boring photo threads are not the source of sustainable income paying for an editorial staff in the future.

They need to make some changes. And I would understand if some of the image threads were chopped in the process of streamlining or managing server costs.

Let's say they go the old LuLa way. Monthly video content, workshops, paywalled deeper articles. Let's say that' 50 bucks a year. If all the lurkers (ca. 1000) would pay that we'd have 50 grand. Maybe that would be a good basis for some fixed staff, but even this is not easy, I'd assume.

 

[pegelli]

The question is if the site needs to be sustainable financially to pay for server cost and fixed staff. If that is the case I think it's very hard to make any business case.

However if it's a marketing and advertising platform for his magazine and the sponsors and just needs to cover server cost it's a different matter.

Donations and sponsors will make the second option sustainable. I think the first won't work, certainly if you cut half your members and input to start that endeavor.

 

[lookbook]

... i'm almost certain that visitors to this site also want to see excellent photos, even if they otherwise come by for camera technology
or for reviews of different equipment.

I thought it was a shame that the somewhat half-hearted attempt to encourage creativity was hastily scrapped.
Was the approach bad or were the pictures not good enough?
Perhaps both.

In any case, there should also be a lighthouse that shines with pictures
either from our own series, or mixed with contributions from Olaf's magazine if possible.
1000 visitors should not only be in good hands with us because of the technical contributions.

Uwe

 

[Ai_Print]

On the note of the thousand plus visitors, at I have been skeptical of what that actually means. For example, at the moment, the site info says there are 15 members and 1,069 “guests” but in looking at about 20 pages of said guests activity and with a great deal of consistency, 80% of them are looking at the forum list. I have my doubts that most of these guests are even people at all.

On the note of someone learning something from viewing a mediocre photo like how they would have improved it: As a person who taught a few semesters at a great photo program as a means to give back, I can whole heartedly tell you that the biggest jumps in learning occurred when the students saw truly great work and we talked about what made these images get there. And about mid semester when confronted with a really mediocre photo, most said they would not have bothered taking the photo in the first place and certainly would not have presented it for viewing if they had. That means they had developed a sense and appreciation for what was good or not, regardless of the talent level they may or may not have possessed them selves.

To be clear, most of these students in even the earliest stages of the class were still utterly blown away by a great photo and it did not have to necessarily be action packed or dreamy either.

About the only thing a person visiting this site can learn from viewing mediocre work is that they have arrived at a place in which they might not find what they are looking for.

 

[Knorp]

Great: let’s kick out those freeriders (scrapers?) and introduce registered-only access.
Btw already back from your break? …

 

[pegelli]

On the note of the thousand plus visitors, at I have been skeptical of what that actually means. For example, at the moment, the site info says there are 15 members and 1,069 “guests” but in looking at about 20 pages of said guests activity and with a great deal of consistency, 80% of them are looking at the forum list. I have my doubts that these are even people at all.

I agree with you in this, most of these visitors will be search bots and not real people.

And I simply disagree with your teaching method as the only way to learn, that's why I just smile when teachers claim their way is the only way, it's no use arguing with them on that. I don't disagree that looking at great photos (or paintings/drawings) is a good way to learn but looking at something you like less (your own or someone elses) can at least teach me a lot as well.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

That’s interesting with the bots! And I think one needs to learn how to appreciate, yes!

 

[Ai_Print]

I agree with you in this, most of these visitors will be search bots and not real people.

And I simply disagree with your teaching method as the only way to learn, that's why I just smile when teachers claim their way is the only way, it's no use arguing with them on that. I don't disagree that looking at great photos (or paintings/drawings) is a good way to learn but looking at something you like less (your own or someone elses) can at least teach me a lot as well.

OK, so fair point on that last part.

For example, there are a few people's work that gets high acclaim that does not really do it for me. I can still appreciate that it is good work in the sense of what makes a photograph good, it's just not work that makes me feel inspired to go out and make images my self after having seen it. And I am not talking about the more business-gimmick-ish formulaic work of the likes of Peter Lik or David Yarrow either.

Let's even the cerebral playing field here a bit and say that with logical proportions, one can learn to a varying degree from mediocre work and great work. I still think that most of the inspiration to push personal boundaries and get out of comfort zones to do better work comes from in having seen it in the first place. So if there is a dearth of genuinely good work in a regular haunt but a denial that is an issue, well you can see where that might lead and more to the point, not lead in terms of outcomes?

So I will say it in the simplest of terms and leave at this. People, those who like to laugh are coming for your proverbial internet heads. They have been making a mockery of your high priced gear by outshooting you with their iPhone Pro. And now they are taking the entire thread of blah macro photos as a source for their Midjourney AI cocktails and creating fantasy wunderkind that makes the notion of bothering with a real photo at all a complete joke.

How do you want this to play out and what are you willing to do about it? The one thing I left as a finger waving piece of advice for every student is that no matter what happens after their learning, if they become a working photographer, avocational or hobby one, do your best to Keep Photography Important. Become an influence and voice in how it is to be viewed and appreciated.

We all do that by keeping it real.

 

[lookbook]

... is praised by the one who praises you!

that's what we try to do here in the forum,
but with less success!

in this respect i am also not very pessimistic!
a great lighthouse project with good, very good and fantastic pictures
helps the forum - and it helps to find new users -
no matter how many bots spend their time here!

i am firmly convinced of that!

 

[drunkenspyder]

But a donation model will work, I've donated in the past for GetDPI (when the site was taken over by Olaf) and if money is a problem a little more communication by the site officials will make me donate again and I'm sure there are many more who will be doing the same.

I believe I have donated in the past, but to remove all doubt, I did so today. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Geoff]

I've been a member of the LFF since it was a bulletin board. The site is owned by QT Luong (his website), a highly-published and renowned photographer who keeps it running purely from his dedication to large-format film photography. It operates solely by anonymous donors and volunteers and has never talked about becoming a commercial entity.

I don't envision a merger between this forum and LFF happening, primarily because the members on each platform predominantly specialize in different photography mediums – film on LFF and digital here. Many LFF members take great pride in their expertise in film craftsmanship, and I can recall when the term "digital" had a negative connotation there. For some members, this perception still lingers. I don't see how a merger between the two sites would benefit LFF. Besides, I think Photrio is where a film forum brought digital into its offerings.

While LFF does have sections dedicated to sharing digital images, its core focus remains firmly rooted in large-format film photography. While there may be a handful of disgruntled individuals there, on the whole, I've consistently found it to be a forum I visit regularly. It serves as a valuable resource and a tight-knit community for enthusiasts passionate about shooting with large-format film cameras and immersing themselves in film development processes. Many young people do visit the LFF, initially asking for assistance, but once they get what they need, it can be easy to find resources on the site by searching.

One aspect I find puzzling in this discussion thread is the perception that sharing images on this or other forums may be viewed negatively, or at least it sounds that way. I come from a photography background that dates back to the days of 4x5 transparency film for magazines and advertising. I enjoyed a lengthy career that transitioned into the digital realm, and I've also taught photography professionally for 30 years. Yet, I'm still learning by exploring the work of other photographers.

While I've collected books featuring the work of photography legends, that source of inspiration lost its appeal to me decades ago. I no longer wish to purchase books or magazines that merely reiterate what I've already seen. Instead, I find immense satisfaction in encountering fresh and innovative work from any source willing to share it (Lenswork is a valuable resource for me). As a lifelong photographer with an enduring passion for the limitless possibilities within photography, embracing and continuing to share new and original images is essential.

So, I encourage everyone to keep sharing their work because, for many of us, this is a significant aspect of what a photography forum has to offer.

Continue to be impressed by the wisdom here in the comparison of LFF and GetDpi. They both are good forums, and of very different character. LFF has a kind of "old shoe" sensibility to it, it's slower, more methodical, more LF. And I love it for that.

This forum is a bit different - it's heavy on MF, and digital backs, and is important for that. It's my go-to site. And there is decorum here, welcome in these times and to be preserved. That said, there is also a kind of "oh yes, and that too....", with a number of different sub-forums for all sorts of things - coffee, bicycles, architecture, trains... as well as other formats. And that's nice too, and while not my first place to go, sometimes one needs a break. It's like walking in a city and you find something you sort of didn't expect, but aren't too surprised either. And that's part of the charm here.

So from this perspective (as a user only, not an owner), I like the forum as it is, even with its disparate parts, and kind of messy overall sense - it still has a very clear purpose and stands head and tails above the others (maybe LFF is the only exception). Photrio (used to be APUG) is also pleasing but in a different way.

If one puts on the owner's hat, the model either works financially or it doesn't. Assuming it doesn't (else why change?), the trick is how to sustain it without losing its charm. And the pitch here is that the charm is in the messiness, the coherence of both tech and hobby, big and small, highly defined and not so well defined. I'd hate to see that go in pursuit of "more market focus" or other sales speak. Would be happier to chip in a bit each month just to keep it going.
Geoff

 

[KeithL]

Timothy Vanderweert's Leicaphilia is the only forum/blog that I miss or I'm ever likely to miss. The rest are - for me - just a distraction from what it is I should be doing.

 

[bensonga]

Olaf (IMO) there are two types of 'consumers' you can chase - one is the person who googles for info on this versus that camera/lens - and might venture away from youtube ; and the other is the type of person who might feel comfortable in posting among friendly people who are also happy to share information - for free.

Good luck with what you need to do but I will buy a year's subscription to your MF magazine today and i will keep visiting and sometimes posting - for s long as the people I have come to like over many years continue to be here as well.

atb
Pete

I am a long time GetDPI user who has enjoyed the forum and felt comfortable sharing my images (most were not artistic, noteworthy etc and none great) and thoughts/experiences here.

I already subscribe to and pay for many photography related magazines/publications and forums. I prefer to see images in print, but I do subscribe to ONE digital only photography magazine which is On Landscape. I just have no interest in subscribing to additional digital only photography magazines such as Olaf's Medium Format or Elements. If these magazines were available in print, I would be inclined to subscribe. As I currently do to LFI, Aperture, Frames, ZEKE, LensWork, BJP, SilverGrain Classics and others.

I would pay for a GetDPI annual membership as it currently exists. To support GetDPI in its current form and Olaf's business model for GetDPI, I have donated $50 today.

Would I pay for or donate to GetDPI if it was a medium and large format only forum with fewer of the people particiapting/sharing info and images than I've come to know here since 2008? Hard to say, but it is less likely.

Gary

 

[olafphoto]

I agree with Jorgen's comparaison with the museum and the oil paintings ...

Another important consideration not to be forgotten, the "suction factor" ...

When I first found this place, I was a 100% micro4/3 shooter, 100% amateur ... I immediately liked the level of technical knowledge available and the friendly communication between members ... and the beautiful images in all of the sections ...
As such, I learned about the digital medium format cameras (I had a Mamiya C220 40 years ago, but it was stolen from me), got interested and quietly sat waiting and searching for an opportunity to buy into digital MF at a price within my budget ...

It was a long wait, but finally the member Pemiham showed up selling a Mamiya DF with a P30+ back and a SK 80mm lens in the B/S section, at a price I could afford ...
So here I was, happily shooting digital MF ... and since Capture One was free of charge when operated in combination with Phase One images, I installed that software on my computers ...
I was happy with C1 so I decided to buy it to be able to edit my micro4/3 images too ... I still edit all my images with C1
I went on the hunt for some more lenses, and now I am the happy owner of 7 MF lenses ... I agree, I suffer from a mild form of GAS)

If it hadn't been for GetDPI, I would never have gone that way ... and I do not think that I am the only one here who bought cameras, lenses, tripods and all kinds of other accessories because they learned about them here in the first place ...

So I can definitely say that this "open to all photographers" place sucked me into digital MF and spending quite a lot of money on photographic gear, which, in the end is good for the industry and thus also for the sponsors here .... last but not least, thanks to GetDPI, I also subscribed to MediumFormat and Elements.

Merry Christmas to all of you !
Rafael

Thank you for your feedback and support!

 

[olafphoto]

I am a long time GetDPI user who has enjoyed the forum and felt comfortable sharing my images (most were not artistic, noteworthy etc and none great) and thoughts/experiences here.

I already subscribe to and pay for many photography related magazines/publications and forums. I prefer to see images in print, but I do subscribe to ONE digital only photography magazine which is On Landscape. I just have no interest in subscribing to additional digital only photography magazines such as Olaf's Medium Format or Elements. If these magazines were available in print, I would be inclined to subscribe. As I currently do to LFI, Aperture, Frames, ZEKE, LensWork, BJP, SilverGrain Classics and others.

I would pay for a GetDPI annual membership as it currently exists. To support GetDPI in its current form and Olaf's business model for GetDPI, I have donated $50 today.

Would I pay for or donate to GetDPI if it was a medium and large format only forum with fewer of the people particiapting/sharing info and images than I've come to know here since 2008? Hard to say, but it is less likely.

Gary

Thank you for your donation. We will be happy to send you a sample of the ELEMENTS Magazine at no cost to you

 

[Knorp]

I am a long time GetDPI user who has enjoyed the forum and felt comfortable sharing my images (most were not artistic, noteworthy etc and none great) and thoughts/experiences here.

I already subscribe to and pay for many photography related magazines/publications and forums. I prefer to see images in print, but I do subscribe to ONE digital only photography magazine which is On Landscape. I just have no interest in subscribing to additional digital only photography magazines such as Olaf's Medium Format or Elements. If these magazines were available in print, I would be inclined to subscribe. As I currently do to LFI, Aperture, Frames, ZEKE, LensWork, BJP, SilverGrain Classics and others.

I would pay for a GetDPI annual membership as it currently exists. To support GetDPI in its current form and Olaf's business model for GetDPI, I have donated $50 today.

Would I pay for or donate to GetDPI if it was a medium and large format only forum with fewer of the people particiapting/sharing info and images than I've come to know here since 2008? Hard to say, but it is less likely.

Gary

Well Gary, if you can donate 50 buckazoids I suppose I can donate that as well. And so I just did ...
But if the little sensors has to go then I want my money back ...

 

[olafphoto]

Thank you so much for all your thoughts and comments. I read them all. Also, I would like to thank each and every one of you who made a donation to help with the cost of running the website. Every donation makes a big difference. THANK YOU! If you made a donation you should receive an email from me.

 

[Ai_Print]

Thank you so much for all your thoughts and comments. I read them all. Also, I would like to thank each and every one of you who made a donation to help with the cost of running the website. Every donation makes a big difference. THANK YOU! If you made a donation you should receive an email from me.

In addition to the donation, I subscribed to MF magazine. I have a couple of things to pitch for upcoming issues, I will let you know when I am ready to show it. Have a good weekend everyone.