Changing the rules

[Geoff]

Thought to throw an idea out there for discussion - are other people finding that we are in some significant moment of change with regard to our photographic gear? The capabilities have been expanded enormously in just the past few years, with 100mb sensors allowing use of major cropping (one lens solutions?), high quality high ISO, IBIS handholding in ridiculously low light, allowing shooting in new places and times, and whole host of new lenses remarkably sharp and more compact... it just seems that the older rules of what-to-use, when and where, are now getting majorly revised and turned around. A lot to catch up on.... Not to mention the ability to revive old lenses on new gear, or being able to move parts from one platform to another much more freely

The opportunities are widely expanded. Are we in a new round of explorations - where to go, what to shoot, what is now within the bounds (as it were)? Anyone else seeing this too? Any thoughts?

Geoff

 

[SrMphoto]

Here are my thoughts on the topic.

The high ISO performance has not improved much in the last 20 years (launch of D800). The dual conversion gain added less than a stop improvement at high-ISOs. The BSI sensors gave us faster readout speeds, making electronic shutters more useful, but the stacked sensors make electronic shutters a real option to mechanical shutters.
We are still waiting on sensors with global shutters, but I am most excited about the future photon-counting technology.
To me, the main advance in the last decade is that the gear (FF and MF) has become lighter and, therefore, easier to carry around. The IQ improvement, thanks to IBIS, is real but mainly applicable to relatively stationary subjects.

 

[Knorp]

My probably last sobering thought for this year: with AI and Deepfake seriously knocking at the door - will we still need photographic gear ?

 

[jotloob]

Bart
I have asked my self that question already a couple of times but not really came to an answer .
Looking back the last ten years , for example , I found that I have invested a hell of a lot of money into photographic gear and also computers .
I have definately come to a point , where I can say , I have much more than everything I need to shoot , and more and newer gear does not make my images any better .
As I do not have to earn my living with photography , I decided to just play around with my gear and shoot for my own fun , no matter if others like what I shoot or not .
Does that make any sense ? ? ?
Happy new year and all the best to all who read this . Best . Jürgen .

 

[steveash]

My probably last sobering thought for this year: with AI and Deepfake seriously knocking at the door - will we still need photographic gear ?

For the pleasure of creating, AI is no replacement but commercially, I can see it replacing stock images very quickly. It can’t however replace family pictures, holiday memories or a company’s new product. Not yet anyway.

 

[Ray Harrison]

My probably last sobering thought for this year: with AI and Deepfake seriously knocking at the door - will we still need photographic gear ?

I think people value things and materials over “artificial”, ultimately. When my spouse and I were in the UK this past autumn, we spent some time in Oxford. There was an exhibit at the Weston library (part of the Bodleian) on The Book. Part of it talked about the Kindle and how at the time, people thought it would be the end of books. Far from it. Books are still a valuable part of culture. It changed things, sure, but humans are tactile creatures. We like mechanical tools and the texture of paper. We like when a human puts a piece of themselves into art, be it photography, painting or otherwise. I’m hopeful. Will we need to pivot or think differently? Maybe, but that’s OK.

A friend of mine is a college chemistry professor. The latest non-photography AI rage is ChatGPT. He said it scored an 80 on his final. Maybe it’s time to go back to oral exams .

 

[steveash]

I think people value things and materials over “artificial”, ultimately. When my spouse and I were in the UK this past autumn, we spent some time in Oxford. There was an exhibit at the Weston library (part of the Bodleian) on The Book. Part of it talked about the Kindle and how at the time, people thought it would be the end of books. Far from it. Books are still a valuable part of culture. It changed things, sure, but humans are tactile creatures. We like mechanical tools and the texture of paper. We like when a human puts a piece of themselves into art, be it photography, painting or otherwise. I’m hopeful. Will we need to pivot or think differently? Maybe, but that’s OK.

A friend of mine is a college chemistry professor. The latest non-photography AI rage is ChatGPT. He said it scored an 80 on his final. Maybe it’s time to go back to oral exams .

The problem will be that we won’t be able to tell the difference. On a commercial photographer forum one of the members posted some AI generated street portraits apparently from the turn of the century. One of the retired members posted how irreplaceable film was and lamented how digital images didn’t have the soul that these images possessed. He was rather embarrassed when someone explained their source!

 

[MartinN]

I like my hobby, vintage cameras and stone age digital backs. And taking occasional photos.

 

[jotloob]

I like my hobby, vintage cameras and stone age digital backs. And taking occasional photos.

Martin , that sounds very good to me .

 

[MartinN]

Martin , that sounds very good to me .

Yes, a little less pressure to compete.

 

[SrMphoto]

My probably last sobering thought for this year: with AI and Deepfake seriously knocking at the door - will we still need photographic gear?

I do not see how the experience of creating a photograph can be replaced by using AI or Deepfake.
It is much harder to find inspiration sitting in front of the computer than being outside searching for subjects.
AI and Deepfake can be good for replicating someone else's idea, so taking a one-millionth image of the Horseshoe Bend becomes superfluous, as it should.
Painters were being afraid of photography when it appeared. Likewise, photographers are being fearful of AI now.

 

[MartinN]

The experience is magnificient, but the ever race of technology is not. There is so much to be fearful of, and the more critical commercial work would be too much for me to bear with. Creating is wonderful, but having a long long list of ’has to be’ when creating is not so nice.

 

[Ray Harrison]

The problem will be that we won’t be able to tell the difference. On a commercial photographer forum one of the members posted some AI generated street portraits apparently from the turn of the century. One of the retired members posted how irreplaceable film was and lamented how digital images didn’t have the soul that these images possessed. He was rather embarrassed when someone explained their source!

Oh, I hear you. I've played around with some of that software recently and it can be reasonably impressive for AI art (Stable Diffusion). I think there will have to be new rules of engagement to deal with "photo realistic AI generated art" eventually and where it best fits, because fit it will need to. But it will never catch a real moment. It can make up moments, sure. And for some people, let's face it, that's going to be enough. But - and maybe this is too optimistic (my wife says so) - I feel people do expect a photograph to be of a specific thing in a specific place and in a specific time witnessed by a human, regardless of genre. There's novelty to a painting done by a robot or a photograph-like image generated by a computer and no doubt there will be people who love it but...I'm not ready to trade in my gear just yet .

 

[gurtch]

Bart
I have asked my self that question already a couple of times but not really came to an answer .
Looking back the last ten years , for example , I found that I have invested a hell of a lot of money into photographic gear and also computers .
I have definately come to a point , where I can say , I have much more than everything I need to shoot , and more and newer gear does not make my images any better .
As I do not have to earn my living with photography , I decided to just play around with my gear and shoot for my own fun , no matter if others like what I shoot or not .
Does that make any sense ? ? ?
Happy new year and all the best to all who read this . Best . Jürgen .

Makes sense to me. I also do not make a living with photography. IBIS on my gfx 100s and Sony A7riv are really game changers for me at 85 years of age. I cannot see myself changing or buying new camera gear (sound familiar?). I have my own printer and the biggest print I make is 24"x32" from medium format, and 20"x30 from full frame 35mm.
Dave

 

[gurtch]

Perhaps, although I don’t find that I’m carrying any less gear than I normally do, and I guess it also depends on what you’re doing with all those widely-expanded opportunities. In other words, when all is said and done, what are you pointing that 100mp sensor at? For me I still have the same challenges, hurdles and shortcomings I’ve always had, based on the subjects I’m often drawn to photographing for personal work: Building relationships and trust with the people, stepping outside my comfort zone and embracing new opportunities, being open and perhaps challenging long-held beliefs or working methods, and a host of other things that don’t have anything to do with equipment. True, a camera with a 100mp sensor would enable me to take the most amazing, hi-res boring photos just as easily as with an 18mp sensor camera (As it is right now I can take a lot of very bad and uninteresting photos with my 907x). I guess the question is will all these technological improvements make us better photographers? Dunno.

Guess if I did have one equipment wish, it would be for scanners for medium format film to be improved beyond where they‘re currently at. Despite all these advances in sensor technology, a lot of times these days I much prefer to use my old Hasselblads with some film.

I just had my Nikon Coolscan 8000 scanner serviced, repaired, cleaned and lubed, replaced the FireWire card and cable on my PC and my scanner is up and running again! I am very excited.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

The human experience of being there with your subject, whatever it is, will always be unrivalled. AI cannot replace that - ever.

 

[algrove]

I think Leica has the right idea-back to film. This is my take on that.

 

[mristuccia]

Often ideas come to my mind before images. The last "photographic" project I made has been entirely generated by AI, pictures and texts. But it was a small and extreme experiment.
Not that I like or prefer using AI, but it is another tool in our creativity pocket. And, as usual, we should use the right tool for the job.
I'm still into vinyls, but also CDs and hi-res digital mediums. I'm still listening to jazz and classical, but also modern electronic music.
I don't foresee any replacements nor turning points, just additions to our journey.

Happy New Year!

 

[Ray Harrison]

Often ideas come to my mind before images. The last "photographic" project I made has been entirely generated by AI, pictures and texts. But it was a small and extreme experiment.
Not that I like or prefer using AI, but it is another tool in our creativity pocket. And, as usual, we should use the right tool for the job.
I'm still into vinyls, but also CDs and hi-res digital mediums. I'm still listening to jazz and classical, but also modern electronic music.
I don't foresee any replacements nor turning points, just additions to our journey.

Happy New Year!

So very well said and so very true.

 

[Paratom]

I see 2 things. 1 ibis for medium format, and 2. face/eye detection af.
the first allowing me to shoot at lower iso, the 2nd allowing a very high af sucessrate for sports.
other than that, I am feeling many new features and sensors are overrated. Yes, small advantages over older gear, but not as much as some make it sound.
I am tapping in the trap again and again, well knowing that it wont improve my photos. The neverending search for the perfect equipment !)