Copal 1 lenses - which of these are good for digital & movements

[Allthink_]

Hello
I want to hear your opinion, in case you used one of these or even better, compared some of them, and overall IQ and their performance on digital.

Sinar Sinaron S MC 210mm f5.6 Lens
Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-N 150mm F/5.6 Lens
Rodensotck Sironar N 180mm f/5.6 MC
Calumet Rodenstock 210mm f5.6 Apo-Sironar-N 72° MC
Rodenstock Apo Sironar N 210mm f/5.6
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 180mm f/5.6 MC
Fujifilm Fuji Fujinon W 180mm f5.6 OR CM which is more rare to get.

If you know of any other copal 1 lenses in 120-200mm range that are good for digital & some potential movements, you are welcome to mention them here.

 

[MartinN]

Repro Claron, G Claron and such ? Not optimized for infinity focus, but for studio products ?

 

[JeffK]

I can sell you the 180 and 210 rodies, they’re the best to get.


Rodenstock Sironar-N MC 210mm f5.6
Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital 180mm F5.6

also have the Nikkor. Better than the Fuji.
Nikon Nikkor W 180mm f5.6

 

[Alkibiades]

Hello
I want to hear your opinion, in case you used one of these or even better, compared some of them, and overall IQ and their performance on digital.

Sinar Sinaron S MC 210mm f5.6 Lens
Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-N 150mm F/5.6 Lens
Rodensotck Sironar N 180mm f/5.6 MC
Calumet Rodenstock 210mm f5.6 Apo-Sironar-N 72° MC
Rodenstock Apo Sironar N 210mm f/5.6
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 180mm f/5.6 MC
Fujifilm Fuji Fujinon W 180mm f5.6 OR CM which is more rare to get.

If you know of any other copal 1 lenses in 120-200mm range that are good for digital & some potential movements, you are welcome to mention them here.

all Rodenstock line lenses Apo Sironar N 72° are very good for digital work. mostly the movements are bigger than your camera will allow you.
the white ring lenses are the latest and will be the best ( Sinaron-S version with the white ring is the same lens only selected by Sinar)
Sironar-N MC lenses are physicly the same lenses, but there were different couting used in several generations. The earlier version have not as good contrast as the latest, that is simply the same as the apo.
I would say the 180 mm is the sharpest lens from this line.
Apo Symmar will be the same but made by Schneider. the sharpest here will be the Apo Symmar 120 mm that was later sold as Apo Digitar N.

If you want bigger movenets and has more money to spens so Apo Symmar L or Apo Sironar-S is the top line.

 

[Alkibiades]

Repro Claron, G Claron and such ? Not optimized for infinity focus, but for studio products ?

all these lenses are very sharp and deliver very good resolution, 1:1 would be the optimum so perfect lenses for studio, but very usable for infitity also.
Here the modern version MC coated of the Apo Ronar is the sharpest one.
G-claron little less sharp, but still a very good option, it have bigger image circle, this made him very popular for large format. It is single coated, it was never be a problem when I used it. G-claron replaced by Schneider the Apo Arton and Repro Claron.
I find Repro Claron a very special lens becouse of the coating that is little radioaktiv. I dont think that this lens is something that a normal user want, but a very special one indeed.

 

[MartinN]

I find Repro Claron a very special lens becouse of the coating that is little radioaktiv. I dont think that this lens is something that a normal user want, but a very special one indeed.

I have a Repro Claron in Copal 0, but I don’t sleep in the same room. 210mm

 

[Allthink_]

Hello
Thanks for all your replies
I forgot to mention Rodenstock 120mm f5.6 Sironar-N Apochromatic MC Copal 1

 

[Allthink_]

all Rodenstock line lenses Apo Sironar N 72° are very good for digital work. mostly the movements are bigger than your camera will allow you.
the white ring lenses are the latest and will be the best ( Sinaron-S version with the white ring is the same lens only selected by Sinar)
Sironar-N MC lenses are physicly the same lenses, but there were different couting used in several generations. The earlier version have not as good contrast as the latest, that is simply the same as the apo.
I would say the 180 mm is the sharpest lens from this line.
Apo Symmar will be the same but made by Schneider. the sharpest here will be the Apo Symmar 120 mm that was later sold as Apo Digitar N.

If you want bigger movenets and has more money to spens so Apo Symmar L or Apo Sironar-S is the top line.

Thank you very much for your input
Seems like Apo Digitar N 120/Symmar are copal 0, not copal 1. But good to know it's good, will also look at them.

you mentioned 180 would be sharpest of the list,
either of these ones?
Rodensotck Sironar N 180mm f/5.6 MC
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 180mm f/5.6 MC


For the top of the line you mentioned, I looked online (Apo Symmar L or Apo Sironar-S) and found these ones , some of them copal 0 and some copal 1, they are pretty expensive for used(1000-1500$)
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 210mm f/5.6 L-75° MC (Copal 1)
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 150mm F5.6 L-75° MC (Copal 1)
Schneider Apo Symmar 180mm f5.6 L ~1000$ (Copal 0)
and RODENSTOCK 75° Apo-Sironar-S 150mm F/5.6 (Copal 0)
Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S (Sinaron SE) 180mm F5.6(Copal 1)
while lenses in my list were around 300-400$

 

[Alkibiades]

Thank you very much for your input
Seems like Apo Digitar N 120/Symmar are copal 0, not copal 1. But good to know it's good, will also look at them.

you mentioned 180 would be sharpest of the list,
either of these ones?
Rodensotck Sironar N 180mm f/5.6 MC
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 180mm f/5.6 MC


For the top of the line you mentioned, I looked online (Apo Symmar L or Apo Sironar-S) and found these ones , some of them copal 0 and some copal 1, they are pretty expensive for used(1000-1500$)
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 210mm f/5.6 L-75° MC (Copal 1)
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 150mm F5.6 L-75° MC (Copal 1)
Schneider Apo Symmar 180mm f5.6 L ~1000$ (Copal 0)
and RODENSTOCK 75° Apo-Sironar-S 150mm F/5.6 (Copal 0)
Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S (Sinaron SE) 180mm F5.6(Copal 1)
while lenses in my list were around 300-400$

both are great: Schneider and rodenstock 180 mm.
Symmar and sironar are the same type of lenses, the 72° Apo type are the same lensdesign. In this case the condition of the lens is more important than the company.
Traditional Portraits guys would prefer maybe schneider, for more pleasing bokeh of schneider glass. Some product guys would prefer rodenstock for clinical neutrality and coolness of rodenstock glass. When you look for that sharp lens for studio or stiching take one of these, you will do a great deal with both.
the price is a factor also, you get these lenses for 400-500 euro in very good condition.

the Apo Sironar-S line have a little bigger image circle- that is only a point for large format film.
Also it has a ED lens element, that increase the image quality: the bokeh of the Apo Sironar S is my more pleasing that this of the Sironar-N.
Apo Symmar L is the schneider answer on Apo Sironar S. It has new coatings and bigger image circle.
I use the Apo Symmar L 75° 120 mm for my stichings: I tested this lens against all other lenses in this range and this was simply the best one , I found even no difference to the legendery Apo Digitar 120 mm aspheric.
For the long range I take the Apo Symmar L 210 mm, that I also use for 8x10 film- but these are my personal choice based on my tests.

If I were you I would start with the cheaper option and would look if the results are OK for you. If yes, you made a great deal, when not you can get a step forward, but it will be more expensive, the question is : do you need it?

 

[Alkibiades]

Hello
Thanks for all your replies
I forgot to mention Rodenstock 120mm f5.6 Sironar-N Apochromatic MC Copal 1

it was a really strange lens, discontinued in 1992, not bad, but probably a apo symmar 120 mm made 10-20 years later a better option.

 

[hypermanual]

If you plan to use the lens for macro, Makro Symmar HM 180mm (blue ring), Apo-Macro-Sironar 180mm (orange ring) and Nikkor AM * ED 210mm (gold ring) are options that should not disappoint, though can be rather expensive.

 

[Allthink_]

If you plan to use the lens for macro, Makro Symmar HM 180mm (blue ring), Apo-Macro-Sironar 180mm (orange ring) and Nikkor AM * ED 210mm (gold ring) are options that should not disappoint, though can be rather expensive.

Thank you.
SK Makro 180mm is in my consideration list for long time, it's around 700$.
Nikkor AM * ED 210mm is selling for even less than HM(~500)
Thanks for pointing the Apo-Macro-Sironar 180mm, didn't know about it's existence. If i compare it to Makro symma HM, which in non apo, I assume this one is the more recent and better IQ wise, right?

 

[hypermanual]

Not sure if the Makro Symmar is an APO lens or not. The film era makro symmar 80mm and 120mm lenses got later rebranded as apo-digitars, so... who knows.

I haven't found a detailed test of the 180mm, but there are some tests of 120mm makro symmar, which is from the same generation.

Schneider-Makro-Symmar-HM-120mm — Close-up Photography

Schneider-Makro-Symmar-HM-120mm

www.closeuphotography.com

It looks like the 120mm HM has better CA control than 125mm APO Lanthar macro from Voigtlander.

There's also comparison between 120 HM and 120mm AM Nikkor (wee brother of the 210)

Nikkor-AM ED 120mm f5.6s Large Format Lens Test — Close-up Photography

www.closeuphotography.com

Whether these results apply to the 180mm HM Makro Symmar and 210mm AM Nikkor, I can't say for sure - but I'm reasonably confident that these, as well as Rodenstock, should not disappoint.

 

[P. Chong]

Agree that Nikkors are great and often overlooked for German glass. I have the W 180 is excellent, and my fav is my SW 90/f4. I also have the SW 65/f4.5.

also have the Nikkor. Better than the Fuji.
Nikon Nikkor W 180mm f5.6

 

[Allthink_]

Anyone used Fuji Fujinon CM lenses, like CM FUJINON-W 180MM F/5.6 ? or125/150/210 and have anything to say about it's performance, CA, movements, use on digital?

Also, interesting how these 2 german lenses
Rodensotck Sironar N 180mm f/5.6 MC
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar 180mm f/5.6 MC
compare to another German lenses
smc Pentax FA 645 200mm F4 IF
SMC Pentax 67 165mm F/2.8
and SMC Pentax-A 645 150mm f/3.5