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D780 - living in the past?

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
It will apparently be launched the coming week, but here are a couple of photos. This seems to be a rather conservative upgrade, along the lines of "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". I suppose there's a new sensor (but still 24MP) and new processing. Build quality also seems to be improved. Worth noticing is that there's no joystick, no flash and no vertical grip. Unfortunately, no circular eyepiece. Rumours are that it's also lighter than the 5 year old D750. This looks almost barebones in 2020. Hopefully, that also means they are aiming for $1,800 at launch.

Since I'm clearly living in the past, I'm interested, and have put the D800 up for sale. I'll wait for at least six months though, just in case there are problems at the start. Looks like a nice supplement to my F80 :eek:





https://nikonrumors.com/2020/01/04/...-the-nikon-d780-dslr-camera.aspx/#more-141734
 

Bugleone

Member
Interesting...

So, what's wrong with the D800 and how will this be better?...Did you not 'bond' with the D800?......Are it's files too large?......Too heavy?...??
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Interesting...

So, what's wrong with the D800 and how will this be better?...Did you not 'bond' with the D800?......Are it's files too large?......Too heavy?...??
- Weight obviously. The difference between the D800 and the D780 will probably be around 250g.
- Size, and this is a problem I had when I had the D810 too. Too big for my hand and too big for my most used travel camera bags.
- Video. Earlier, I thought I would only use mirrorless for video. That has changed, and I will use DSLR cameras for video too, but the D800 is not a good video camera.
- No flip screen. I use that a lot, for low angle shots, when I need to be descreet etc.

The D800 is great for what I bought it for, mostly industrial stills, but I think I will be happier with a more versatile camera. The D850 is also an alternative. It has a shallower body and a more distinct grip than the D800/810, although it's still large and heavy.

I also did the mistake on going for zoom lenses. I realise now that I prefer primes for DSLR cameras. If I can afford it, I'm aiming for a 20/35/58/105mm combo.

It all depends a bit on the viewfinder of the D780, particularly the diopter adjustment. I don't like to shoot with glasses and I use +2.5. That's more than most recent Nikon viewfinders can be adjusted to, but with the circular eyepiece of the pro cameras, a +2 or +3 diopter lens can be attached instead of the standard lens, while on the rectangular viewfinders, that's an add-on that limits viewfinder functionality. Interestingly, older Nikon bodies, even my F80 and my D300, and all my Panasonic cameras, can be adjusted to at least +3.

Why DSLR then?
After shooting mirrorless for nearly 10 years, mostly in combination with DSLR bodies, I have noticed that my eyes get "tired" faster when shooting using an EVF. It's a similar feeling to what I get if I work too long with the computer in the evening, although not exactly. Then there's this feeling of added "distance" to the subject. It's there, particularly when the camera is moved or zoomed fast. Then there's battery life (and most battery saving features on mirrorless cameras affect shooting in some way or another).

Oh... and I actually like the sound of DSLR cameras.

I will still use both technologies though, and to keep the door open for two technologies using the same lenses and batteries, Nikon and Canon are the only games in town. Both even give me the option of using film too with the same lenses, although not with Z-mount lenses.

There's been a trend lately to dump DSLR completely when going with mirrorless. "Last year I loved DSLR cameras, but that's soooo 2019, so this year I hate them!". The world is becoming increasingly black and white.
 

DougDolde

Well-known member
I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
 

pegelli

Well-known member
I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
Try comparing to other cameras with the same sensor size and you'll see the D850 is usually bigger and heavier. No doubt it's a stellar camera but small and light are not one of its attributes when compared to similar peers.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
There's been a trend lately to dump DSLR completely when going with mirrorless. "Last year I loved DSLR cameras, but that's soooo 2019, so this year I hate them!". The world is becoming increasingly black and white.
+1

Mirrorless is great for what it does, but I think so are DSLR's. I still have and use these "dinosaurs" and if you don't mind cameras that are a bit older there are more games in town than just Canon and Nikon that can share lenses across mirrorless (APS-C and FF), DSLR's (APS-C and FF) and film SLR's, obviously with the use of the right adapter.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
I will use a Fuji GX680 for an assignment in a couple of weeks. It's around 4 kg plus 1.25 kg for the 50mm f/5.6 wide angle lens :ROTFL:

When it comes to the D850, size is more of a consideration than weight. The grip design makes it a much handier camera than the D800 though, at least for my moderate size hands.
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
I will use a Fuji GX680 for an assignment in a couple of weeks. It's around 4 kg plus 1.25 kg for the 50mm f/5.6 wide angle lens :ROTFL:

When it comes to the D850, size is more of a consideration than weight. The grip design makes it a much handier camera than the D800 though, at least for my moderate size hands.
Living in the past? What's wrong with that?
Think about it for a minute!!!!':ROTFL:

Seriously...

I prefer the 1965 Mustang GT my wife sold when we married in 1971 in order to buy a modern, responsible Toyota Corolla. Damn! What a mistake as were the succession of Toyotas and various American cars that seemed to fit our life along the way. They are all in the recycled process in whatever form their fate dictated.

Enlightenment was one blessing in our lives as we became empty nesters. We still drive two old Mercedes vehicles, total age is 46 years for both. Total mileage well over 500,000 miles. And they are in pristine condition for daily drivers. And far more economical than any other choices.

How about other "past" things in our lives. Honor, dignity, truth, love, peace, happiness, health? :)

The point is, the present is all we have, not the future. The present allows us to learn from and enjoy the good things of our past as well as avoid the bad things wherever possible thereby making the possibility for a better future.

I enjoyed the Hasselblad 503cxi and I still love using the current MF and old Nikons I have now. So, I disagree that you are "living in the past ... you are simply living in the present with the treasures of the past whether they be physically from the past or embodied in present day products.

Pretty cool, right?:thumbs:

And so are you, Jorgen.:)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I am always amazed when people say the D850 is big and heavy. Try a Phase One XF and you will see how tiny and light the D850 is
well, try a Sony A7R4 and you will be amazed how tiny a camera with 61MP can be today - sorry but I had to mention this ;)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Jorgen,

I hear you and maybe a decent DSLR might be better for you.

I have thought very much about this and also about modern mirrorless offerings lately and what would suit me best. I started loving the Fujifilm X-Pro3 lately ( the screen is just marvellous and much better as most complain, the camera is small and stealthy and fast ....) but when really thinking about investing back into another system asides my m43 I come more and more to the conclusion to go back to FF and back to Nikon again.

Having said that I almost 100% sure would not go back to a DSLR based system again - so the answer for me would be Nikon Z system. There will be plenty of new cameras for that mount in the future and the lens system is already pretty good and will even improve over the next years. So it ticks almost all boxes ....

Will see, anyway interested in what you will end up with!
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Here are the leaked data. More or less as expected. This will be a very nice camera, and an alternative to mirrorless rather than a supplement:

Announcement date: 2020/1/7 10:00 Chinese time
24.5MP sensor
12 fps continuous shooting speed
Eye detect AF
51-points AF
273 AF areas in live view (just like the Z6)
ISO 100-51,200
Shutter speed: 1/8,000 - 900s
3.2-inch 2.36 million dot articulated TFT LCD tilting touchscreen
100% field of view pentaprism
4k/30p video
Dual UHS-II SD cards
Weight: 840g
Battery life: 2260 shots
EN-EL15b battery
USB-C charging
3.5mm audio input and output interface
Wi-Fi, Bluetooth
Weight: 840g
Release date: January 16th, 2020
Price (including tax): body 14,800 RMB, 24-120 kit 18,300 RMB (around $2,000 for the body)


More:

・The Nikon D780 is a high-performance full-frame DSLR aimed at both creative photographers and videographers.
・F-mount lenses. 24.5 MP full-frame CMOS sensor. EXPEED 6 image processor. The same 180K-pixel RGB sensor and Advanced Scene Recognition system as the D850.
・The 51-point Phase-Detection AF system is sensitive down to -3 EV. You get flagship tracking capabilities and quick switching between advanced AF modes.
・The 273-point Hybrid-AF system is sensitive down to -4 EV, or down to -6 EV in Low-Light AF.1 Eye-Detection AF is available when shooting stills.
・Shoot at up to 7 fps with AF/AE, or up to 12 fps in Silent Live View Photography mode. Users get full resolution images, even when shooting in RAW.
・The D780 boasts a wider ISO range than the acclaimed D850. Work with ISO 100–51200, extendable up to 204800 and down to ISO 50.
・Shoot ultra-high-resolution 4K/UHD footage at 30p/25p/24p with zero crop factor. Record in N-Log or capture rich Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) footage.
・The 0.70x optical viewfinder gives a wide field of view and 100% coverage. The tilting 2359k-dot LCD monitor offers touch shutter release and AF.
・In-camera time-lapse. 2 MP stills at a blazing 120 fps. In-camera digitising menu. And more.
・The camera’s high-speed data-transfer capabilities and wireless connectivity make it easy to get images out there. And SnapBridge lets users share JPEGs and RAW files with any smart device.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Basically, it's a Z6 with an OVF and 7 times the battery life. With this, I can travel around the world with one battery and no dedicated charger other than the one I use for my phone. I don't need more than this. A perfect companion for my F80 :thumbs:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
No round viewfinder unfortunately, and diopter adjustment is just to +1 (+2). It has a different eyecup from the D750 though, so the question is if they have sold the diopter lens problem. Time will show...
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
This camera is just an unnecessary move from Nikon IMHO.

They should have concentrated their research and development efforts rather on their new Z system. While the D780 maybe will attract some old Nikon F mount shooters I think the number of units they can sell will be huge enough ..... I hope they do not get deeper into problems.

Same is actually true for the new 120-300 2.8 F mount lens, that should have been out already 6 years ago. But now?

On the good side they finally released the new 2.8/70-200 Z mount lens and this seems to be a real winner:thumbup:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
This camera is just an unnecessary move from Nikon IMHO.

They should have concentrated their research and development efforts rather on their new Z system. While the D780 maybe will attract some old Nikon F mount shooters I think the number of units they can sell will be huge enough ..... I hope they do not get deeper into problems.

Same is actually true for the new 120-300 2.8 F mount lens, that should have been out already 6 years ago. But now?

On the good side they finally released the new 2.8/70-200 Z mount lens and this seems to be a real winner:thumbup:
This has been a very easy camera to develop for Nikon. The technology is mostly taken from existing cameras, mostly the Z6 but also the D850 and D750, and with the D750 still being a popular camera, this is a no-brainer. For me, it's a perfect solution to a dilemma; instead of choosing between mirrorless and DSLR, I get everything except the EVF in one, relatively compact package. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to add an EVF to the hotshoe using the HDMI or USB contacts.

DSLR is still alive, and the impressive Canon 1DX III is another proof. I'm sure the D6 will be equally impressive.

Don't forget also that a Z6 with 3 batteries is almost exactly the same weight as a D780 with one battery. Still, the D780 with its single battery using the OVF offers around twice as many clicks as the Z6 with three.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
This has been a very easy camera to develop for Nikon. The technology is mostly taken from existing cameras, mostly the Z6 but also the D850 and D750, and with the D750 still being a popular camera, this is a no-brainer. For me, it's a perfect solution to a dilemma; instead of choosing between mirrorless and DSLR, I get everything except the EVF in one, relatively compact package. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible to add an EVF to the hotshoe using the HDMI or USB contacts.

DSLR is still alive, and the impressive Canon 1DX III is another proof. I'm sure the D6 will be equally impressive.

Don't forget also that a Z6 with 3 batteries is almost exactly the same weight as a D780 with one battery. Still, the D780 with its single battery using the OVF offers around twice as many clicks as the Z6 with three.
My main cons:

1) EVF not built in - absolute NO GO for me - adding one is a NO GO for ne as well
2) making use of old F mount - if one does not own all the F mount glass needed then I would never buy F mount again today as Z mount is simply superior
3) battery life - you refer to numbers in product sheets and on paper - these are totally different (much shorter time) than what you can achieve in real life use
4) I would never again want to travel the world (or simply just a country) with a bulky and heavy DSLR
5) 1DXIII and D6 are simply ruled out for me because of price - these are highly specialised cameras that make sense only for some selected pro shooters
6) if the would have taken the AF system of the D850 (150 points) then this camera would at least be somehow competitive
7) ...... I could go on and on and on - you see this concept is simply no longer for me
 

dave.gt

Well-known member
Jorgen,

You crack me up! Thank you for your humor.:)

As a sole outlier myself in a different universe, I totally agree with your choice! Getting any new equipment for me will never happen again.

That is ok, because I can happily spend the rest of my life with the huge MF and 35 mm kits that I have and never fully master them. That's good because I really enjoy the larger, heavier OVF cameras and the lenses do what I need.

I cannot envision not using the DSLRs, because I despise EVF and my current cameras, including film cameras, are enough. If I cannot make good photographs with them, I will toss them and start oil painting.:) hopefully I will learn painting before that happens!:):):)

So, we all find our sweet spot. :thumbs:

Life is good... except for that unfortunate ... and.., blah blah blah, etc...

Have a good week!
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Nikon D780, D750, D800, D810 ... eh? I had a D750: Used it only briefly. Sadly, modern Nikon cameras simply do not inspire me like the F, F2, F3, FM, FM2, FM2n, FE2 et all did. I liked using those cameras. Anything past them has been just another over-featured thing that I have to work at, it seems.

Not that many other cameras aren't more of the same. As DSLRs go, the Olympus E-1 remains my favorite. If only Olympus had released the same darn camera with a 20 Mpixel sensor and faster IO, I'd still be using a DSLR. I still have my E-1 and still enjoy taking it out and making photographs with it occasionally. :)

I never "went mirrorless" for the sake of going mirrorless. I moved to cameras that worked better for me and inspired me with a viewfinder that I could see better with, had less vibration, and that had the versatility to work with any lens I fit on them. I found the Olympus E-M1 inspiring, same for the Leica SL, and same now for the Leica CL. The CL fits my desires in this general "35mm film camera derivative" domain almost perfectly. My aim for a newer, higher spec camera with 50 mPixels has to have a larger sensor and be usable with many of my existing Hasselblad and Leica R lenses. It will be the Hasselblad 907x Special Edition... waiting for it, hopefully delivery soon now. My last Nikon is a 1961 Nikon F plain prism with two Nikkor lenses, 28/2 and 55/3.5 Micro. :D

Back to the new Nikon D780: It sounds like a good developmental upgrade to the D750. If its new improvements suit your use and needs, it should be great. Enjoy it! Make great photographs with it!

What else really matters? :D

G
 
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