Digital back servicing

[edouard]

I have a CFV-50 CCD back (bought new in 2012), that still works fine but shows more and more hot pixels (with ACR, via phocus they are ~removed) this is likely a sign of aging; is it worth servicing it?
I see on hasselblad website

Repairs

www.hasselblad.com

CCD / CMOS CLEANING

A CCD / CMOS cleaning includes a number of operations to ensure that the camera performance is in accordance with factory specifications – no matter the age of the camera. This is what we do:
Firstly, the IR-filter which protects the CCD / CMOS is removed. The position of the CCD / CMOS can then be measured and, if necessary, adjusted.
A focus calibration is followed by very careful cleaning of the CCD / CMOS with compressed air, cleaning fluid and tissues.
The unit is then mounted on a test bench. A test shot is made through an illuminated piece of opal glass mounted in the filter thread of the lens with the lens focus setting at infinity. The unprocessed RAW-file is inspected on a monitor to ensure that that there is no residue of grease, fluid or dust on the sensor.
A mounting seal is attached and another test shot is made and inspected. The IR-filter is now unwrapped, cleaned on both surfaces and mounted.
The camera then undergoes a full factory test to ensure that the camera still performs according to the factory specifications – no matter the age of the camera. If needed, extra calibrations will be done, or parts will be replaced to ensure correct performance. You will be contacted if the cost of such replacements makes the service charge exceed the current cost estimate limit.

(I know "CLEANING" is not rejuvenating, but from the description 'look they could do more than just clean)

has anybody here tried that? I mean, in general: servicing a working back ?
(like you would regularly do with a mechanical watch )

I'm having fun with my "new" X1D but would like to keep my old CFV CCD in good shape

(btw does anybody knows what happen when such sensor dies? it's unlikely that Hasselblad has a stock of old CCDs ?)

 

[P. Chong]

I have some clouding on my IR filter on my H3D-39 back. Sent it back for service, cost a bit more than USD1k. Looked like this.

Took about 3 months, returned to me good. But problem returned after about 6 months. I sent it back again, and Hasselblad wanted to charge me another USD1k. Luckily, my dealer fought for me, and got it replaced at no additional cost. That was in 2014. The second replacement is still good today.

I also found another place to get the same done. I have never tried, but it is much less expensive than going back to the mothership. Its at https://hasselbladrepair.com/, and looks quite legit.

 

[Jared]

I have a CFV-50 CCD back (bought new in 2012), that still works fine but shows more and more hot pixels (with ACR, via phocus they are ~removed) this is likely a sign of aging; is it worth servicing it?
I see on hasselblad website

Repairs

www.hasselblad.com

CCD / CMOS CLEANING

A CCD / CMOS cleaning includes a number of operations to ensure that the camera performance is in accordance with factory specifications – no matter the age of the camera. This is what we do:
Firstly, the IR-filter which protects the CCD / CMOS is removed. The position of the CCD / CMOS can then be measured and, if necessary, adjusted.
A focus calibration is followed by very careful cleaning of the CCD / CMOS with compressed air, cleaning fluid and tissues.
The unit is then mounted on a test bench. A test shot is made through an illuminated piece of opal glass mounted in the filter thread of the lens with the lens focus setting at infinity. The unprocessed RAW-file is inspected on a monitor to ensure that that there is no residue of grease, fluid or dust on the sensor.
A mounting seal is attached and another test shot is made and inspected. The IR-filter is now unwrapped, cleaned on both surfaces and mounted.
The camera then undergoes a full factory test to ensure that the camera still performs according to the factory specifications – no matter the age of the camera. If needed, extra calibrations will be done, or parts will be replaced to ensure correct performance. You will be contacted if the cost of such replacements makes the service charge exceed the current cost estimate limit.

(I know "CLEANING" is not rejuvenating, but from the description 'look they could do more than just clean)

has anybody here tried that? I mean, in general: servicing a working back ?
(like you would regularly do with a mechanical watch )

I'm having fun with my "new" X1D but would like to keep my old CFV CCD in good shape

(btw does anybody knows what happen when such sensor dies? it's unlikely that Hasselblad has a stock of old CCDs ?)

It’s probably worth asking to be sure, but I would expect the “extra calibrations” would allow them to re-map hot pixels and dead pixels so their values can be automatically interpolated based on surrounding pixels. All CCD and CMOS sensors of significant megapixel counts have defects, even when they are new. The normal calibration process maps them out of the image. CCD chips in particular age with gamma ray strikes over time so you develop more defects—even column defects and clusters. No reason they can’t take care of your issues just as they would have when they originally manufactured the camera. Consumer cameras typically do not spec scientific grade class 1 chips. Depending on the model, there can be quite a few defects even when they are factory fresh.

 

[edouard]

3 Months! and 1k: ouch... I'll ask my dealer (but 'will have to go or send the back to Zurich that is 200miles away from Geneva, that's the problem with ~exotic gear... p.s. Gladly now in Switzerland we can order Hasselblad gear via the large online Digitec - like a mini Swiss Amazon - retailer)
... for now my back shows no "clouding" ...
https://hasselbladrepair.com/ ... thanks ... "we specialize in CCD cleaning and service of legacy backs" nice! But for "IR-FILTER REPLACEMENT & CCD SENSOR CLEANING" they show "Product no: 70990040 (16 Mpix) / 70990041 (22 Mpix)" 'looks strange / amateurish as it should apply to any sensor and is not dependent on sensor resolution.
Has anybody here had experience with them?

... yes, re-mapping hot pixels, but it's like hiding the problem (sensor aging)
Interestingly with Phocus those hot pixels are eliminated, so it looks like there is some dynamical/auto mapping going on (written in the raw, used by Phocus but not by ACR - as in ACR the hot pixels are there) !? or it' might just be that phocus has a ~good generic way of detecting / removing those pixels.

 

[jerome_m]

I remember having read a few years ago that the calibration can be done online: you send a picture to Hasselblad, they send you a new calibration file to upload to your camera. It may be worth asking around.

 

[edouard]

... cool... but wasn't the calibration picture stuff for Hasselblad film scanners? ... anyway, I'm gonna email Hasselblad
thanks

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Hot pixels are not necessarily a result of aging. In fact, I don't know if a pixel related error is usually the result of aging, other than the longer you have it, the more opportunity over time that it could occur. What I did not see is in what conditions did you encounter the hot pixels? Was this a base ISO short exposure? Or a higher ISO or longer exposure? Usually when a sensor has an aberrant pixel, it results in a single pixel line through the image, commonly known as a "column error". A hot pixel could show up as well, but I more commonly see these with long exposures or high ISO captures - the conditions it was shot in are important. Phocus can look for and identify these issues because it may have enhanced read access to the embedded calibration of the file than Adobe does and correct for it. It could be a calibration issue, but it could also be a matter of the conditions it was shot in.


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[citizin]

Hey Steve, I think I have a back that is showing this. Would you mind if I PM/email you with a file for confirmation. I thought I blew a sensor but it's sounding like this is more of the issue.

 

[edouard]

Hot pixels are not necessarily a result of aging. In fact, I don't know if a pixel related error is usually the result of aging, other than the longer you have it, the more opportunity over time that it could occur. What I did not see is in what conditions did you encounter the hot pixels? Was this a base ISO short exposure? Or a higher ISO or longer exposure? Usually when a sensor has an aberrant pixel, it results in a single pixel line through the image, commonly known as a "column error". A hot pixel could show up as well, but I more commonly see these with long exposures or high ISO captures - the conditions it was shot in are important. Phocus can look for and identify these issues because it may have enhanced read access to the embedded calibration of the file than Adobe does and correct for it. It could be a calibration issue, but it could also be a matter of the conditions it was shot in.

Random defects that accumulates over time: isn't that the definition of aging
Those pixels (thousands!) appear at base iso in ~any condition (I only shoot at base iso with this ccd; of course in case you have to compensate under-exposure, or open shadows those pixels are then more intense/visible), obviously those pixels are more visible in dark regions, but are present ~everywhere.
Yes clearly Phocus does something that ACR does not (cannot!?). see attached image close-up.
With older raw e.g. from 2012 when the camera was new (re-processed with latest ACR on macos) there are very few hot pixels, since 2016 they start to be numerous. It's really time dependent (and seems to ~plateau).
Yes, I could just use Phocus and not worry about that, but I'm curious to understand what phocus is doing. It's not just using a simple hot pixel factory mapping, as the number of hot pixel increased over time and Phocus is still able to remove them.

... And I still don't know if a servicing could be really useful for my back (likely I will do the easiest: nothing )

p.s. with my X1D 4116 (= build in ~2016) I start to see (very) few hot pixels too!

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Random defects that accumulates over time: isn't that the definition of aging
Those pixels (thousands!) appear at base iso in ~any condition (I only shoot at base iso with this ccd; of course in case you have to compensate under-exposure, or open shadows those pixels are then more intense/visible), obviously those pixels are more visible in dark regions, but are present ~everywhere.
Yes clearly Phocus does something that ACR does not (cannot!?). see attached image close-up.
With older raw e.g. from 2012 when the camera was new (re-processed with latest ACR on macos) there are very few hot pixels, since 2016 they start to be numerous. It's really time dependent (and seems to ~plateau).
Yes, I could just use Phocus and not worry about that, but I'm curious to understand what phocus is doing. It's not just using a simple hot pixel factory mapping, as the number of hot pixel increased over time and Phocus is still able to remove them.

... And I still don't know if a servicing could be really useful for my back (likely I will do the easiest: nothing )

p.s. with my X1D 4116 (= build in ~2016) I start to see (very) few hot pixels too!

I think aging has many definitions ... or at least symptoms! Like, I think I'm feeling some today, as a matter of fact. My symptoms seem to happen most often on Mondays...

From those examples you posted, I see a few hot pixels, but you reference thousands. But I would say that it is unusual that base ISO of a non-under exposed shot would produce any hot pixels. And if this has seemed to increase over time in apples to apples situations (similar exposure, similar subject matter and subject luminance, similar ambient temperatures, etc, it might be worth sending in for a check up. Phocus will not just correct for aberrant photosites that the sensor mapping specifies, it also can correct for new aberrations that 3rd party converters may not be able to. It could still be related to the base mapping file, and the ability to read that completely.

Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Hey Steve, I think I have a back that is showing this. Would you mind if I PM/email you with a file for confirmation. I thought I blew a sensor but it's sounding like this is more of the issue.

Sent you a PM.

Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[edouard]

I think aging has many definitions ... or at least symptoms! Like, I think I'm feeling some today, as a matter of fact. My symptoms seem to happen most often on Mondays...

From those examples you posted, I see a few hot pixels, but you reference thousands. But I would say that it is unusual that base ISO of a non-under exposed shot would produce any hot pixels. And if this has seemed to increase over time in apples to apples situations (similar exposure, similar subject matter and subject luminance, similar ambient temperatures, etc, it might be worth sending in for a check up. Phocus will not just correct for aberrant photosites that the sensor mapping specifies, it also can correct for new aberrations that 3rd party converters may not be able to. It could still be related to the base mapping file, and the ability to read that completely.

(few hot pixels: it's a small region of the image! multiple that by ~60)

Yes, Phocus is doing a really good job at removing those hot pixels
(and it's not via generic "noise reduction" as the "grain" structure is not altered / looking different than with ACR - as long as you do not forget to bypass default NR luminance 0 that does some nr! should use -10 to have really no lum nr if you don't want/need it)