Digital medium format in 2024 – it's not dead!

[PeterA]

I'm allergic to tripods and use my arca cube as a paper weight - maybe Leica will pull me back into larger than 35mm chips with their new S4 or whatever they decide to call it - but I doubt it. Happy new year to all - enjoy using whatever makes you feel good - that is what photography has always been about for happy snappers - like me anyway.

 

[FloatingLens]

In case somebody wants to look into a 6x6 digital back DIY solution:

QHY 6060 BSI / FSI Cooled Scientific Kamera (verschiedene Versionen erhältlich)

Gekühlte wissenschaftliche Kameras mit GSENSE6060 CMOS Sensor 37 Megapixel bei quadratischen 10 μm Pixelgröße, mit 6.144 x 6.144 Pixel Der großflächige Sensor ist 61,44 mm x 61,44 mm groß, mit einer Bilddiagon

www.baader-planetarium.com

The platform this is based on is called GSENSE6060BSI/FSI. It is expensive, but it is not impossible to use the full image circle of your old Hasselblad V lenses.

 

[Pieter 12]

In case somebody wants to look into a 6x6 digital back DIY solution:

QHY 6060 BSI / FSI Cooled Scientific Kamera (verschiedene Versionen erhältlich)

Gekühlte wissenschaftliche Kameras mit GSENSE6060 CMOS Sensor 37 Megapixel bei quadratischen 10 μm Pixelgröße, mit 6.144 x 6.144 Pixel Der großflächige Sensor ist 61,44 mm x 61,44 mm groß, mit einer Bilddiagon

www.baader-planetarium.com

The platform this is based on is called GSENSE6060BSI/FSI. It is expensive, but it is not impossible to use the full image circle of your old Hasselblad V lenses.

I doubt anyone in their right mind would spend that kind of money only to find out their V lenses don't have the resolving power for digital!

 

[buildbot]

I doubt anyone in their right mind would spend that kind of money only to find out their V lenses don't have the resolving power for digital!

It’s only 37MP, I’m guessing many V lenses would be fine. 10um pixels are nice and forgiving.

Dynamic range is about what a Mamiya Zd would have. Not much, but enough! 10db more than the iXM-GS120.

 

[buildbot]

In case somebody wants to look into a 6x6 digital back DIY solution:

QHY 6060 BSI / FSI Cooled Scientific Kamera (verschiedene Versionen erhältlich)

Gekühlte wissenschaftliche Kameras mit GSENSE6060 CMOS Sensor 37 Megapixel bei quadratischen 10 μm Pixelgröße, mit 6.144 x 6.144 Pixel Der großflächige Sensor ist 61,44 mm x 61,44 mm groß, mit einer Bilddiagon

www.baader-planetarium.com

The platform this is based on is called GSENSE6060BSI/FSI. It is expensive, but it is not impossible to use the full image circle of your old Hasselblad V lenses.

Nice find!

There are actually quite a few sensors out there larger than the current IMX411 used in the IQ4. I keep a non exhaustive list. The problem is cost mostly.

They are used in weird stuff a lot of the time. For example, the MAR CCD165 xray detector uses a fiber coupled 61x61mm CCD, with 2048x2048 resolution. Possibly related to the fairchild ccd used in the dicomed bigshot: https://www.unibw.de/visual-computi...nen/peipe_1997_the-photogrammetric-record.pdf

 

[buildbot]

I was under the impression the difficulty in making big sensors was the challenge to produce them without defective pixels--the larger the sensor, the more chance there will be to have defects. Having tiled sensors would seem like an ideal way to overcome that issue--4 FF sensors in an array would more than cover the 645 format, true 6x6 shouldn't be that much more difficult. It would take 15 FF sensors to cover 4x5, probably a lot more trouble and expense. Speaking of expense, a true MF digital camera or back would probably cost 4x as much as a FF camera...

Yeah that’s exactly correct, defects go up with the area of the chip. Unlike a processor though, an image sensor can have many, many defects before it’s an issue if the defects are just a pixel, or even an entire column of pixels. All the sensors we use today have many pixels if not entire columns mapped out. So defects are not the end of the world.

I do think we will see more tiled sensors though, now that die stacking is common. Essentially, make an image sensor chiplet and stack n of them on n readout chips stacked on n ram buffers all connected to an active silicon interposer… I’m sure this has been done somewhere already haha.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I guess that's product announcement no 1 from the 2024 list confirmed.

+ IS is super surprising with big ramifications: hand-held shooting under sub-optimal conditions with the Alpa TC at say 1/30 becomes a real thing; and of course hand-held with the V cameras also at slower shutter speeds; ie indoor portraiture, etc.

+ Next stop: 90 HR tilt

 

[BigBoy]

Now we just need a more small compact lens for the X system. I have the 45p, and outside of its aperture value, I see no reason to get another lens from Hasselblad. We need a slow telephoto lens and a slow zoom.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well I just realized that with the new Hassy back and IS we will actually get Multi Shot with Hasselblad Colours which means that open platform systems, e.g. Alpa, Arca will benefit if Phase One doesn't come around the corner with a competitive IQ5.

IS not only means handheld shooting, but it also means multi shot!

That's going to be amazing with the classic tech cams with copal or AU shutter lenses!

If a tech cam manufacturer figures out a way to control Fuji lenses – you'd need a recessed Fuji lens board adapter with electronic controls on the Alpa for example – you'd have the best of all worlds in one system. You could take the modularity of a Hasselblad back with HNCS and IS for multi shot and shoot Rodie HR, SK late-gen and Fuji lenses all in one system.

Cracking the Fuji mount and making a smart adapter will drive the future of the tech cam manufacturers.

Phase will have to step up its game to justify the expensive XT lenses if their back can't do M/S or doesn't have advanced colour rendition modes or other technological advancements, such as increased DR – there's still 1-2 stops room, higher res – 250 megapixel one-shot, etc.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Not all is lost for XT fans – the aperture in X shutter lenses stays the same once you turn the back off.

So let's say you have a Cambo or Alpa with X shutter Rodies. As long as you keep an IQ4 you can still shoot the X shutter lenses with the Hassy back via adapter.

For most scenarios keeping the Rodie XT lenses at F8-F11 might be perfect anyhow.

What a kickass combo it can be if you have an IQ4A and Hassy back with multi shot.

 

[usm]

Well I just realized that with the new Hassy back and IS we will actually get Multi Shot with Hasselblad Colours

Would be great but who knows?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Would be great but who knows?

Well they have the know-how from the 400-MS ... so it would be an absolute killer move to release:

+ IS for hand-held with Alpa TC / Hassy V (needs fast read-out, so TBD)
+ Multi-shoot 400 megapixels
+ True colour repro mode
+ 1TB internal storage
+ Hasselblad HNCS colour science

In that case the new Hassy back would definitely be a game changer for the tech cam market which has been suffering from the high price point of the IQ4 series.

Ie this is going to sell Alpas et al. again.

If then the tech cam manufacturers provide a bridge to the Fuji lens ecosystem we are golden.

If Arca's Pico can drive Blue Ring lenses all of a sudden you have two absolute killer TS lenses from Phase One directly with the SK 35, 45! So SK TS lenses, effectively!

I couldn't be more exited actually to be an owner of an Alpa or Arca now!

 

[Pieter 12]

All this hoo-ha about a new Hasselblad back. Who makes it, Fuji? Hasselblad certainly doesn't.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

DJI makes it in China.

 

[Pieter 12]

DJI makes it in China.

I was not aware that DJI made digital backs.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

DJI bought Hasselblad a few years ago. Hasselblad is now run out of China. They will present the new back in Hong Kong in two weeks.

DJI has the capabilities and R&D power to produce a new digital back with IS, multi-shot, etc.

 

[Pieter 12]

DJI bought Hasselblad a few years ago. Hasselblad is now run out of China. They will present the new back in Hong Kong in two weeks.

DJI has the capabilities and R&D power to produce a new digital back with IS, multi-shot, etc.

But they currently don't make any, for Hasselblad or anyone else, right?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

DJI has been owner of Hasselblad for some years ... and DJI, jointly with the old Hasselblad team in Sweden, has been involved in all recent products ...

 

[Pieter 12]

DJI has been owner of Hasselblad for some years ... and DJI, jointly with the old Hasselblad team in Sweden, has been involved in all recent products ...

It is interesting to note that I cannot find any evidence that DJI has produced any digital backs for any camera, yet you are quite sure the will be making the one that is currently rumored. I obviously don't have access to the back channels you seem to have, but I would be wary of a first-generation digital back from a company with no history of making anything similar. Who has made Hasselblad's digital backs and cameras up to this point?

 

[TechTalk]

I've seen this movie before. Think I'll go elsewhere and listen to music online instead of wasting time on this again.