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EOS R5 Announcement

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Do you not think that the L-Mount lenses are every bit as good optically if not better than the Canon RF lenses? That’s what I was specifically speaking about.

We can all say that DFD is BS but there was a time people said that about Mirrorless in general. Now we are here 10-15 years later and everyone has jumped onto Mirrorless. People didn’t understand the big deal about dual pixel or Sony Hybrid focus until now when everyone wants their brand of choice to incorporate their own proprietary version of it. Maybe Panasonic won’t succeed but I happen to think they will. There are absolutely tangible benefits to not having PDAF focus sites robbing the sensor of light and resolution. I sincerely hopes Panasonic (and L-Mount Alliance by association) succeed in developing this technology because it does mean real improvements to image quality, color retention, and lowlight performance. There is a processing bottleneck and algorithms is refine but ultimately the system is good enough in still photography today that the differences are minimal (unless you’re talking about extreme AF cases like the A9). If we aren’t comparing the A9 to the Panasonic/Leica cameras the differences in performance aren’t as great as your making out and it’s coming from a person that does still shoot Sony, uses their professional services, and has used every current camera in some capacity except the A9II.

Now as far as the Canon... I truly do hope they’re back on the innovation train. I was hoping they were 2 years ago when they introduced the RF camera. I tried it out with the hopes that it would fit my needs but I found it to be the absolutely least comfortable of all Mirrorless cameras to hold onto. It also had a fully articulating screen (which I don’t want on my primary cameras) and I find the rear screen on the Panasonic S1/R (or Fuji cameras) to be perfect. Then there was the weird Touch Bar that’s thankfully gone now. All of theses added up to a deal breaker for me personally but I still thought they had something great because of their lens lineup. The lens choices are excellent but I didn’t like a single thing about the body. The 28-70/2 is a must have lens without a question. The 50/1.2 and 85/1.2 DS are as well. The 24-105/4 might be the best kit lens ever made... well until I tried the Panasonic. Optically the Canon is slightly better perhaps. The Panasonic is more versatile IMO though because it has limited focus breathing and a 1:2 macro capability. I feel like Nikon should’ve updated their 24-120/4 when they released the Z as their kit lens instead of the 24-70/4. I think it would’ve intrigued more people and tides them over until the f/2.8 and fast primes could be released.

Now with Canon, I do have what I feel is a reasonable fear that when the full spec sheet comes out they will hurt their position and the trust of the consumer because something may be crippled. I still see them as a company that plans strategically to get people to move into their Cinema EOS line for pro video. Maybe they’ll surprise us all but I’m waiting on “the catch” to this announcement now that some of the Shock has worn off.

Call me cautiously skeptical but holding onto some semblance of hope and optimism. I do feel like if we are all objective we can agree with this regarding Canon’s track record.
Only to clarify - I jumped on mirrorless already 10 years ago with Panasonic and Olympus - when almost nobody here in this forum and elsewhere was taking mirrorless serious. So you do speak to the wrong one if you think I was (and still am) not following new groundbreaking technologies already very early - maybe unfortunately ;)

WRT Panasonic - I would hope they can make their DOF tech work as it should - say competitive to Canon DP or Sony's latest incarnations - but I doubt. Is it fair to still doubt that after so many years not reaching (almost reaching) the final goal?

WRT Canon - absolutely agree that one has to be cautious but what we hear now from the rumours at least one can be excited again about Canon. This has 2 parts IMO - 1) cameras and their R5 promises to finally excel even WRT sensor performance but of course still needs to be seen and 2) the RF lenses they are all very well designed IMO and optically stellar - though pretty pricy.

WRT L mount glass versus RF glass - from all my lifelong experience I am pretty sure I would highly prefer the red ring RF lenses from Canon over any Sigma and Panasonic lens. Leica L mount is a different story but then for me the Leica part is dead mainly because of prices and also the limited Leica L mount lineup - I am more a zoom guy in the end and that RF 2/28-70 has absolutely no competition, as does the RF 2.8/70-200.

It is fire that you love and like Panasonic and I wish you all joy and satisfaction with that system, albeit for me after trying it at some events this is absolutely a no go for me.

Can we just keep it that way - if Canon really excels with their R5 and ticks almost all boxes for me and Nikon does not bring the equivalent (which is not as easy as their S lens lineup is not what I am really lusting for - their new 2.8/70-200 looks absolutely no go for me for example) then I might very well jump into Canon FF with 1 or 2 or 3 RF lenses and run that system in parallel to my Olympus Pro system, maybe based then on the mediocre EM1.3 :)

And you keep enjoying your Sony and Panasonic systems as well :cool:;):cool:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
8k isn’t as hard as it once was. A lot comes down to the wrapper it’s packaged in and whether Canon (or whomever) works directly with NLE makers to efficiently process the data. People with Mac Pro’s, newer Radeon Navi GPU’s, or Apple T2 chips inside are already ahead of the game as they can all decode h.264 or h.265 more easily. They same can be said for Windows users that use similar platforms.
With the best video editing software available, and Adobe Premiere is unfortunately one of them when it comes to processing speed, a strong GPU seems to be the most important component of the computer.

I was not thinking about editing though, but the processing capacity within the camera. This has always been a challenge with mirrorless, and as display and video resolution as well as demands for more accurate and faster AF develops, it seems to remain a challenge, even with faster processors being developed.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
With the best video editing software available, and Adobe Premiere is unfortunately one of them when it comes to processing speed, a strong GPU seems to be the most important component of the computer.

I was not thinking about editing though, but the processing capacity within the camera. This has always been a challenge with mirrorless, and as display and video resolution as well as demands for more accurate and faster AF develops, it seems to remain a challenge, even with faster processors being developed.
Well I was thinking of both processing in camera and in PP. Adobe is notorious for not optimizing quickly to the newest cameras. Apple and Blackmagic do a better job (in general) with FCPX and Davinci Resolve. 8K cinema cameras have been around for some time though and while cooling may be an issue we did see Sharp also reveal their 8k MFT camera a little while ago too. So my guess is that with an efficient codec and a powerful yet efficient microprocessor 8k should be doable in more Mirrorless cameras soon.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Only to clarify - I jumped on mirrorless already 10 years ago with Panasonic and Olympus - when almost nobody here in this forum and elsewhere was taking mirrorless serious. So you do speak to the wrong one if you think I was (and still am) not following new groundbreaking technologies already very early - maybe unfortunately ;)

WRT Panasonic - I would hope they can make their DOF tech work as it should - say competitive to Canon DP or Sony's latest incarnations - but I doubt. Is it fair to still doubt that after so many years not reaching (almost reaching) the final goal?

WRT Canon - absolutely agree that one has to be cautious but what we hear now from the rumours at least one can be excited again about Canon. This has 2 parts IMO - 1) cameras and their R5 promises to finally excel even WRT sensor performance but of course still needs to be seen and 2) the RF lenses they are all very well designed IMO and optically stellar - though pretty pricy.

WRT L mount glass versus RF glass - from all my lifelong experience I am pretty sure I would highly prefer the red ring RF lenses from Canon over any Sigma and Panasonic lens. Leica L mount is a different story but then for me the Leica part is dead mainly because of prices and also the limited Leica L mount lineup - I am more a zoom guy in the end and that RF 2/28-70 has absolutely no competition, as does the RF 2.8/70-200.

It is fire that you love and like Panasonic and I wish you all joy and satisfaction with that system, albeit for me after trying it at some events this is absolutely a no go for me.

Can we just keep it that way - if Canon really excels with their R5 and ticks almost all boxes for me and Nikon does not bring the equivalent (which is not as easy as their S lens lineup is not what I am really lusting for - their new 2.8/70-200 looks absolutely no go for me for example) then I might very well jump into Canon FF with 1 or 2 or 3 RF lenses and run that system in parallel to my Olympus Pro system, maybe based then on the mediocre EM1.3 :)

And you keep enjoying your Sony and Panasonic systems as well :cool:;):cool:
I think you’re misunderstanding me and some of my rhetorical statements. Fair enough. No need to beat a dead horse but I do fear that you’re waiting on a mythical “perfect camera” that’ll solve all your desires. I’ve accepted that it won’t come and it’s best to choose the best available then move on when it no longer works for you. As good as the RF lenses are only a few are unique IMO and the rest are on the level in one shape or another with their counterparts. I don’t believe the RF 70-200/2.8 is all that different optically from the Sigma, Panasonic, Sony, Nikon, etc. it’s a great lens for sure but most of the modern ones are.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I think you’re misunderstanding me and some of my rhetorical statements. Fair enough. No need to beat a dead horse but I do fear that you’re waiting on a mythical “perfect camera” that’ll solve all your desires. I’ve accepted that it won’t come and it’s best to choose the best available then move on when it no longer works for you. As good as the RF lenses are only a few are unique IMO and the rest are on the level in one shape or another with their counterparts. I don’t believe the RF 70-200/2.8 is all that different optically from the Sigma, Panasonic, Sony, Nikon, etc. it’s a great lens for sure but most of the modern ones are.
The RF 2.8/70-200 is the smallest and lightest from all the others and this alone is a killing argument for me. And from what I have seen from reviews it is also on the sharpest side so far.

What is not to like?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The RF 2.8/70-200 is the smallest and lightest from all the others and this alone is a killing argument for me. And from what I have seen from reviews it is also on the sharpest side so far.

What is not to like?
Well we can agree to disagree on it being appreciably sharper than the other lenses. I’m not seeing a big difference in the results between it and the competition. Is it lighter? Well yes, by up to a pound or less. Not a big deal to me personally but for some I understand that’ll matter. If I’m using a telephoto zoom I expect some weight.

Again this isn’t to disparage the Canon. There is great glass there. I just am not sure that it’s entirely better across the board than the competition when compared to the best of the other brands. They’re more or less within the same realm as one another IMO. There are some unique halo pieces like the 28-70/2 but I think similar lenses will begin coming from the competition in time as well. Good on Canon for not just sticking to legacy SLR focal lengths. I love that they’ve gone against the grain in some ways finally. I celebrate that about them. I just can’t reasonably go to hyperbolic levels on their behalf personally.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I for myself am very happy that Canon is showing to move in the right direction - camera bodies as well as lenses. I always liked Canon, especially their colours, although I shot most time Nikon, Sony and sometimes Leica FF mirrorless. Nikon colours never appealed that much to me, Sony was better overall, Leica just marvellous but simply too expensive and kind of restricted as well, but Canon simply nailed it for me.

I was very happy when shooting my 5D2 with the 1.2/85 EF and I have never found so much satisfaction from another camera lens combo. Now my hopes are high that the upcoming R5 will be what I expect (40-45MP, great DR, great AF, great storage and great operability) and then I would just be a happy camper for the future in Canon mirrorless FF land with the RF 1.2/85 and maybe one or two other RF lenses - most likely the 15-35 and the 70-200. And I most likely will keep my m43 gear as well because used prices are just too low to sell this.

At least there is hope :thumbs:
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
I for myself am very happy that Canon is showing to move in the right direction - camera bodies as well as lenses. I always liked Canon, especially their colours, although I shot most time Nikon, Sony and sometimes Leica FF mirrorless. Nikon colours never appealed that much to me, Sony was better overall, Leica just marvellous but simply too expensive and kind of restricted as well, but Canon simply nailed it for me.

I was very happy when shooting my 5D2 with the 1.2/85 EF and I have never found so much satisfaction from another camera lens combo. Now my hopes are high that the upcoming R5 will be what I expect (40-45MP, great DR, great AF, great storage and great operability) and then I would just be a happy camper for the future in Canon mirrorless FF land with the RF 1.2/85 and maybe one or two other RF lenses - most likely the 15-35 and the 70-200. And I most likely will keep my m43 gear as well because used prices are just too low to sell this.

At least there is hope :thumbs:
I agree. My first digital camera was a Canon 10D, a 6MP CMOS camera that took absolutely beautiful photos! I was a newbie and didn't do any editing, but the colors straight OOC were sublime! Portraits had a richness and depth with incredible detail. I guess those could be considered "fat pixel" sensors.
I was then convinced as planned obsolescence was firmly ensconced in the industry, that more MP's was needed for good photographs. That was a mistake, imo. I switched to Nikon, but always found the colors to lean towards a green hue, but that improved a bit and the Nikon Z7 seemed more natural. I'm now looking towards Canon's EOS R(5), for the RF 85mm 1.2. The idea is to buy the EOSR now and keep it as a back up to the EOSR5.
 

compasiune11

New member
If it's a R5, then it's likely to be a 5D replacement/compliment so it should have dual slots which has dual slots since the 5D III. It'll be interesting to see if they use CFexpress card slots to handle the high-res sensor to fit in with the 1Dx III. Since the 5D Mk III it's been a cut down 1Dx in functionality.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Updates to some of the R5 specs. Looks impressive on paper still. Seems like there won't be a crop but I'm interested in what the record times will be on the video. I'd guess there would be a 5-10 minute limit of 8K and 15-20 minute limit on the high speed recording modes on 4K. I'd expect normal 24-30 fps modes to record without a limit or with 30 minute limits at the maximum. It's interesting that they haven't spoken much about the photo side of things yet and that everything has been centered around the hybrid video side of things. I suspect that's because of how viral a YouTube or Vimeo video can go in a relatively short period of time. I'm curious about their processor and how they solved their cooling issues as the body seems to be pretty close in size to the EOS R.

Anyway it looks like a much better camera in every way compared to the EOS R and I'm hoping that it can live up to the premium lens lineup they've released so far. I'm fully expecting that this camera will be $4k USD at a minimum and I would not be surprised to see it priced in the $5-7K range based on the spec sheet. This could be a tre flagship hybrid mirrorless camera for Canon and it's would make sense to price it as such. The EOS R can fall into the value option in the $1200-1800 range and an updated camera can be slotted between the R5 and the R. I think that would be a very fair price and they can easily release a R6 without the 8K, replacing the CFExpress for dual UHS-II slots, and eliminating RAW (but retaining the 4K120) in the $2500-3500 price range. I think that would be more than enough for the wedding/event photo community that may need more "sensible" video specs while retaining all of the positives.

So it looks like Canon is listening to the feedback and are turning over a new leaf. It'll be interesting to see what all of the other players do to respond. Sony has been quiet the last couple of years with incremental updates. Nikon is likely working on a high end mirrorless. Panasonic/Leica/Sigma are further developing their cameras. Fuji is rumored to take the XH line further upmarket and expand the GFX line. Canon has kind of shot a warning shot across the hybrid market but also across the cinema camera market. The C300mkIII announcement was completely overshadowed and frankly I was surprised to see that it retained the EF mount. I really assumed that we'd see an RF mount on the camera and that it would have an EF mount adapter with the variable ND filter included in the box.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/25005...k-30-4k-120-with-raw-10-bit-h-265-and-full-af
 

jduncan

Member
Interesting, but looks too big for me, more like a DSLR.
And for a stills photographer it doesn't offer much new in comparison what's already on the market from Nikon/Sony/Panasonic.
Any idea on the price?
Do we know that?
Also if it matches Sony and Nikon as a photo tool but it's the best for video it's going to sale like hotcakes and that will give them the money to continue investing and staying in the lead.

Best regards,
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Do we know that?
Do we know what?

I know it's too big for me, but that's personal.

I can't see aspects for stills photography where it's better than the other competing brands that are already on the market, but maybe you do?

If you're into mirrorless video it's an attractive camera that might offer more than the competition, but it matters where you're coming from if jumping ship is an attractive option and a big enough upgrade. In general jumping ship is expensive and then a few month later the competition comes out with another even better improvement and you regret not having waited. My personal belief is that it's usually more economical to stay with what you have and not get lured into always wanting the latest and very best, because that's a quickly moving target.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Do we know what?

I know it's too big for me, but that's personal.

I can't see aspects for stills photography where it's better than the other competing brands that are already on the market, but maybe you do?

If you're into mirrorless video it's an attractive camera that might offer more than the competition, but it matters where you're coming from if jumping ship is an attractive option and a big enough upgrade. In general jumping ship is expensive and then a few month later the competition comes out with another even better improvement and you regret not having waited. My personal belief is that it's usually more economical to stay with what you have and not get lured into always wanting the latest and very best, because that's a quickly moving target.
Size wise it’s supposed to be about the same size as the EOS R. I didn’t find that it was too big but I found the grip of the EOS R to be the most uncomfortable of all FF mirrorless cameras personally. This was due to the inside of grip being straight without any contour to it. I also don’t like fully articulating screens (though I’d take one over a fixed screen if forced to choose) and I greatly prefer tilting screens that remain on axis with the camera mount/lenses.

100% these are subjective viewpoints though

I don’t believe that most can deny that the R5 looks promising on paper (from what we know) but I’d guess photo spec wise it’ll be in line with other high megapixel cameras (so 40+ megapixels, 12fps mechanical, rolling shutter issues with electronic shutter, probably decent to usable high ISO up to 25,600-51,200 range, improved AF/Eye-AF, etc.) I suspect that people will come around to liking features like Eye AF and see how it can be invaluable when you have a camera that you can trust it to perform on. I don’t think it’ll offer anything ground breaking photo wise but as I’ve said I’m happy they’re making a body worthy of the lenses they’ve introduced. If I was truly interested in this body I’d get the 28-70/2, 50/1.2, 85/1.2 DS, and the 135/2 once it’s released... though it’s rumored that a 70-150/2 is in the works I believe.

.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Size wise it’s supposed to be about the same size as the EOS R. I didn’t find that it was too big but I found the grip of the EOS R to be the most uncomfortable of all FF mirrorless cameras personally. This was due to the inside of grip being straight without any contour to it. I also don’t like fully articulating screens (though I’d take one over a fixed screen if forced to choose) and I greatly prefer tilting screens that remain on axis with the camera mount/lenses.

100% these are subjective viewpoints though

I don’t believe that most can deny that the R5 looks promising on paper (from what we know) but I’d guess photo spec wise it’ll be in line with other high megapixel cameras (so 40+ megapixels, 12fps mechanical, rolling shutter issues with electronic shutter, probably decent to usable high ISO up to 25,600-51,200 range, improved AF/Eye-AF, etc.) I suspect that people will come around to liking features like Eye AF and see how it can be invaluable when you have a camera that you can trust it to perform on. I don’t think it’ll offer anything ground breaking photo wise but as I’ve said I’m happy they’re making a body worthy of the lenses they’ve introduced. If I was truly interested in this body I’d get the 28-70/2, 50/1.2, 85/1.2 DS, and the 135/2 once it’s released... though it’s rumored that a 70-150/2 is in the works I believe.

.
It is an intriguing camera and system,. Not sure if I will ever buy this camera (be able to spend the money) but if I would enter the RF system the Canon EOS R5 would be the camera to go. And the 2.8/15-35, 2.8/70-200, the 2/28-70, 1,2/50, 1.2/85 and a 100-400 as soon as it comes available.

Who knows what will happen so one can still dream :cool:;):thumbup:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
It is an intriguing camera and system,. Not sure if I will ever buy this camera (be able to spend the money) but if I would enter the RF system the Canon EOS R5 would be the camera to go. And the 2.8/15-35, 2.8/70-200, the 2/28-70, 1,2/50, 1.2/85 and a 100-400 as soon as it comes available.

Who knows what will happen so one can still dream :cool:;):thumbup:
I’m sure if you sell your Leica M lenses and your DSLR stuff off you’ll have the bulk of your kit covered. You can have your Olympus for travel and your Canon for everything else.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Full preview rundown of the R5 and R6 plus newly announced lenses and printer. Probably the most exciting cameras that Canon has introduced (IMO) since the 5DmkII or 1Dx. Finally there are bodies that can live up to their excellent RF lenses. The 600 and 800 lenses seem to be pretty interesting at their price point for someone that wants telephoto ability but isn’t committed enough to invest 5 figures into achieving those desires... They even undercut Micro 4/3 with price for focal length. So I guess we can ease on the doubting of Canon’s desire to innovate for now. I guess they received the feedback and acted accordingly. Interested in seeing how/if Sony, Nikon, and L-Mount Alliance will respond.

https://youtu.be/mhfQHFfjmMY
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Announcement is today! I am curious about the price...
The announcement already happened at 8AM EST. These are along the lines of what I hoped Canon would introduce a couple years ago. Better late than never though and I hope to get my hands on both of these at some point soon. Not looking to switch but I’m interested in them from a technical standpoint nonetheless. I do REALLY like that 28-70/2 lens and the 85/1.2 is nice too even though it’s not my favorite portrait focal length (100mm is) but I can see that the system is coming together for those interested in professional content creation but it photography, video, cinematography, etc.

I’m really surprised their newest Cinema EOS cameras didn’t go RF mount (like the RED Komodo) because that will really be disruptive IMO once it becomes more mainstream.

R5 - $3900 body only/ $5000 in a kit with 24-105/4
R6 - $2500 body only/ $2800 in kit with consumer grade 24-105 variable aperture/ $3600 in kit with 24-105/4
 
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