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Fuji X trans IQ and Olympus OMD IQ

ptomsu

Workshop Member
After several months of shooting Fuji X Pro 1 I finally sold this system. Simply because speed and AF accuracy is not up to what I am looking for. So I cannot use it for my purposes.

Instead the OMD performs solid and good. Looking forward to the new EM1, as it should top the OMD in IQ and speed and accuracy.

Plus the form factor of the m43 lenses is just so much more appealing than the Fuji X lenses.

This decision has NOTHING to do with IQ from either camera, as I found both great!
 
I love my K5, too. I have owned quite a range of SLRs over the years (E10, D100, 14n, 340D, 450D, 5D, D50, SD9, SD14, S5pro) and while they all have likeable attributes, for me the K5 seems to incorporate everything in one camera. Difficult to see myself changing it, it's all I want in a SLR.

But, compact as it is, it's still a bulky SLR and I'm mainly using mirrorless these days. XE1 due to arrive shortly.

Been thinking about one since they launched but have read so many complaints and negative comments that coupled with the relatively high price had put me off. To my surprise, last thursday I found a new camera shop had just opened near me and they had an XE1 available for playing with. I knew I was going to get one withing seconds of picking it up. Like the K5, it just felt right, almost molded to my hand in a way that various Panys and NEX fail to do. I think it's because the K5 and XE1 share the feeling of being cameras rather than electronic gizmos. Most digitals have lost that feeling, IMO.

I expect notable improvements with all the primes. The kit zoom improved, but not as much from where it was, since it was faster to begin with. The big win really is % of locks vs non locks. And accuracy. When it lock, it locks (though accuracy per se before was still pretty good).



I will still give the nod to the Olympus in speed. It's just that the Fuji has become quite acceptable for many situations imho. I did some street life just last night to prove whether it was a notable difference (XF35 1.4) and it was.

Also the OMD focus lock is not always accurate. That was pointed out by a friend that had the EM-5 and has the FUji now, and myself, when I tried it. But to be fair the situation where it failed to lock I put it in was not easy.



I think the Fuji is pretty good but more because of the lens. But the K5IIs to me will have the best IQ overall. The K5IIS has 14 bit RAW files (so better tonality unless you have the X100s which also has 14 bit raws), and the DR is still the best of APS_C. The Fuji has the advantage of being more resistant to the color moire, but to me the Pentax K-5 line is the best DSLR I have seen, and if you want a DSLR that's it.

I would like if Pentax did new K-mount ASPC primes that were faster. There's some selection but would be nice to have a 40-54 equivalent at F1.4/F1.2. That combined with the super high ISO capability of a K-5 would be quite a tour de force.

The only reason I am going to most likely sell my K-5 is simply that I am not carrying it (as small as it is for a DSLR). I really think it's the best DSLR I have ever had. I will still recommend it highly for anyone looking for a DSLR.

- Ricardo
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
I love my K5, too. I have owned quite a range of SLRs over the years (E10, D100, 14n, 340D, 450D, 5D, D50, SD9, SD14, S5pro) and while they all have likeable attributes, for me the K5 seems to incorporate everything in one camera. Difficult to see myself changing it, it's all I want in a SLR.

But, compact as it is, it's still a bulky SLR and I'm mainly using mirrorless these days. XE1 due to arrive shortly.

Been thinking about one since they launched but have read so many complaints and negative comments that coupled with the relatively high price had put me off. To my surprise, last thursday I found a new camera shop had just opened near me and they had an XE1 available for playing with. I knew I was going to get one withing seconds of picking it up. Like the K5, it just felt right, almost molded to my hand in a way that various Panys and NEX fail to do. I think it's because the K5 and XE1 share the feeling of being cameras rather than electronic gizmos. Most digitals have lost that feeling, IMO.
For the record, though I continue to use it occasionally (last night in fact) I still feel the autofocus speed on the Fuji X-E1 is its worst feature. :deadhorse: Followed very closely by video capability in the race to the bottom of the feature heap.

I'm speculating Fuji product management may have gotten caught up drinking their own "rangefinder like experience" kool-aid. Fooling themselves into believing our world would shun autofocus in favor of "retro" manual focus. Most of us who bought in haven't. Many who bought in have now sold out and moved on to greener pastures that can at least land a decent kid shot. The market is more competitive today than at any point in history I can remember. There are a lot of very good cameras to choose from.

Even with the firmware updates that have helped many, they haven't pulled my X-E1 up much past the "autofocus sucks" point for my uses. I still rank it abysmal for documenting low light live events. Any camera that takes over a second to "land and lock" in today's day and age is positively embarrassing. Judging by the recent price drops, Fuji must agree. Is Fuji clearing out inventory to make room for the X-E2 & XPro-2? One/both almost certain to make an appearance here shortly is my prediction.

I have very high hopes for what the next generation top of the Fuji lineup will have to offer. Fuji aren't dummies, they read the tea leaves right along with the rest. Looks like they nailed the autofocus with the X100s, from all reports. Nail that gapping hole closed with the XPro-2, and I am likely to stay in the fold. So are many other people. The Fuji lenses are all excellent, and reasonably priced as top quality autofocus glass goes today. Of course, having the option to use my "aged" ;) Leica & Zeiss glass collection is a must, but there I do not mind being limited to only manual focus.

Now that the new Leica M 240 is starting to slowly ship, the price for a used M8 has fallen again. Nearly to the range of a new Fuji body. I would be a liar if I didn't admit to being tempted. But I sure would miss the dynamic range and high ISO capability of the X-E1.
 

4711

New member
...

Now that the new Leica M 240 is starting to slowly ship, the price for a used M8 has fallen again. Nearly to the range of a new Fuji body. I would be a liar if I didn't admit to being tempted. But I sure would miss the dynamic range and high ISO capability of the X-E1.
Hi,

could you please describe in which area the Leica M8 is better in IQ than the XPro or XE1?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Hi,

could you please describe in which area the Leica M8 is better in IQ than the XPro or XE1?
Having shot a M8 for years and a XPro1 for the last 8 months, I only can assure that IQ wise at least below ISO 800 I clearly preferred the M8.

Actually I bought the XPro1 because of all the hype on the Internet about the Fuji IQ and AF. IQ wise I answered already earlier. And the AF is AF, but in comparison to several other AF's on the market it is pretty useless, especially when photographing kids - I cannot remember about such a high miss rate of images because of AF with any other camera.

Finally, while a number of folks praise Fuji for their continuous FW updates, this is just showing rather the weakness of the complete system, as all the updates IMHO did not really improve the overall camera behavior, especially AF accuracy in low light and speed.

For me problem solved and X system sold ....
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
Hi,

could you please describe in which area the Leica M8 is better in IQ than the XPro or XE1?
Strictly limiting the judgement criteria to scientific measurement, all of the Fuji X-Trans CMOS sensor equipped cameras are probably better when you look at any of the numbers. X-Trans sensor technology is several years more advanced than the Kodak KAF-10500 CCD they designed into the M8 back in 2004/2005. In digital electronics terms, five years is lightyears when it comes to R&D advancements.

My temptation has more to do with artistic look and camera feel. I've used a Leica M since film days, so nothing feels as good in my hand as an M. Leica M's are simple, silent, stealthy, superbly crafted and spectacular at getting out of my way so I can focus on my subject, not my camera's settings. I miss that basic simplicity when I shoot anything else.

The M8 doesn't speak low light ambient though, where my X-E1 is fluent up to ISO 3200 and still strong even at 6400 with some noise reduction in post processing. The significant five or possibly six stop X-E1 advantage is huge.

Curious to test a thought of picking up an M8 to use purely as a B&W only still camera, I did a quick test two nights ago with my X-E1 that proved once and for all going back to an ISO limit of 1600 isn't going to work for me. I've got to have enough good quality ISO to hold 1/50th second or better. I also want a body with good video, so the M8 sadly is not a contender for my bag anymore.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
My temptation has more to do with artistic look and camera feel. I've used a Leica M since film days, so nothing feels as good in my hand as an M. Leica M's are simple, silent, stealthy, superbly crafted and spectacular at getting out of my way so I can focus on my subject, not my camera's settings. I miss that basic simplicity when I shoot anything else.
Exactly my point!

I wanted to get the same out of the XPro1 WRT simple, stealthy etc, plus have the advantages of a much more advanced sensor design.

Bad luck, this did absolutely not work out from the simplicity and stealth perspective. And even worse AF just could not hold up as well.
 

retow

Member
Neither AF nor MF/ZF are up to the standard they should be. And on top of it come a very noticeable shutter lag and a way to slow EVF refresh rate (lag and freeze of what seems to be an eternity). I will sell the two Fuji bodies and all prime lenses I have and keep the zoom for the time being. Maybe the next generation of a X-Pro will not be at beta stage when released.
 

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
Well, selling the body while there is still some value in it may be a wise move, but now that they have dropped the new price to clear old stock it is probably not going to bring what it should.

But for now I am going to be keeping the lenses. I have a hunch that the X-E2 is probably going to raise the bar in even more ways. Heck, maybe they can even manage a little better video? I have a hard time deciding which sucks less, video from an X-Tran Fuji body or video from the new Leica M. They are both so equally bad, it is hard to get past the rolling shutter problems to even judge something like color!
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
just took the X-Pro out and 55-200 out to the paint pall field. I have shot the OM-D in this setting quite a bit with the 14-140, and must say, I forgot how much subject isolation does change an image .....

In round numbers, the Panasonic 2.8 zooms are needed to get the same "feel" as the 55-200.

Yeah, the focusing was was slower, but with a bit of work, I did get a nice set of images. Will post later.

Dave
 

doc4x5

Member
So much depends on one's photographic style. I sold my OMD and kept my X E-1 with a bunch of lenses. Even the zoom has astounding IQ. I tend to shoot lots of static subjects in nature, not sports or small fast moving children. The AF issues can be a pain, especially with the 60 f/2.4, but the other primes focus reasonably well. I'm really looking forward to the 23 f/1.4 and the 56 f/1.2. With those, the 14, and 35, one has most of what one needs, speed, versatility, handling. I still cannot decide on the 55-200, it seems so big, but then again, it's a 300mm equivalent and we all know how large that is on a full frame DSLR camera.
 

raist3d

Active member
Having shot a M8 for years and a XPro1 for the last 8

Finally, while a number of folks praise Fuji for their continuous FW updates, this is just showing rather the weakness of the complete system, as all the updates IMHO did not really improve the overall camera behavior, especially AF accuracy in low light and speed.
I am not going to dispute the slower AF assessment but I am going to completely dispute this factually baseless claim. The firmware updates made a *night and day* difference in the operation of the Xpro 1. It made the manual focus from useless to usable, the AF from utterly slow to reasonably good (not good for your needs doesn't mean it s*cks now). AF accuracy in low light improved quite a bit (I do a lot of street night photography after all- in fact it's what I do the most).

And you can't dispute that adding focus peaking to a 2 years old model while someone like Olympus forces you to buy a new model can't be a blessing for firmware upgrades. Every single reviewer has praised Fuji in this area. This is pretty factual- whether the improvement was enough for your needs it's another matter of course.

- Ricardo
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I am not going to dispute the slower AF assessment but I am going to completely dispute this factually baseless claim. The firmware updates made a *night and day* difference in the operation of the Xpro 1. It made the manual focus from useless to usable, the AF from utterly slow to reasonably good (not good for your needs doesn't mean it s*cks now). AF accuracy in low light improved quite a bit (I do a lot of street night photography after all- in fact it's what I do the most).

And you can't dispute that adding focus peaking to a 2 years old model while someone like Olympus forces you to buy a new model can't be a blessing for firmware upgrades. Every single reviewer has praised Fuji in this area. This is pretty factual- whether the improvement was enough for your needs it's another matter of course.

- Ricardo
Well Ricardo,

finally the improvements were not enough for me. And thus I stepped out of Fuji.

But I always said that Fuji X is a great camera system, just depends on the needs of the person using it.

Peter
 

raist3d

Active member
Well Ricardo,

finally the improvements were not enough for me. And thus I stepped out of Fuji.

But I always said that Fuji X is a great camera system, just depends on the needs of the person using it.

Peter
And I want to be clear- that is completely understandable. I am not disputing that in the end it wasn't a match for you even with the upgrades. What I dispute is that you expressed they (firmware) were effectively virtually useless, and that's just not true.

I can tell you right now I was getting sometimes some misses in situations that now the camera just locks (XF35 F1.4) and the ability to lock focus in lower light improved quite a bit. It's hard to see that as useless :)

- Ricardo
 

David Schneider

New member
Choice of a camera depends on your subject matter. For things that require fast focusing, like any kind of action, the Fuji XE1/XPro1 are not going to give you good results. For things that are not moving, in test I've done, particularly in-studio under controlled conditions, the Fuji equaled or exceeded my Canon 5dmk2 and several L lenses. While even still subjects don't focus as fast as the Canon, the rate of perfectly focused images was higher.

I haven't tested the Fuji against the OMD.

It's a pleasure to have a small form camera and lenses that produce quality files without the weight or cost of the latest dslr's.

But my dslr doesn't replace my medium format digital and my XE1 doesn't replace my dslr either for every kind of situation there is. The right tool for the right job.

That is tempered with age and experience though. Being older, having to carry a camera around for hours when on a trip, having the experience to understand the quirks and limitations of your gear does temper which system you use.
 

JSRockit

New member
The Fuji too desperately tries to be the better Leica rather than at beating competition in one or the other area.
Hmmm, I don't know about this. A combo EVF/OVF doesn't beat the competition? Fuji's lenses don't beat the competition? Fuji's ergonomics and dedicated shutter speed dial / aperture rings don't beat the competition? OR were you only talking about specs on paper?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
And I want to be clear- that is completely understandable. I am not disputing that in the end it wasn't a match for you even with the upgrades. What I dispute is that you expressed they (firmware) were effectively virtually useless, and that's just not true.

I can tell you right now I was getting sometimes some misses in situations that now the camera just locks (XF35 F1.4) and the ability to lock focus in lower light improved quite a bit. It's hard to see that as useless :)

- Ricardo
Absolutely agree. And one also needs to take into account that a Fuji with however AF, at least has AF and so it brings already a big advantage over a "just" manual focusable Leica M.

If I would not do a major number of images from my fast moving 2 year old daughter, I would have been quite happy with the AF speed of the XPro1. For any slow moving subject, even in low light, I had no problem with the Fuji AF. And so I would have stayed with the Fuji.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Well . . . . . I think that all these cameras (X, OMD, Leica, whatever your poison) produce fantastic images.

So that deciding on a camera these days on image quality is really odd - the image quality is always fine.

So you should decide on the camera that suits your style best; which offers you the options you need. more to the point, the camera that floats your boat and makes you happy to take photographs
 

JMaher

New member
So you should decide on the camera that suits your style best; which offers you the options you need. more to the point, the camera that floats your boat and makes you happy to take photographs
I don't think this could be said any better. I have owned two versions of the recent Fuji's a 4/3 and a few m4/3's and more recently the OM-D. All took great pictures but have good points and negatives FOR ME. Currently I own a Canon 5D3 and a Canon M. The 5D3 takes beautiful pictures and meet my needs for radio controlled ETTL flash as well as depth of field control for portraiture. However I love the weight and size of the m4/3 options and find myself drawn to the E-M1. I am trying to hold out:)

Jim
 

retow

Member
Hmmm, I don't know about this. A combo EVF/OVF doesn't beat the competition? Fuji's lenses don't beat the competition? Fuji's ergonomics and dedicated shutter speed dial / aperture rings don't beat the competition? OR were you only talking about specs on paper?
Based on specs, the Fuji is a winner. That you list specs only is telling enough. Go figure based on what facts my statement was made.
 
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