The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Future of Hassy- Bleak or Bright?

TechTalk

Active member
...And medium format, at least in film was 120/220 film, measures close to 6 cm in one direction... The fact that manufacturers are calling these small sensors "medium format" is all marketing talk...
Medium format film cameras, of conventional aspect ratios, ranged from 4 x 4 cm to 6 x 9 cm with a wide variety of formats in between. They were — and still are — referred to as "medium format" because they fell in between "small format" 24 x 36 mm cameras and larger sheet film formats. It really isn't very complicated.
 

Pieter 12

Member
It is my personal goal anytime someone mentions this to bring up the dicomed bigshot ;) 60mm by 60mm fairchild CCD.
Also is it not true 6x6 film is really 56mm by 56mm? I thought the 60/80Mp Dalsa CCDs made it to 53.9 at least, 2.1mm is very close!

Speaking of the S3, did they even make any of its sibling, the S30|45? I have never seen anyone here with one.
Sure, there were even scanning 4x5 backs. Just try to find one or have one serviced. There is no practical true MF size sensor out there right now. And actual image size of 120/220 film cameras varied a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer. 60mm being the film width, the image couldn't be that full size.
 

TechTalk

Active member
With all the rumors of an S4, I doubt there will be any more S3 production.
Further production is generally based on consumer demand, your doubts notwithstanding. Enough people going online to spread Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt about a product may have some influence on sales, but the impact in most cases is minimal.
 

Pieter 12

Member
Further production is generally based on consumer demand, your doubts notwithstanding. Enough people going online to spread Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt about a product may have some influence on sales, but the impact in most cases is minimal.
As wonderful a camera the S3 is, I don't think it is very much in demand. But I don't have access to or much interest in sales figures. Just judging by what I see pros using--they are the target market for MF digital. Sure, there are the wealthy who can and will buy whatever they want at whatever price, and Leica has done a very good job of promoting themselves as a luxury brand, but in the end there are many more Leica models with more bling factor for them to choose from.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
Leica Germany does not have it available, neither does Leica Switzerland or Leica in the Netherlands. In the U.S., Camera West does not have it, nor does Adorama. All appearance are of an item that is no longer in production although some retailers may have some bodies remaining in stock. The German website states: Dieser Artikel steht derzeit online nicht zur Verfügung. Gerne benachrichtigen wir Sie bei Verfügbarkeit per E-Mail. Google tranlate: This article is currently unavailable online. We will be happy to notify you by email when it is available.
They as I understand it have supply chain issues. They cannot get the sensors atm. Costs have gone significantly to order a new batch. Try ordering a smaller batch at Towerjazz these days (a few thousand is small); given semiconductor shortages everywhere there are just better paying customers with more urgent needs than a camera manufacturer who wants another run of their niche high-res sensor. Ie, good luck on price and timing. If you can get one feel lucky it is a really fantastic camera. They need to move to a mainstream sensor to avoid this supply issue in the future. Will be easier given know-how from M11 can now be adopted for the S4.

Formula probably is: Take the SL design, scale it bigger with tweaks, slap Sony's 100 MPX in it and then take the image pipeline from the M11 with further tweaks. See you in 2024.

Remember: in the pre-pandemic, pre-war world it was already a luxury to custom design your sensor. Now, it is a lot more difficult / expensive given market dynamics / inflation and better to just take the leading Sony stuff everyone uses. Arri can still do it, but they sell high margin cinema cameras (order 10 000 of their new sensor as supply for the next years), are market leading and keep the same design for a decade. More difficult for a MFD system in a highly competitive environment.
 
Last edited:

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
With all the rumors of an S4, I doubt there will be any more S3 production.
if the time span, between the announcement of the S3 and its release, is as big for the S4, i wouldnt worry too much.

leica is known for its batch production system, so maybe currently the S3 is not scheduled for some time, its not a mass production product anyway
 

SrMphoto

Active member
With all the rumors of an S4, I doubt there will be any more S3 production.
It does not seem like an S4 is coming soon (S. Daniel's interview):

A mirrorless S is actually a consequent evolution, and it's not that amazing that speculation is doing the rounds. Here's the fact: A mirrorless S is a work in progress, but it's difficult to predict anything further in the future. Today there are so many impasses with the procurement of materials, assemblies and electronic parts that we currently have no specific statement on the time of the next market launch of the S.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
I would say: 2023 is the year where we will see the SL3 with 60 MPX sensor + M11 Monochrom + new Q -> all going 60 MPX.

SL3 will focus even more on videography I'd assume with further learnings from cooperation with Panasonic flowing into the product spec sheet.

2024 or latest 2025 S4 with 100 MPX Sony sensor or higher resolution if there's another sensor available in the crop MFD size.

Would assume it is basically an SL3 enlarged with beefier specs - better DR, raw video, large battery, etc. and fully compatible with all Leica lenses. Would assume the launch with three new S lenses for the mirrorless era (say APO Summicron and one Summilux, all very compact vs. S lenses).

Finally would assume key determinant for launch window will be supply chain and priorities in the company for the money makers, ie depending on whether the launch of SL3 and the new Q are delayed or not.

I mean they clearly have production capacity constraints with the 35 APO M being still endlessly on backorder and the APO SL 24 / 21 not out yet ... and right now Stefan Daniel who is responsible for production will be focused on getting enough M's out of the doors ...
 
Last edited:

Pieter 12

Member
It does not seem like an S4 is coming soon (S. Daniel's interview):

A mirrorless S is actually a consequent evolution, and it's not that amazing that speculation is doing the rounds. Here's the fact: A mirrorless S is a work in progress, but it's difficult to predict anything further in the future. Today there are so many impasses with the procurement of materials, assemblies and electronic parts that we currently have no specific statement on the time of the next market launch of the S.
More reason to assume there will not be any more S3's.
 

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
There was literally no indication when it will come, i wouldnt hold my breath until release
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
It is clear that before the S4 will come we will have the SL3, M11M, Q3 ... and I'd suspect these are all Q1'-Q3'23 releases given they need to fill the demand for the M atm and because they typically don't want to steal the thunder of the M release. Which will leave the S team till 2024 to come up with a camera or even 2025.
 

TechTalk

Active member
More reason to assume there will not be any more S3's.
Not really.

You may be right, but if not, don't give up... keep assuming — because everything gets discontinued eventually. Not to mention, assuming and speculating are very popular online sports.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
That it is available is also my understanding, but I heard there are supply delays on the sensor side (unclear whether just low stock or waiting for an order at Towerjazz, etc.).

Really great camera, anyone who is interested should borrow it to see for themselves the IQ ... before getting it I borrowed it out for a weekend ...
 
Sure, there were even scanning 4x5 backs. Just try to find one or have one serviced. There is no practical true MF size sensor out there right now. And actual image size of 120/220 film cameras varied a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer. 60mm being the film width, the image couldn't be that full size.
Teledyne Dalsa has an industrial camera with a 64 x 48 mm 86MP monochrome sensor and global shutter: Falcon4-CLHS 86M
Current price is more than €62k. It has very limited dynamic range of just 56 dB. There previously were color and rolling shutter versions of this sensor.

-Dominique
 

Satrycon

Well-known member
the new leaked X2d pics are interesting, in the previous pics i saw, the camera had DJI in italics engraved on the Front, not Hasselblad.

body looks similar to the X1D
 
Top