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Future of Hassy- Bleak or Bright?

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tcdeveau

Well-known member
These pics?


it also shows a 38mm f2.8 XCD mounted on it which currently doesn’t exist AFAIK….new lenses would be nice too
 

jng

Well-known member
These pics?


it also shows a 38mm f2.8 XCD mounted on it which currently doesn’t exist AFAIK….new lenses would be nice too
Who knows. But if true, the 100 Mp X2D certainly spells trouble for me. Big, big trouble...

John

EDIT: looking a bit more closely at the recent images, there's some consistency between these and the image that was circulating a few months ago, e.g., the V system-style strap lugs and the engraving of "X2D 100C" on the hotshoe, minus the terrible Photoshop job (replaced by black tape).
 
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Paul Spinnler

Active member
From a tech cam user perspective:

The X2D will put Phase One in a difficult spot in the sense that for most people 100 MPX will be enough if there's a sensible technical camera solution for it. Ie via bellows or some other contraption to attach the X2D to a technical camera.

Only issue for technical camera users is that the X-shutter is phase one specific and for some instances (capturing of fast moving objects, flash) the X2D with a tech cam might not be as good as the Phase One solution (except if someone revives the e-shutter). This all assumes it s not a global shutter sensor they will be using.

There's a certain lock in effect now with the x-shutter in the Phase One world and I'd expect that they will respond with further exclusive stuff: lenses, workflow features with C1 mobile, etc.

So basically the landscape photog hobbyist will grab a Hassy 100 MPX X or back for 10k EUR and will be able to stick it onto an Arca, Cambo, Alpa body while Phase One sits atop with the 40k sensors and proprietary shutter tech. There's ofc also other cool stuff in Phase One land, eg the monochrome back.

I'd assume to keep market share they will need to be quite forthcoming during the next back upgrade cycle to keep the "stay at the party ticket" price at around 20k USD. In that scenario some pros might still opt to stay in the P1 world given they have access to upgrade pricing.

Meanwhile Leica is working on MDF mirrorless class leading optics which will expectedly be a cut above the rest. Problem - this seems to be a 2024 event ...

Interesting times!
 

TechTalk

Active member
George Harrison once saw a sign outside a church that read: "Gossip: The Devil's Radio...Don't Be a Broadcaster." The wording struck a chord with him and he wrote a song about gossip called Devil's Radio. The song appears on his 1987 album, which is a personal favorite, Cloud Nine.

There's an excellent live version of the song with George Harrison being backed by Eric Clapton. Enjoy!


This was before the World Wide Web arrived to spread gossip, rumor, and speculation to the undiscerning at lightning speed.
 
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tcdeveau

Well-known member
From a tech cam user perspective:

The X2D will put Phase One in a difficult spot in the sense that for most people 100 MPX will be enough if there's a sensible technical camera solution for it. Ie via bellows or some other contraption to attach the X2D to a technical camera.

Only issue for technical camera users is that the X-shutter is phase one specific and for some instances (capturing of fast moving objects, flash) the X2D with a tech cam might not be as good as the Phase One solution (except if someone revives the e-shutter). This all assumes it s not a global shutter sensor they will be using.

There's a certain lock in effect now with the x-shutter in the Phase One world and I'd expect that they will respond with further exclusive stuff: lenses, workflow features with C1 mobile, etc.

So basically the landscape photog hobbyist will grab a Hassy 100 MPX X or back for 10k EUR and will be able to stick it onto an Arca, Cambo, Alpa body while Phase One sits atop with the 40k sensors and proprietary shutter tech. There's ofc also other cool stuff in Phase One land, eg the monochrome back.

I'd assume to keep market share they will need to be quite forthcoming during the next back upgrade cycle to keep the "stay at the party ticket" price at around 20k USD. In that scenario some pros might still opt to stay in the P1 world given they have access to upgrade pricing.

Meanwhile Leica is working on MDF mirrorless class leading optics which will expectedly be a cut above the rest. Problem - this seems to be a 2024 event ...

Interesting times!
there are already several solutions to mount the X1D to a tech cam. Alpa, for example, has the HXD adapter that allows one to mount iton an Alpa 12 body….there are limitations though and SB17 lenses don’t reach infinity focus.

As a tech cam user myself, the better solution would be for Hasselblad to come out with a CFVIII 100c
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
there are already several solutions to mount the X1D to a tech cam. Alpa, for example, has the HXD adapter that allows one to mount iton an Alpa 12 body….there are limitations though and SB17 lenses don’t reach infinity focus.

As a tech cam user myself, the better solution would be for Hasselblad to come out with a CFVIII 100c
George Harrison once saw a sign outside a church that read: "Gossip: The Devil's Radio...Don't Be a Broadcaster." The wording struck a chord with him and he wrote a song about gossip called Devil's Radio. The song appears on his 1987 album, which is a personal favorite, Cloud Nine.

There's an excellent live version of the song with George Harrison being backed by Eric Clapton. Enjoy!


This was before the World Wide Web arrived to spread gossip, rumor, and speculation to the undiscerning at lightning speed.
Again, what's your point TechTalk?

You seemingly have copious amounts of extra time to comment on how others comment and seemingly are on a crusade to "school" the forum with your "technical talk"?

It is the point of a forum to discuss industry developments, which includes "gossip" as you call it, but which may as be informed views (believe it or not, who knows?); it is a small industry and many here have been clients of the brands here for many years knowing the protagonists - it is not that difficult to know what's going on if you know the people, talk to them at trade shows, company events. etc. so I find sarcastic posts devalue the quality of the forum.

In my view, the point here is that, and this thread established this further (thanks for the contributions!), evidence is mounting that the next X system camera indeed is imminent and that it will have 100 megapixels, most likely. This has implications on Phase One which in my view are pretty clear on the table and worth discussing, at least this is a bit the point in this thread in this niche MFD focused forum. It is a strong move from Hasselblad which puts the company well in the "bright" category going from this thread's title.

Why does it have such strong implications if they go from 50 to 100 megapixels in digital back format? Because DJI controls Hasselblad, runs it probably very efficiently so that they will likely be able to bring a 100 MPX sony based CMOS digital back to the market at a price point of EUR10k - which impacts the position of Phase One which sits at a level 4x / 5x as high price-wise ... and some folks will ask themselves whether the step up to 150 megapixels is really worth it. It is something else to stick a Fuji (it is a bit of Franken setup) onto a technical bellows camera than to have a compact CVFiii which fits the Alpa, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Linhof technical camera mounts for such a price point. Such a price breaker should be discussed and I wouldn't be surprised if we see special bundles for these systems. On top you have Hassy's HNCS on the colour side which is nice.

But, to end on a similar kind of note like you tend to do, commenting from the sideline sarcastically seemingly is something that was and is prevalent before and after the internet "arrived to spread gossip and rumor" (like these old men here):


CleanShot 2022-06-08 at 02.08.37@2x.jpg
 
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Paul Spinnler

Active member
there are already several solutions to mount the X1D to a tech cam. Alpa, for example, has the HXD adapter that allows one to mount iton an Alpa 12 body….there are limitations though and SB17 lenses don’t reach infinity focus.

As a tech cam user myself, the better solution would be for Hasselblad to come out with a CFVIII 100c
Yes, I was aware of this and my point was more that if they bring out the new X system soon (and suppose the CFVIII thereafter or in parallel) we might see some enticing packages for entry into digital tech cam photography, especially with the digital back version.

It is one thing to pay 70k for an XT system than to pay say c. 22k for a 100 megapixel CFVIII 100c + small Cambo + 70 HR ... that's why I mean it puts Phase One in a tricky position (because it seems like they just want to stay in the premium price bracket and not go down to the lower end segment like Hasselblad did) and I am curious to see how they will further try distinguish their offering to make the price differential acceptable for customers.

If you don't need the x-shutter it is not an easy sell to have to fork over 70k for a 100 megapixel+ system, even for a bit more megapixels ...
 
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buildbot

Active member
Teledyne Dalsa has an industrial camera with a 64 x 48 mm 86MP monochrome sensor and global shutter: Falcon4-CLHS 86M
Current price is more than €62k. It has very limited dynamic range of just 56 dB. There previously were color and rolling shutter versions of this sensor.

-Dominique
Also, in theory, largesense? With 9x11 inches. Though I have not seen posts from any here, ever.
 

TechTalk

Active member
Again, what's your point TechTalk?
The first point would be that you can't create images with a rumor. The second, and far more important point, would be that I've seen a great deal of rumor, misinformation, and speculation in online comments that could intentionally or unintentionally be damaging to a company's reputation or business.

So, it's my personal opinion that online gossip is of very little value and potentially harmful and therefor best avoided. Sometimes, it is just plain silly when the excitement is over some badly Photoshopped image from a rumor mill. I think that I'm free to state my personal point of view as are you.

As an aside, my post was a general comment regarding the rumors and photos that have been occasionally circulating online for awhile about the next X model camera. There's even been a recent revival of the same rumor which circulated 3 years ago regarding a DJI branded X1D. I didn't quote or reply to anyone in my post because it was about the subject of online rumor and gossip broadly speaking and not directed toward anyone.

In any event, I respect the right of others to voice their opinions including ones with which I disagree. I reserve the right to voice mine.
 
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Paul Spinnler

Active member
The first point would be that you can't create images with a rumor. The second, and far more important point, would be that I've seen a great deal of rumor, misinformation, and speculation in online comments that could intentionally or unintentionally be damaging to a company's reputation or business.

So, it's my personal opinion that online gossip is of very little value and potentially harmful and therefor best avoided. Sometimes, it is just plain silly when the excitement is over some badly Photoshopped image from a rumor mill. I think that I'm free to state my personal point of view as are you.

As an aside, my post was a general comment regarding the rumors and photos that have been occasionally circulating online for awhile about the next X model camera. There's even been a recent revival of the same rumor which circulated 3 years ago regarding a DJI branded X1D.

In any event, I respect the right of others to voice their opinions including ones with which I disagree. I reserve the right to voice mine.
Ok, that's fair, but I think it is a bit of a moot point to argue in online forums that gossip should be avoided. Happens all the time since the dawn of the internet and in the end everyone can form their own opinion. It is not that everyone cannot derive their own conclusions from what happens in the marketplace - it is not rocket science for example to see that Fuji has shaken up the market a bit with their low-price offerings.

The risk of reputational damage in my view is also quite limited, as fas as I can tell no one here pretends to know product roadmaps as facts - it is always outside-in based on what could be observed and labelled as speculation, but ofc ideally of an informed nature.

I try to be careful to not state as facts things I don't know and my views for example are from the vantage point of what I presume happens from a business perspective in the background. From time to time I have touch points with some people in the industry which is a key aspect in the formation of these views. Also, I comment only on systems I own, for the most part. I am in the Phase One, Alpa, Leica camp, but am always curious about Arca Swiss, Cambo, Hasselblad and am really envious of Hasselblad's colour science, for example.

In the end, every company can choose how to manage public relations and it seems like all of the camera manufacturers producing MFD systems are quite restrained in their communication which further invites speculation from their customers regarding future products.

In any case, thanks for coming back this way, ofc everyone can and should express their views - this is what makes forums interesting!
 

TechTalk

Active member
In the end, every company can choose how to manage public relations and it seems like all of the camera manufacturers producing MFD systems are quite restrained in their communication which further invites speculation from their customers regarding future products.
It's been my observation that companies put forward roadmaps or discuss future products when they feel it will not interfere with their sales of current products. Roadmaps are sometimes designed to reassure potential customers that more is coming for a new product line which hasn't had time to mature into a full system. Sometimes, future product discussions are designed to discourage potential customers from buying a competitor's product by dangling a carrot of some future better product of your own.

As a relevant example, the X1D was announced in June 2016 as a camera body and two lenses — a 45 mm and 90 mm. They then announced an XCD lens roadmap which has grown to include 10 lenses; V, H, and XPan lens adapters; and the 0.8X speed booster/focal reducer for H lenses. The roadmap was announced to reassure potential customers that a full range of lenses would become available over time. In addition there was the 907X, the updated X1D II, and a new Phocus Mobile 2.

There's a lot of frenetic activity involving announcements and marketing of future products with a new system. You've invested a lot in the initial development and you want to make a lot of noise about how great the future looks for additional products to round out your new system in order to get people interested in the introductory products.

With a mature system, that's rarely the case. Announcements are carefully timed to avoid damping the sales of your current product. On the rare occasions that future products are announced in advance, it might be done because your current product isn't selling.

So, when a system is pretty well developed, I don't tend to worry much about what's been announced for the future or rumors which may, or may not, pan out. I just pick from what's currently available and go about using it.
 
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TechTalk

Active member
...I find sarcastic posts devalue the quality of the forum...
That's exactly how I've always felt about comments that needlessly encourage fear, uncertainty, or doubt about the future of a company or its products. Although, those comments are often laced with sarcasm for added effect.
 

jecxz

Active member
the new leaked X2d pics are interesting, in the previous pics i saw, the camera had DJI in italics engraved on the Front, not Hasselblad.

body looks similar to the X1D
Are you here just to stoke rumors against Hasselblad? Do you use Hasselblad equipment? For well over a decade people come to forums to knock Hasselblad, question their future, suggest their end is near, and I am wondering what yours motives are, care to answer? Are you invested in Hasselblad? How much?

I did a quick search for leaked X2D photos and they are branded with Hasselblad:


Please provide links to your DJI branded X2D.

While you are at it, explain the significance of a DJI branded X2D and how it portends a bleak or bright future for Hasselblad, I would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

Lastly, I would love to learn more about you, please provide a link to your work. That would be fantastic. Thank you and be safe.
 

jecxz

Active member
That's exactly how I've always felt about comments that needlessly encourage fear, uncertainty, or doubt about the future of a company or its products. Although, those comments are often laced with sarcasm for added effect.
I think what you and others have said are welcome opinions for consideration. I'm not here to question any of it. You know my thoughts on opinions.

The title of this thread "bleak or bright" has me wondering; it is a consistent theme for a very long time, that of suggesting Hasselblad's future is at risk.

Cameras and lenses are tools, I think of them like paint brushes; some become your favorite but eventually, after a long time, they no longer perform as they used to and the vendor has since changed its line and altered the brand - it's no longer the same and we lament. I am still a Hasselblad user but I have hit that crossroads and ventured into the GFX system. However, I still use Hasselblad H gear from 2005 and 2007, it still works all these years later, indicia of a good company! A year ago Hasselblad's repair center in NJ fixed my 100mm; I did not doubt their existence. So my posts here question the purpose of the title, but not the discussions of the brands. Be safe and go make photographs.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
That's exactly how I've always felt about comments that needlessly encourage fear, uncertainty, or doubt about the future of a company or its products. Although, those comments are often laced with sarcasm for added effect.
Agree, and I think the thread title is sensational and designed to stir the pot. It is like someone throwing a bomb into a room to gleefully see what happens. That then somehow impacts the tone of the discussion because people are steered into taking a side so to say as one references mentally the thread title while writing. I think something more neutral would have been better, but I also still find it worthwhile to in this forum discuss how Hasselblad is doing and to reflect on what they might do in terms of new products, etc. ...

I wasn't aware of that youtube snippet, so that was a value add as it basically confirms the X2D ...
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
What’s wrong about speculating in a forum? I think there’s a nuance whereby someone can sensationally stir a pot or “troll” in how something is phrased or one can just share a view on what one perceives on what is happening. I think sometimes people really know things first hand, but are not allowed or willing to share the fact that they state a fact. Point is you can log onto a MFD forum and opine, speculate or whatever you want to call it on a company but I do not subscribe to the point that any of the forum content is damaging to a reputation of a company for that matter except if one is stating falsehoods.

But speculation should be allowed in a forum of like minded / interested folks and if one disagrees why the heck do you waste your time here anyhow would be my persepctive. And often it is not random speculation but “informed” with a reasoning behind it - everyone can check that reasoning for themselves and come up with an own view. I think there’s nothing wrong with that.

At this stage I am curious re the X2D and am also looking forward to Leica’s response down the road with the S4…
 
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jecxz

Active member
What’s wrong about speculating in a forum?

But speculation should be allowed in a forum of like minded / interested folks and if one disagrees why the heck do you waste your time here anyhow would be my persepctive.
Are you asking me? Not sure. I never said speculation should not be allowed. Did I say that?

You wrote "discuss" and unless someone knows the truth, the correct term is speculate.

Speculate away! By all means, write anything, about any brand, I have no issue with that. Be safe!
 

FloatingLens

Well-known member
Are you asking me? Not sure. I never said speculation should not be allowed. Did I say that?

You wrote "discuss" and unless someone knows the truth, the correct term is speculate.

Speculate away! By all means, write anything, about any brand, I have no issue with that. Be safe!
That and the title of this thread was the reason why I posted a recent interview with someone who actually represents Hasselblad just one page ago :) The rumor material spread thus far just doesn't look very credible to me.

I think the "problem" is our favorite company is rather secretive... and they probably have good reasons from decades in the business why it is their policy.
 

Satrycon

Well-known member
cant find the original link anymore, but here is a link pointing to a part of the article [ original was in chinese with pics]

https://unwire.hk/2019/08/04/hasselblad-x1d-50c/dc/

dji.jpg

Are you here just to stoke rumors against Hasselblad? Do you use Hasselblad equipment? For well over a decade people come to forums to knock Hasselblad, question their future, suggest their end is near, and I am wondering what yours motives are, care to answer? Are you invested in Hasselblad? How much?

I did a quick search for leaked X2D photos and they are branded with Hasselblad:


Please provide links to your DJI branded X2D.

While you are at it, explain the significance of a DJI branded X2D and how it portends a bleak or bright future for Hasselblad, I would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

Lastly, I would love to learn more about you, please provide a link to your work. That would be fantastic. Thank you and be safe.
 
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