Future of Hassy- Bleak or Bright?

[phOtOny teXas]

www.facebook.com/groups/HasselbladX1D/permalink/2557400147724519/

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Wonder how much of or whether the whole body from now will be “made in China”! After a few years of ownership by DJI would not be surprised if the majority of the production has moved to Asia by now.

 

[mristuccia]

https://photorumors.com/2022/06/17/more-hasselblad-x2d-medium-format-camera-rumors-and-leaks/

The most intriguing rumor for me is the following new spec:
"Capture One is expected to soon start working with Hasselblad files"

 

[ThdeDude]

"Capture One is expected to soon start working with Hasselblad files"

My understanding this is already the case but requires a hack. The big change of supporting Hasselblad files would be to have lens corrections and specific color profiles.

Maybe an indication of the demise of Hasselblad's H system? Without the H system Hasselblad would be no longer a direct competitor to PhaseOne.

 

[mristuccia]

My understanding this is already the case but requires a hack. The big change of supporting Hasselblad files would be to have lens corrections and specific color profiles.

I've already tried the hack. The results are quite good, but lens corrections and color profiles are indeed what I'm looking for.

 

[KlausJH]

My understanding this is already the case but requires a hack. The big change of supporting Hasselblad files would be to have lens corrections and specific color profiles.

Maybe an indication of the demise of Hasselblad's H system? Without the H system Hasselblad would be no longer a direct competitor to PhaseOne.

C1 cannot understand .FFF or .3FR files. There is no hack available for those formats. It is possible to export Hasselblad files as .DNG, then the Exif maker tag has to be changed from "Hasselblad" to something else. Then C1 can import these DNG. But these files don't have lens and color profiles included. They don't look the same as exported files from Phocus.
It would certainly be great when C1 fully supports HB's raw formats with all lens corrections and color profiles.

 

[nameBrandon]

My understanding this is already the case but requires a hack. The big change of supporting Hasselblad files would be to have lens corrections and specific color profiles.

Maybe an indication of the demise of Hasselblad's H system? Without the H system Hasselblad would be no longer a direct competitor to PhaseOne.

This is a function of the split of Phase One and Capture One as independent companies, nothing to do with Hasselblad. The new C1 iPad app is a big step for them (and is pretty enjoyable to use), and I think an indicator that we’re about to see new direction and capabilities for C1 which is, IMO, a great thing.

I’d love to see another option outside of Phocus for full profile / lens correction support. LR works but if one needs critical color work and lens corrections with Hasselblad, Phocus is still the only game in town.

 

[tcdeveau]

XCD lens corrections and Hassy color profiles in C1 would be nice

I'm currently using both X1D and P1 so it would be nice to run them through the same platform without the hack....tethering with the iPad app with both systems would be nice too (nudge nudge wink wink C1).

 

[TechTalk]

This is a function of the split of Phase One and Capture One as independent companies, nothing to do with Hasselblad. The new C1 iPad app is a big step for them (and is pretty enjoyable to use), and I think an indicator that we’re about to see new direction and capabilities for C1 which is, IMO, a great thing.

The private equity group that acquired Phase One and Capture One in 2019 are primarily looking to Capture One for growth in their investment. "Capture One...has contracts with Leica, Fujifilm, and Phase One for supporting their full range of cameras." "Capture One will continue its high growth in 2022, based on new products, new distribution systems and new OEM partnerships." [source: Phase One Group ApS 2021 Annual Report].

While it's certainly possible that an independent Capture One could support Hasselblad 3F or 3FR files, It's still a question of whether the new management will permit it or continue the defensive position. They have a new CFO who started about 4 months ago. As more fresh viewpoints come on board, it may improve the prospects for the barricade coming down.

Unfortunately, 2021 was the third year in a row of financial losses with Phase One Group posting a loss of 7 million euro. That may also provide some incentive to increase the Capture One revenue stream by letting in new customers.

 

[TechTalk]

I’d love to see another option outside of Phocus for full profile / lens correction support. LR works but if one needs critical color work and lens corrections with Hasselblad, Phocus is still the only game in town.

Hasselblad engineers worked closely with Adobe to get Lightroom files as close to results from Phocus as possible. It seems a number of people prefer to use Lightroom for their Hasselblad files, but I've preferred to use Phocus. I also know a couple of Hasselblad users that prefer Iridient Developer for their post processing.

People generally seem to prefer software they have already invested time in learning and have acquired skill in using. I'm sure that's part of my preference for Phocus. I have compared files from Lightroom on multiple occasions and dabbled with the trial version of Iridient, I still prefer the consistency and results from Phocus.

Phocus does render Hasselblad files differently using its own unique process and methodology which utilizes their extensive sensor calibration data and lens data to the fullest extent. I've been happy with creating 16-bit TIFF files in Phocus and using Photoshop for any final retouching. There are options available for Hasselblad files, but I agree with you about wanting to see more options. I always like having more options! The more options available, the greater the likelihood of finding the closest match for your individual needs and preferences.

 

[nameBrandon]

The private equity group that acquired Phase One and Capture One in 2019 are primarily looking to Capture One for growth in their investment. "Capture One...has contracts with Leica, Fujifilm, and Phase One for supporting their full range of cameras." "Capture One will continue its high growth in 2022, based on new products, new distribution systems and new OEM partnerships." [source: Phase One Group ApS 2021 Annual Report].

While it's certainly possible that an independent Capture One could support Hasselblad 3F or 3FR files, It's still a question of whether the new management will permit it or continue the defensive position. They have a new CFO who started about 4 months ago. As more fresh viewpoints come on board, it may improve the prospects for the barricade coming down.

Unfortunately, 2021 was the third year in a row of financial losses with Phase One Group posting a loss of 7 million euro. That may also provide some incentive to increase the Capture One revenue stream by letting in new customers.

”Starting out as a RAW image converter for Phase One cameras in 1994, Capture One became an independent company in 2020 after Phase One was acquired by Nordic private equity investor Axcel. With the decision to separate the software division from the camera manufacturer, Capture One could carve its own path as the definitive photography software company. “

Source - https://www.captureone.com/en/press

P1 is no longer calling the shots for the team at C1.

So yes, many factors could prevent Hasselblad 3FR from working in C1, but the point is that the current environment is far more favorable than it has ever been for a change like this.

Speculation that the parent PE firm would insist on the status quo is no different than speculation that we will see an evolution of C1 to support Hasselblad raw files.

 

[nameBrandon]

Phocus does render Hasselblad files differently using its own unique process and methodology which utilizes their extensive sensor calibration data and lens data to the fullest extent. I've been happy with creating 16-bit TIFF files in Phocus and using Photoshop for any final retouching. There are options available for Hasselblad files, but I agree with you about wanting to see more options. I always like having more options! The more options available, the greater the likelihood of finding the closest match for your individual needs and preferences.

Agreed! I use the same 16-bit TIFF workflow for anything where I need specific lens correction or critical color work. It’s an awesome option and I love that I can do that via Phocus.

 

[TechTalk]

”Starting out as a RAW image converter for Phase One cameras in 1994, Capture One became an independent company in 2020 after Phase One was acquired by Nordic private equity investor Axcel. With the decision to separate the software division from the camera manufacturer, Capture One could carve its own path as the definitive photography software company. “

Source - https://www.captureone.com/en/press

P1 is no longer calling the shots for the team at C1.

Right. Phase One and Capture One are separate companies. They've been separate companies for 2-1/2 years. They share ownership by the same corporate parent Phase One Group ApS which controls both entities. The separation appears to be a very good thing for Capture One and its future. It will be interesting to watch as it develops.

 

[TechTalk]

So yes, many factors could prevent Hasselblad 3FR from working in C1, but the point is that the current environment is far more favorable than it has ever been for a change like this.

Speculation that the parent PE firm would insist on the status quo is no different than speculation that we will see an evolution of C1 to support Hasselblad raw files.

I totally agree with you. The current environment is far more favorable than it has ever been for a more open environment with Capture One.

 

[rmueller]

While more options are certainly good I never quite understood why I'd need all those apps for my photographic work. I got into the HB digital world in 2008 with a H3DII-31 and using Phocus ever since. It was quirky back then but man the improvements have been significant. I like simplicity and an easy process and this is what I get with HB, nothing else needed except for the occasional subject separation in PS.
Please don't bother me with statements on how much better a Leica S (an APS-C camera in the digital MF world with an unfavorable aspect ratio IMO) or P1 (and C1) is when it's about the future of HB, I simply don't care. I'd wish for a HC 3.5/35 II one day and maybe a H7D in 5 years from now and that's pretty much it. New X one day, yes maybe, not that I need it but product evolution is a good thing of course. So naïve optimist I am, I consider HB's future as bright to answer the original question.
Kind Regards and a great weekend all, Ralf

 

[TechTalk]

Wonder how much of or whether the whole body from now will be “made in China”!

I don't wonder about "China!" and Hasselblad at all. I just wonder what I can photograph with one.

 

[TechTalk]

After a few years of ownership by DJI would not be surprised if the majority of the production has moved to Asia by now.

It's been well over 5 years since DJI acquired Hasselblad. The evidence of major changes that I've seen is that Hasselblad now has adequate funding, is profitable, and has a new development partner in DJI with some terrifically talented engineers. What I haven't seen is any evidence of production changes.

That cameras, like any other high-tech products, have component parts from all over the world is no surprise. That electronic components driving cameras (even legendary European brands) come from "Asia" is no surprise. That camera makers in Europe have partnerships with manufacturers and suppliers in "Asia" is no surprise.

Having spent some time online, it also doesn't surprise me to find people who want to plant seeds of suspicion without evidence. It doesn't surprise me to find there are still people that believe cameras and lenses are like wine grapes and require the right terroir in order to achieve excellence. Yeah, none of this surprises me in the least.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

It's been well over 5 years since DJI acquired Hasselblad. The evidence of major changes that I've seen is that Hasselblad now has adequate funding, is profitable, and has a new development partner in DJI with some terrifically talented engineers. What I haven't seen is any evidence of production changes.

That cameras, like any other high-tech products, have component parts from all over the world is no surprise. That electronic components driving cameras (even legendary European brands) come from "Asia" is no surprise. That camera makers in Europe have partnerships with manufacturers and suppliers in "Asia" is no surprise.

Having spent some time online, it also doesn't surprise me to find people who want to plant seeds of suspicion without evidence. It doesn't surprise me to find there are still people that believe cameras and lenses are like wine grapes and require the right terroir in order to achieve excellence. Yeah, none of this surprises me in the least.

Let's ignore the Weibo body part production leak then.

So on what basis precisely do you say all is great and nothing changed on the production side and that the remaining Hasselblad staff in Sweden is super happy with DJI as owner? The financial report you posted? Is it granular enough, can one see through the accounting how things are on the ground? How the management locally feels about DJI being in charge of all key decisions?

Can one really be fully agnostic about where and how products are being made in today's world, for example in view of ESG? How do you think they can sustain a low price point for the X system in view of inflation, rising salaries in Europe?

I would assume by moving as much as possible of the production to Shenzen, keeping just some experts in Europe (optics, sales, marketing, some key experienced managers), potentially squeezing dealer margins and maybe we can soon order the X camera directly online like their drones which would cut out the dealer middleman.

I really wonder how much the camera will cost and how they will achieve that price point on the backend assuming it will be in the same ballpark as the current X camera.

 

[TechTalk]

...we can only estimate what the new apo S line for the mirrorless body will be like. I would assume nothing else than staggering in comparison, akin to the APO SL lenses in 35mm land. ...and it is to be assumed that the next S line will be another leap in performance compared to anything available in medium format.

I confess that I am absolutely terrible at assuming anything. I usually try to leave that to the imagination of others who enjoy it. If you say "it is to be assumed", who am I to argue?

 

[TechTalk]

I cannot wait for 2024.

I hope it takes its sweet time in getting here. I am definitely in no hurry for it.

But, to each their own. "C'est la vie say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell" — Chuck Berry