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General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

Rec'd my "open box" kit today too. Looked like a brand new box and everything in box looked untouched. Nothing appears to have been repacked or used. Or, maybe it went back to Panasonic and they repacked it with all new stuff. Whatever the case may be, I can't complain. Looks new to me. All firmwares were 1.0, so updated the camera & lens, did some quick pix around the house and all seems good. Now to hide the boxes before the wife has another WTF moment :)
 

iiiNelson

Active member
Rec'd my "open box" kit today too. Looked like a brand new box and everything in box looked untouched. Nothing appears to have been repacked or used. Or, maybe it went back to Panasonic and they repacked it with all new stuff. Whatever the case may be, I can't complain. Looks new to me. All firmwares were 1.0, so updated the camera & lens, did some quick pix around the house and all seems good. Now to hide the boxes before the wife has another WTF moment :)
Your day seemed to go EXACTLY as mine but that’s what storage crates and garages are for. :ROTFL:
 
I opt for the "hide in plain sight" strategy and then tell my wife she's crazy... that box has been there for months... heck years!!! I'm not sure if it works or not :) Also, if you can stand it, keep your office / den a complete mess. Then added box just blends in with the general disaster zone look. She may not know the details, but she does know that the credit card seems regain airline points no matter how fast she spends them. Magic. Pure magic :)

Tom made a comment about the 24-105mm's bokeh (I think). Definitely some fugly-ness with busy foliage. I did some comparison shots with the Leica 90/2 APO M and Contax 100/2 Planar, both stopped down to F8 to compare bokeh. The 24-105mm has some donut bokeh tendencies, nissen rendering... for a kit zoom it doesn't matter, especially at this price, but it's something I'll be careful about.

Camera seems nice, but really big to me. If it had a grip, it would probably be the same size & weight as my long gone Canon 1Ds3. That's not a bad thing, but I can understand why Sony A7x users might have negative reaction. I've owned a bunch of the Sony's, not my favorite camera, but they are compact and fit easily into my Leica M bags. Whereas the S1R would probably blow out a seam or two.

Is there a way to assign EC adjustment to the round wheel on the back (the one with menu / set button in the middle)?
 

iiiNelson

Active member
I opt for the "hide in plain sight" strategy and then tell my wife she's crazy... that box has been there for months... heck years!!! I'm not sure if it works or not :) Also, if you can stand it, keep your office / den a complete mess. Then added box just blends in with the general disaster zone look. She may not know the details, but she does know that the credit card seems regain airline points no matter how fast she spends them. Magic. Pure magic :)

Tom made a comment about the 24-105mm's bokeh (I think). Definitely some fugly-ness with busy foliage. I did some comparison shots with the Leica 90/2 APO M and Contax 100/2 Planar, both stopped down to F8 to compare bokeh. The 24-105mm has some donut bokeh tendencies, nissen rendering... for a kit zoom it doesn't matter, especially at this price, but it's something I'll be careful about.

Camera seems nice, but really big to me. If it had a grip, it would probably be the same size & weight as my long gone Canon 1Ds3. That's not a bad thing, but I can understand why Sony A7x users might have negative reaction. I've owned a bunch of the Sony's, not my favorite camera, but they are compact and fit easily into my Leica M bags. Whereas the S1R would probably blow out a seam or two.

Is there a way to assign EC adjustment to the round wheel on the back (the one with menu / set button in the middle)?
My wife is something of a neat freak so nothing is out of place for long. That’s just not a strategy I could use... hence the stashing into old boxes in crates. In reality she probably doesn’t care too much as I’m not really a “spender” most of the time. My newest camera was over 4 years old.

On a side ore I haven’t taken the lens through the paces but I do plan to try out Sigma lenses tomorrow when they come to the local shop. Hopefully they bring some L-Mount stuff with them. The Tamron guy only brought Canon and Nikon junk but I already had the lenses on my Sony.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
Sigma was in town today and I got to try out the 45/2.8, 14-24/2.8, and the Sigma fp in L-Mount. I also tried out the 35/1.2 in E-mount. The 35 is nothing short of amazing. The 14-24 is very good (though they have a funky little filter/gel holder system behind the rear element. The 45 was nice and on the smaller side of things. The fp was interesting... but not for me. The Foveon camera will be released next year and Sigma has already stated that it’ll shoot files in DNG for maximum RAW compatibility. I’m leaning towards adding the 35/1.2 in L-mount personally.
 

SrMphoto

Active member
Sigma was in town today and I got to try out the 45/2.8, 14-24/2.8, and the Sigma fp in L-Mount. I also tried out the 35/1.2 in E-mount. The 35 is nothing short of amazing. The 14-24 is very good (though they have a funky little filter/gel holder system behind the rear element. The 45 was nice and on the smaller side of things. The fp was interesting... but not for me. The Foveon camera will be released next year and Sigma has already stated that it’ll shoot files in DNG for maximum RAW compatibility. I’m leaning towards adding the 35/1.2 in L-mount personally.
Thanks for sharing. What made you pick Sigma 35 f/1.2 instead of Leica Summicron 35 f/1.8? Price?
 

bensonga

Well-known member
The Foveon camera will be released next year and Sigma has already stated that it’ll shoot files in DNG for maximum RAW compatibility.
I sure hope it will be a FF Foveon sensor L-mount camera. I re-processed a few images from my sd Quattro tonight. I really like the sd Quattro images, but I would also love to have a higher resolution FF Foveon sensor L-mount option.

Gary
 

iiiNelson

Active member
Thanks for sharing. What made you pick Sigma 35 f/1.2 instead of Leica Summicron 35 f/1.8? Price?
I guess I still go back and forth but the benefits of the Sigma comes down to lens speed and price... optically and size wise, I think I still prefer the Leica. I wasn’t expecting to like the Sigma as much as I did but I hadn’t paid as much attention to it due to how often people mention the size.

...and with that said, it is (and I can’t stress this enough) cartoonishly large for a 35mm lens but optically its excellent. It makes the Sony Zeiss/GM lenses that so many complained about for their larger sizes. The 14-24 and 45 are reasonably compact though for what they are.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
I sure hope it will be a FF Foveon sensor L-mount camera. I re-processed a few images from my sd Quattro tonight. I really like the sd Quattro images, but I would also love to have a higher resolution FF Foveon sensor L-mount option.

Gary
Well there will be one. It was announced last year and further details were given in February of this year. It’ll have a 20.3 megapixel (x3) sensor for total resolution of 60.9.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
On another side note it looks like the local camera store is considering bringing Panasonic back. While I was in there three other people came in to look at the Sigma products and inquire about Panasonic as well which lead to a conversation about “what’s the big deal with people asking about Panasonic now?” I gave my own personal perspective and let the worker handle my S1R briefly. I also asked him to look at it this way - you carry items from all of their partners but not them because they don’t have “as strong of a photographic history” but it doesn’t make sense not to carry them when you’re carrying Leica, Sigma, and Olympus... and I argued they probably had a stronger video history than everyone that isn’t Canon (in the digital age) and Sony of the brands that they carry. Then there was conversation of throwing Fuji in there and for lenses I’d agree that they have the history but not for cameras to the same extent... in any case there was a bit of bias (I personally feel) but I sort of feel they had the same feelings towards Sony 3 years ago... now they can’t keep Sony stuff on the shelf and the legacy brands don’t move as well generally speaking. Some feel tied to brands because of SLR lenses and others due to familiarity... nothing wrong with that but hearing the argument that Panasonic needs to build out a lens lineup still while you’re promoting Canon and Nikon Mirrorless is a bit short sighted. When you take pricing out of the equation, they launched with the second largest lens lineup and they will probably maintain a healthy distance for the next couple of years of L-mount does well commercially.

oh and on a side note I just remembered that there are at least another 6 “designed for Mirrorless” Sigma lenses only the pipeline. The 14-24, 35, and 45 were just the first 3 announced/released. No clue on what the next lenses will be but they were described as “about 1/3 of what we will have to show in Mirrorless.” The rest of the SLR based lenses should be out by February and then the Mirrorless stiff should be releasing next year. The 14-24 was significantly smaller than the DSLR counterpart so there’s hope in seeing some newer Mirrorless designs for the L/FE Mount.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
I've been thinking about an L-mount camera since the Leica SL first appeared and then more seriously with the L-mount alliance and the Panasonic S1/S1r, soon Sigma or now perhaps a used SL. My original plan was to use an L-mount camera as the platform for my considerable collection of Leica R lenses. Of course I would buy a few native L-mount AF lenses also. I've been waiting for the Sigma Foveon L-mount camera to be released before making a decision/purchase. However, I now have an opportunity to buy very lightly used, near mint condition Panasonic S1 or S1r bodies, the 24-105/4, 70-200/4 and 50/1.4 lenses at prices that are about 50% of new (even less for the 50/1.4). Warranties included. I have about a week to decide. I'll be renting the S1r, 24-105 and 50/1.4 this weekend to give them a try. I might also try the S1 before making a decision.

To be honest, I haven't kept up with the views here on the GetDPI L-mount forum over the past several months re pros/cons of the S1 vs S1r. I'll be looking thru the various threads this weekend. I wonder if some who have wrestled with this decision would summarize your thoughts on the decision you ultimately made, especially with respect to using either camera with Leica R or similar lenses. If I were to buy a S1 or S1r, then it is even more likely that I will buy the Sigma Foveon L-mount camera when it is released (I really like images from my other Sigma Foveon cameras). In that case, maybe the S1 would be sufficient and perhaps a better fit for my Leica R lenses than the S1r?

TIA for your thoughts and experience.

Gary
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
I've been thinking about an L-mount camera since the Leica SL first appeared and then more seriously with the L-mount alliance and the Panasonic S1/S1r, soon Sigma or now perhaps a used SL. My original plan was to use an L-mount camera as the platform for my considerable collection of Leica R lenses. Of course I would buy a few native L-mount AF lenses also. I've been waiting for the Sigma Foveon L-mount camera to be released before making a decision/purchase. However, I now have an opportunity to buy very lightly used, near mint condition Panasonic S1 or S1r bodies, the 24-105/4, 70-200/4 and 50/1.4 lenses at prices that are about 50% of new (even less for the 50/1.4). Warranties included. I have about a week to decide. I'll be renting the S1r, 24-105 and 50/1.4 this weekend to give them a try. I might also try the S1 before making a decision.

To be honest, I haven't kept up with the views here on the GetDPI L-mount forum over the past several months re pros/cons of the S1 vs S1r. I'll be looking thru the various threads this weekend. I wonder if some who have wrestled with this decision would summarize your thoughts on the decision you ultimately made, especially with respect to using either camera with Leica R or similar lenses. If I were to buy a S1 or S1r, then it is even more likely that I will buy the Sigma Foveon L-mount camera when it is released (I really like images from my other Sigma Foveon cameras). In that case, maybe the S1 would be sufficient and perhaps a better fit for my Leica R lenses than the S1r?

TIA for your thoughts and experience.

Gary
Gary,
I primarily shoot with medium format technical camera these days, but I have the S1R and the 3 native lenses you mentioned. I bought it because of the reviews I read at the time, the fact it uses the same cards as my digital back and the hi-res mode. It has been a great fit for me, but I cannot speak to how it compares to alternatives.
Good luck,
Greg
 

bensonga

Well-known member
I decided to bring the S1 (instead of the S1r), 50/1.4, 24-105/4 and 70-200/4 home for testing this weekend.

I like larger mirrorless camera bodies, so the S1 feels really good in my hands. :thumbs:

I just wish the Leica SL to R lens adapter wasn’t so darn expensive. It is now $1,015. Very close to the price of this S1. Guess I should have bought the adapter when it was “only” $750.

Gary
 

AndereObjektiv

New member
I've had the S1R about a month, 330-ish shutter actuations.

Strengths are image quality, size/grip, weather sealing, pro level in every way. Evf is great. Falls to hand like a nikon or canon pro dslr, buttons for the most part in all the right places, and lots of them. Joystick is ok, but whatever. Menus are for the most part straightforward and mostly logical.

Weakness: Zoom in manual focus mode: Something in the way it is implemented, it doesn't actually zoom past 2x, the other zoom levels are just pixelated 2x views, so useless for critical focus. Fortunately the hdmi output has 1080p out so I can use an external hdmi monitor for critical focus. Some functions are a bit quirky, like constant preview mode is totally klunky compared to α7sm2, α9 and z7. In manual exposure mode on the others, a twirl of the shutter speed thumbwheel changes evf/screen instantly, on S1R it is slow and sometimes doesn't work. On manual focus assist zoom mode it turns off constant preview completely, so screen goes dark. Other quirky stuff, which probably has a menu setting somewhere but I can't even be bothered. I have one native lens, which I've owned for about 36 hours, the sigma 45 dg dn contempo l-mount, but even that I prefer to focus manually.

High resolution mode for landscapes: that's why I bought it and with the right glass it is spectacular. The files are simply astounding at this price level. Very good color science, no pdaf wasted pixels that have to be computationally magicked out to assemble the image like gfx and z7, excellent dynamic range at ISO 50. The new CVF50cII would be competition because it's 16bit with no pdaf as well, fits many lenses out there, but limited to 50mp so not there on spatial resolution compared to S1R or SL2 in high-res-mode.

For all it's quirks and shortcomings the S1R is a brilliant image making machine. Some of my images are in the fun with s1/s1r thread.
 
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iiiNelson

Active member
In summary I absolutely love the Panasonic S1R but I acknowledge it isn’t for everyone.

The IQ is excellent. The size and comfort are perfect for my hands. The lenses are great though I only own one native lens so far in the 24-105/4. There are plenty of native options now and it’ll only continue to grow. The only shortcomings for me is that the AF in video leaves something to be desired. The menu is a bit quirky but understand Sony has been my primary camera brand for nearly 6 years so I’m more intimately familiar with where those items are. In time this will be a non-issue. I’m still learning the cameras and how it operates so my opinions aren’t final yet. In time I feel the AF will get good enough that it won’t matter whether a company uses PDAF or CDAF based focusing... we just aren’t quite there yet. Even still the focusing is better than I expected for still photography. I concur on the joystick being just okay. I concur on some of the controlled behaviors being quirky compared to how a Sony just works without going to a menu to force it to cooperate.

On a side note, I would hope that Leica will open up the L-Mount to a few other lense makers like Voigtlander to have some great native manual focusing primes that don’t require an adapter. I look forward to seeing the lens roadmap for Panasonic being filled out. I’d like a semi fast and reasonably sized Leica certified 35/1.8 lens and I’d also like a native Leica certified 100/2 to be released.

Again I don’t regret the purchase and I received an open box S1R kit for Black Friday for less than 50% of a new bundle. I think it would pair well with your G9 personally and I’m actually considering doing just that.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
The limitations on manual focus assist mode which Andere described concern me, since my primary goal is to use the camera as a platform for my Leica R manual focus lenses.

Gary
 

iiiNelson

Active member

bensonga

Well-known member
That is really disappointing news from Sigma. :cry:

I hope they are able to bring a FF Foveon L-mount to market someday.

Glad I got the sd Quattro to tide me by for the next few years. Might have to pick up the sdQ H too.

Gary
 

bensonga

Well-known member
I decided to get the S1 instead of the S1R at this time. I think the 24mp sensor will work well with my Leica R lenses. It will be nice to have IBIS for my longer R telephotos (I had considered buying a used Leica SL). I also bought the 24-105/4, 70-200/4 and 50/1.4. Prices on the lenses were so good I just couldn't pass them up. I always prefer the ergonomics of a camera with the grip, so I picked up a grip too. I really like the feel of this camera and the weight doesn't bother me. It feels like a big brother to my Fuji X-H1 and Panasonic G9.

Since the Sigma Foveon sensor camera will be delayed for perhaps 2+ years, I may pick up a S1R in the months to come to use with the L-mount autofocus lenses.

Gary

 
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jdphoto

Well-known member
I decided to get the S1 instead of the S1R at this time. I think the 24mp sensor will work well with my Leica R lenses. It will be nice to have IBIS for my longer R telephotos (I had considered buying a used Leica SL). I also bought the 24-105/4, 70-200/4 and 50/1.4. Prices on the lenses were so good I just couldn't pass them up. I always prefer the ergonomics of a camera with the grip, so I picked up a grip too. I really like the feel of this camera and the weight doesn't bother me. It feels like a big brother to my Fuji X-H1 and Panasonic G9.

Since the Sigma Foveon sensor camera will be delayed for perhaps 2+ years, I may pick up a S1R in the months to come to use with the L-mount autofocus lenses.

Gary

I've been interested in this camera too, but never handled it. The fact that Sigma makes an assortment of L mount lenses that are reasonably priced is intriguing. However, once you said it's like a Fuji XH1, I questioned the S1 because I hated the Fuji design.

Also, what are Sigma L mount lenses like on the S1/r?
 
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