The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

  • Recently, there has been an increased activity from spammers, which may result in you receiving unwanted private messages. We are working hard to limit this activity.

GH5 Mark II

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Within its niche as a video production hybrid camera, the GH5 must be one of the most successful digital cameras ever. After 4 years, it's as relevant as ever, and in this country, finding a used one is next to impossible. Next week, the GH5 Mk II will be launched, a relatively modest upgrade, according to rumours at a lower launch price than the original GH5.

My guess is that a more expensive, much more advanced GH6 will follow later this year.

 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
If the rumors are true then it seems like a waste of developmental resources. Panasonic seriously needs to move the needle forward in a serious way and that needs to be with a new flagship micro 4/3 body. Whether that’s a G10 or GH6 it doesn’t matter to me but pricing is going to be a huge factor. I don’t see a world where many are going to choose a Micro 4/3 camera priced like a FF camera over an actual FF camera if there are glaring performance flaws to AF or if things like an external recorder (which in fairness are great generally) are needed for maximum performance.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
IMO any new m43 camera that stays in the 20MP range needed to have MUCH better DR and MUCH better high ISO than any of the current offerings. Having said that m43 needs also to increase MP count - there are 2 main reasons 1) is 8K and 2) a modern camera needs to get up in MPs just to stay competitive - period.

Neither is fulfilled by that GH5II and a GH6 that is on the radar be rather really great in all that previously mentioned disciplines or simply forget it as well. Main reasons - all these great FF cameras at very competitive prices available today.

Since going back into FF and finally selling off all my Olympus m43 gear I could not be happier. Much better colours and DR directly OOC (RAW) and also much better high ISO (although from a 45MP FF sensor) than any of my previously owned m43 cameras could/can deliver. And finally size - come on this old overused rathole, as soon as one adds pro-grade lenses form either vendor the system gets soon heavy and bulky again.

Thus I feel that m43 is kind at the end of its success road - simply the technology of 5 - 15 years ago. I cannot see any reason - not even price - to stay in m43 land. This from someone who seriously used and shot and loved 43 and m43 for almost 18 years and during some periods even exclusively.
 

KC_2020

Member
If the rumors are true then it seems like a waste of developmental resources.
What development costs ?

You must mean for the updates that will be used in subsequent new cameras as well so development cost will be amortized over more than one model.

IMO any new m43 camera that stays in the 20MP range needed to have MUCH better DR and MUCH better high ISO than any of the current offerings.
Which has nothing to do with the continued demand for the GH5.

This camera is a standard for B camera video, particularly in TV and Movie production when there is limited space, mounting for in-car shots,for example.

I work with a couple of TV production crews out of L.A. that carry a dozen or more GH5s with them because they're dependable and produce high quality video that's easy to grade and match to their primary cameras. The BBC uses them all over the world for the same reason.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
What development costs ?

You must mean for the updates that will be used in subsequent new cameras as well so development cost will be amortized over more than one model.



Which has nothing to do with the continued demand for the GH5.

This camera is a standard for B camera video, particularly in TV and Movie production when there is limited space, mounting for in-car shots,for example.

I work with a couple of TV production crews out of L.A. that carry a dozen or more GH5s with them because they're dependable and produce high quality video that's easy to grade and match to their primary cameras. The BBC uses them all over the world for the same reason.

The developmental resources used to promote a camera that’s essentially more or less the same with an updated battery based on the rumors. There are marketing resources, engineering resources, logistics, etc. being placed into the development of a newer model. I assume some of the newer algorithms from the LUMIX S cameras are being put into this camera as well. Again it’s all my own opinion. I’m not saying that the GH5 isn’t capable or even great (because it is great IMO) but it’s not the camera I’m spending $1700 for either personally.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
What development costs ?

You must mean for the updates that will be used in subsequent new cameras as well so development cost will be amortized over more than one model.



Which has nothing to do with the continued demand for the GH5.

This camera is a standard for B camera video, particularly in TV and Movie production when there is limited space, mounting for in-car shots,for example.

I work with a couple of TV production crews out of L.A. that carry a dozen or more GH5s with them because they're dependable and produce high quality video that's easy to grade and match to their primary cameras. The BBC uses them all over the world for the same reason.
Not sure if I understand why the GH5 is more reliable than a FF camera from Sony, Canon or Nikon .....

It just is NOT the case!
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
IMO any new m43 camera that stays in the 20MP range needed to have MUCH better DR and MUCH better high ISO than any of the current offerings. Having said that m43 needs also to increase MP count - there are 2 main reasons 1) is 8K and 2) a modern camera needs to get up in MPs just to stay competitive - period.

Neither is fulfilled by that GH5II and a GH6 that is on the radar be rather really great in all that previously mentioned disciplines or simply forget it as well. Main reasons - all these great FF cameras at very competitive prices available today.

Since going back into FF and finally selling off all my Olympus m43 gear I could not be happier. Much better colours and DR directly OOC (RAW) and also much better high ISO (although from a 45MP FF sensor) than any of my previously owned m43 cameras could/can deliver. And finally size - come on this old overused rathole, as soon as one adds pro-grade lenses form either vendor the system gets soon heavy and bulky again.

Thus I feel that m43 is kind at the end of its success road - simply the technology of 5 - 15 years ago. I cannot see any reason - not even price - to stay in m43 land. This from someone who seriously used and shot and loved 43 and m43 for almost 18 years and during some periods even exclusively.
I disagree with a few of your points regarding resolution and 8K. There are really only two hybrid photography camera options (Sony A1 and Canon R5) right now for 8K and I still believe that the 16-24 megapixel range is a great amount of resolution for most people still. I’m not saying that 8K isn’t desired but I feel like more people would benefit from higher frame rate oversampled 4K than they would having 8K in the near or immediate future.

As for being happy with you FF camera I get it, it has a different look than M4/3 but it’s doesn’t make it irrelevant for many people. The IQ is still great on M4/3. The lens lineup are largely fleshed out so there’s less of a need to develop anything other than better bodies and updated lenses with updated motors IMO. FF isn’t for everyone though. Many can’t afford premium optics or premium bodies so there’s a place for Micro 4/3 to attack the lower ends of the market with more premium bodies and features albeit with smaller sensors IMO.

I think Olympus and Panasonic are in two different boats. Olympus found itself in lots of trouble with being resistant to relevant updates as capable as some of their bodies may have been… few (if any) were asking for a $3K Micro 4/3 body. Panasonic has a healthier outlook and community of users IMO - particularly in the video space. The Panasonic GH series will sell on some level but I’m not sure about incremental changes being repackaged when people want to see a big jump. I believe things like higher frame rates, a wider range of higher end codecs like say internal ProRes, maybe some hardware changes to include things like the dual CFE-A/SD card slots, perhaps a SDI out along with Full HDMI will help move the camera… and of course the elephant in the room is still more reliable continuous AF in video.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Not sure if I understand why the GH5 is more reliable than a FF camera from Sony, Canon or Nikon .....

It just is NOT the case!
Traditionally for video hybrid use this is absolutely the case for better or worse. Panasonic cameras tend to be rock solid workhorses.

Nikon isn’t a factor at all in video… they just aren’t.

Sony and Canon cinema cameras tend to be rock solid but they typically aren’t as reliable in a non-controlled environment for video production. That’s not to say that they aren’t used and can’t be used - they can. Panasonic has earned a following and a reputation for being rock solid because they overbuild their cameras to not stop on a set… the GH4/5 have a lot to do with that…. Along with their other video cameras.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The biggest issue with m43 is that it is stuck with that almost same 20MP sensor for the last 5 years. Not even BSI. Just to long to wait till anything changes.

Anyone who is very patient and wants to repeatedly hear about how great these ancient sensors are will be happy - and I agree many do not want or lust for more.

In the end it does not help to keep the number of customers that are needed or does not bring enough new customers to make it business relevant.
 

KC_2020

Member
The developmental resources used to promote a camera ..... but it’s not the camera I’m spending $1700 for either personally.
That quite a stretch of the definition of development cost. Clearly you're not a potential buyer for this camera. OK, that doesn't mean that there isn't market for it.

As I posted earlier, I have work associates that have dozens of GH5s which they're kitted out with a cage, power systems etc.. Being able to put a GH5 II in that rig saves thousands of dollars and a lot of time.

Not sure if I understand why the GH5 is more reliable than a FF camera from Sony, Canon or Nikon .....

It just is NOT the case!
You're quoting the wrong person with this reply. I said nothing about reliability.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
That quite a stretch of the definition of development cost. Clearly you're not a potential buyer for this camera. OK, that doesn't mean that there isn't market for it.

As I posted earlier, I have work associates that have dozens of GH5s which they're kitted out with a cage, power systems etc.. Being able to put a GH5 II in that rig saves thousands of dollars and a lot of time.



You're quoting the wrong person with this reply. I said nothing about reliability.
It’s not a stretch. It’s apart of the entire project management to bring a product of any sort to the market. These things don’t just happen in a vacuum. It takes manpower, marketing dollars, international product filings to certify usage, patents where necessary, legal fees, etc. to launch a product. It’s easy to dismiss things as ”well the costs will be spread across other products” which is true. There are also things that’ll be individual that go into development of a product as well. Unless people are working for free Panasonic has line items for these things… not to mention hours of market research.

I’m aware that there is a market for the GH cameras but Panasonic also has very capable LUMIX S cameras as well now. They’re also attempting to grow in market share. I just don’t think a $2K+ rehash is the way to go. Part of the slow sales of the LUMIX S had to do with the cameras being introduced at put to 20% more than direct competitors. I’m sure they still don’t sell many native lenses by comparisons because many people complain about the prices. Now the lens prices are in line with direct competitors and I’d argue that they’re as good and likely better for both photo and video. Perception is reality for many though and that’s the general perception of Panasonic. Kinda like many perceive the AF to be poor. I’d argue that it’s as good if not better than most cameras for photos. Where it can fall behind is in continuous AF for video applications. It’s improved somewhat but it’s not as good as Sony or Canon generally speaking. I’d say it’s comparable to Fuji and Nikon for sure though in my own usage of the systems.

I’m aware people rig their cameras… I do too for video. I have a SmallRig cage, a Fotga follow focus, a lot of NATO attachment rails, and Atomos Ninja V, a Sound Devices MixPre II for Audio, etc. There are lots of options though in the same price range too though from Blackmagic Design, ZCam, and other hybrid cameras. The GH line was ahead of its time… no argument about that.

I’m still technically invested in some Micro 4/3 cameras so I’m not opposed to future developments but I wouldn’t be excited about the rumored camera personally after how Panasonic really delivered on the GH4, G9, and GH5/S/BGH cameras. I’m not a person that thinks they need massive increases in resolution. The video work I do gets delivered in 4K and 1080p. I’d only want higher resolution if it provides a supersampled 4K personally. I think we are still 5-10 years from 8K being more widely adopted.
 
Last edited:

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The biggest issue with m43 is that it is stuck with that almost same 20MP sensor for the last 5 years. Not even BSI. Just to long to wait till anything changes.

Anyone who is very patient and wants to repeatedly hear about how great these ancient sensors are will be happy - and I agree many do not want or lust for more.

In the end it does not help to keep the number of customers that are needed or does not bring enough new customers to make it business relevant.
Thone are just random tech terms. If there was a reason to go to a BSI sensor and one was available before recently then I’m sure they’d move to one. If we are talking about companies waiting a long time to move along technologically - well people hated (seemingly anyway) when Sony spent years developing their system where it is now. People complained about them releasing multiple models within a timeframe where Canon and Nikon released one or two cameras.

I think there’s a reality that the existing cameras are more than good enough and that YOU or I as an end user have desires that have possibly shifted from Micro 4/3 as a primary system for what we want from a camera and that’s okay too. I happen to still like Panasonic cameras…. I never really cared for Olympus cameras personally… I just hope the next generation one has some significant additions because the rumored specs look like the same camera with a slightly updated processor and a new battery.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I'm currently doing more than 50% video work, and for that purpose, is see no reason whatsoever to move beyond MFT. If the GH5 II is upgraded to current state-of-the-art with regards to IBIS, AF and processing, it will be good for another 5 years or more. If it costs 1,700, 1,500 or 1,200 is less interesting. As KC-2020 points out, those who do video for a living are mostly heavily investested in "supporting hardware", much of it made to fit a particular camera body.

A new, improved sensor would be nice, but I doubt that we will see that in the Mark II. What I would like to see is the excellent GH5s sensor in a stabilised body, in addition to the current non-stabilised version. I'm currently using a G85 for most of my video work, and have been considering a new GH5 and/or GH5s to replace that. This Mark II will obviously be given very serious consideration.

For stills, I prefer a DSLR, and prices are very, very nice now.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Will not make many friends with the link to Tony Northrups video about the status of m43 and the GH5 II and GH6 but anyway here it is


I know a lot of folks hate Tony, but I must admit he unfortunately predicted "the death of m43" already some years ago and unfortunately he seems to be right.

Take/make your own best decision - for me it was finally enough after many years of waiting in April of 2021 and I left behind all my m43 gear (from Olympus) and I could not be happier having done that and moved on again to FF after so many years.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I'm far too busy making money with my MFT cameras to waste time listening to the famous naysayer telling me that my cameras are dead.

For my next job, I need a 50mm eqv. lens more suitable for low light and shallower DOF than my current 25mm f/1.7. The Zuiko 25mm f/1.2 and the Z-mount 50mm f/1.8 both cost around $7-800 in this country. The diference is that I need to buy a camera that costs a minimum of $1,500 to mount the Nikkor on. Easy choice.

The alternative of course is to buy a new $800 D610 and a $200 50mm f/1.8 in F-mount. No, I don't need a full frame mirrorless.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well Jorgen,

your personal choice, desires and or situation will most likely not change the market evolution.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
I know a lot of folks hate Tony, but I must admit he unfortunately predicted "the death of m43" already some years ago and unfortunately he seems to be right.
Well, I don't hate Tony, everybody is entitled to their opinion, usually I just disagree with him.
I haven't watched his video's for a long time as I have high doubts his reliability increased :p
And predicting the death of something will inevitably be true some day, but I think he's way too early with this one 😂
 
Top