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Hand-held Pancakes

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Beautiful . But where is the release button ? ? ?
With copal lenses it is the Alpa gold thumb actuator with sync cable.1729328100764.jpeg

With X shutter it is the back of the screen, which means you need to lift the camera to eye level for critical focus given the lack of EVF solution.

That's why I hope that the IQ5 we get bluetooth for third party wireless trigger, but would not hold my breath given P1's history of walled garden approach for even basic features like a trigger button which they reserved for the XT to drive sales (which failed).

I mean even the XC has an unnatural front shutter button, another design flaw, although it should be part of a grip like the rest of the camera world.

Screen works ok as you can tap it with your thumb while holding the camera.

The SWA won a European Red Dot Design Award back in the day of its release:

"ALPA 12 SWA prototype 1997 with study with early hand grip sketchesIn 2000, ALPA 12 WA/SWA won the "Red Dot" design award in the highest category with the remark: “Highest Design Quality for: Degree of innovation, Functionality, Formal Quality, Ergonomics, Durability, Symbolic and emotional content, Product peripherals, Self-explanatoriy quality.”
 
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jotloob

Subscriber Member
With copal lenses it is the Alpa gold thumb actuator with sync cable.View attachment 216832

With X shutter it is the back of the screen.

That's why I hope that the IQ5 we get bluetooth for third party wireless trigger, but would not hold my breath.

I mean even the XC has an unnatural front shutter button although it should be part of a grip like the rest of the camera world.
Thanks for the response . I have the old and new style wakeup device with the "golden" release button . Quite handy for handheld .

But how do you manage handheld with a touch on the back screen ? I imagine , that you need some exercise to do that .
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Thanks for the response . I have the old and new style wakeup device with the "golden" release button . Quite handy for handheld .

But how do you manage handheld with a touch on the back screen ? I imagine , that you need some exercise to do that .
It works well with the TC if you have shift sticks installed in the HPF rings which you can use to manually focus with say the middle finger while the thumb is used for actuation.

The magic formula is: TC + X shutter + HPF ring + Shift stick. Then you hold the TC with both arms and can easily actuate and focus.
 

dchew

Well-known member
It works well with the TC if you have shift sticks installed in the HPF rings which you can use to manually focus with say the middle finger while the thumb is used for actuation.

The magic formula is: TC + X shutter + HPF ring + Shift stick. Then you hold the TC with both arms and can easily actuate and focus.
I find vastly better luck using the Copal Shutter with Alpa's sync cord / switch. I rotate the lens 90 degrees so the shutter release is on the bottom of the camera. Shutter is fired by the middle finger of my left hand that is cradling the bottom of the camera. You can still focus with the thumb/forefinger of your left hand.

You can use live-view for helping zone focus, but I find for actual picture taking the long scan time of the e-shutter kills more shots than missed zone focusing. Regardless, these cameras really are the wrong tool for serious hand-held shooting. YMMV.

Dave
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Maybe I am not aware of how the copal sync cord interaction with Phase backs works; isn't the back also benefitting from the copal shutter in getting one snapshot of time read out?

With the X shutter I have a tack sharp image. It works. Clearly, at 3.5k a pop its not exactly cheap.

I find the TC with the HR 40 in X shutter absolutely amazing. And I get sharp results handheld everytime, courtesy of the shutter.
 
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dchew

Well-known member
No, I don't think you are missing anything. I wasn't clear. I was just comparing a mechanical shutter (Copal or X) vs e-shutter. I keep forgetting about the X shutter because none of my lenses have one.

The Alpa sync cord/switch wakes the back at the beginning of the shutter stroke right before the Copal shutter fires. It just eliminates the need to wake up the back since the IQ4 has no zero latency.

Dave
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I find vastly better luck using the Copal Shutter with Alpa's sync cord / switch. I rotate the lens 90 degrees so the shutter release is on the bottom of the camera. Shutter is fired by the middle finger of my left hand that is cradling the bottom of the camera. You can still focus with the thumb/forefinger of your left hand.

You can use live-view for helping zone focus, but I find for actual picture taking the long scan time of the e-shutter kills more shots than missed zone focusing. Regardless, these cameras really are the wrong tool for serious hand-held shooting. YMMV.

Dave

This is a good example of one of those Alpa attributes that extend beyond "symbol and status" - the square mounting format. This may seem like an insignificant random choice, but in fact was a well considered design choice made by Alpa (not by chance and not by Seitz) to incorporate a square mount that has benefits, as Dave illustrates above.

https://www.captureintegration.com/alpa-12-camera-systems-benefits-of-a-square-lens-mount/


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

rdeloe

Well-known member
This is a good example of one of those Alpa attributes that extend beyond "symbol and status" - the square mounting format. This may seem like an insignificant random choice, but in fact was a well considered design choice made by Alpa (not by chance and not by Seitz) to incorporate a square mount that has benefits, as Dave illustrates above.

https://www.captureintegration.com/alpa-12-camera-systems-benefits-of-a-square-lens-mount/


Steve Hendrix/CI
It seems like a small thing but it's not.

The square mount for lens plates is one of the things I really like about the F-Universalis. It makes it so much easier to use the camera when it is in awkward positions (low, high off the ground, in a weird spot).
 

lookbook

Well-known member
.. if there's one thing I've never missed, it's square lens mounts!!
But if we advertise it a little more, it will become the deciding factor for buying the Alpa and Universalis!!
Unfortunately, everyone else has to place the camera on the tripod rotated 90° and turn the back.
Absolutely impossible, right?!!
:)
 

Doppler9000

Active member
This is a good example of one of those Alpa attributes that extend beyond "symbol and status" - the square mounting format. This may seem like an insignificant random choice, but in fact was a well considered design choice made by Alpa (not by chance and not by Seitz) to incorporate a square mount that has benefits, as Dave illustrates above.

https://www.captureintegration.com/alpa-12-camera-systems-benefits-of-a-square-lens-mount/


Steve Hendrix/CI
Wouldn’t a circular mount be even better?
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
But why is the image blurred with a copal shutter?
Wouldn’t a circular mount be even better?
Cannot be fastened while having flexibility for multiple positions.

Arcas R mount is round but it is a pain in the ass in the field and sometimes you think something is tight although it is not. The ending position is fixed.

The Alpa mount clips in in a second and stays fixed like a rock. Changing orientation is very quick. Remember everything is square and symmetric, meaning lenses, tilt adapters, backs can be turned around quickly while keeping very high tolerances and rigidity and therefore planarity.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Wouldn’t a circular mount be even better?

Perhaps, if it had built-in rotation. But then you've added additional engineering, cost, tolerances, etc. And really, a bit beside the point. Once you've established where you like the components (copal shutter trigger, aperture handle, lens open/close switch, etc.) of the lens chassis to be located, depending upon your own subjective intentions and where your hands most easily go to, then that is how you always mount the lens. There wouldn't really be much point to adding in a rotating mechanism for a lens mount (that I can see).

Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Doppler9000

Active member
Perhaps, if it had built-in rotation. But then you've added additional engineering, cost, tolerances, etc. And really, a bit beside the point. Once you've established where you like the components (copal shutter trigger, aperture handle, lens open/close switch, etc.) of the lens chassis to be located, depending upon your own subjective intentions and where your hands most easily go to, then that is how you always mount the lens. There wouldn't really be much point to adding in a rotating mechanism for a lens mount (that I can see).

Steve Hendrix/CI
I meant my answer tongue-in-cheek - I just meant that additional axial symmetry could only be beneficial.. Forgot to include an appropriate emoticon.
🧛‍♂️
 

Doppler9000

Active member
But why is the image blurred with a copal shutter?


Cannot be fastened while having flexibility for multiple positions.

Arcas R mount is round but it is a pain in the ass in the field and sometimes you think something is tight although it is not. The ending position is fixed.

The Alpa mount clips in in a second and stays fixed like a rock. Changing orientation is very quick. Remember everything is square and symmetric, meaning lenses, tilt adapters, backs can be turned around quickly while keeping very high tolerances and rigidity and therefore planarity.
I don’t think it would be that hard to design a system around a circle - perhaps akin to a Durst enlarger mount, but more precise.

A lathe is pretty good at making planar cones.
 
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Geoff

Well-known member
The few times I've tried the Alpa handheld, it just shouts out "there are better tools to use". So I listen.

One of the less articulated aspects of the Alpa is its practicality and the fun that comes from the modularity. The square mounts are great, not only for flexibility, but also for ease of use. And there is the benefit of mixing up the front/back ratio of weight.
Before the STC, I tried the Cambo WRS 1200 - a fine camera, and on paper, the dual axis shifting was much closer to what I needed. But it didn't feel quite right - and the STC has shown that with most images, it's more than enough. Oddly, the ability to change back orientation simply, along with the shifting, gives another aspect of creative and enjoyable use.
Alpa's earlier marketing of exclusivity and luxe for me was a turn-off. But the sheer pleasure of using the gear is far more meaningful than expected. There's a zen to using these pancake cameras (Alpa, Arca, Campo) that is quite rewarding.
 
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