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Has P1 defocused back upgrades to fund C1 R&D? And what does one pay for in C21 anyway?

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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Hi guys

I somehow lost track what to still expect from the P1 firmware? What about Wifi Tethering?! It is end of 2020?!

Is it just me or have the upgrades been forgotten? I think some programmers quit or everyone is focusing on developing C1 and coming into a yearly upgrade cycle to fund the private equity driven revenue growth plan? To sell the business at one stage at a higher price they need to move everyone into subscription (SaaS) and then like Adobe constantly add new features? Clearly no time to spend to develop an app client for the IQ4 150 back? What about capture pilot for my iPhone?

Given C1 is advanced software, new features become expensive to develop as they require more time and resources, so I guess any updates will only come post C21?

And C21 - isn't this just incremental upgrade which could just as well be C1 20.6 or so? What is new? See ads everywhere, but no feature descriptions?

I think it is because it is just small features?

Thanks
Paul
 
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onasj

Active member
Agree. Updating their $40,000 back so it can transfer files and tether over wifi like the vast majority of pro and even semi-pro cameras made after 2010 would be a nice start.

And fixing basic features that they broke in the last firmware update like auto-ISO in M mode would also be nice!
 
Ray Harrison

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
The last I read was that they’re going to release an IQ4 firmware update in the coming weeks to support X-shutter via cable on Cambo lens panels. Don’t know what else, if anything, will be included. Capture One and Phase One are separate entities. They aren‘t defunding one to prioritize another.
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
Separate but the revenue still goes to one place. I don’t believe Capture One has totally spun away from Phase One. It all rolls up to the same corporate bank eventually. If they were totally separate it would make no sense for C1 to no longer support Lecia S7 or Hasselblad raw.

As for Phase One and the IQ4, it been two years now and it’s pretty clear that no adhoc solution is coming so no Capture Pilot As for a stronger software for WiFi tethering I would no except anything soon if ever.

IQ4 still has many bugs that go back to day one that have no been fixed.

Paul C
 
buildbot

buildbot

Well-known member
I'd wish they'd open source their firmware at least, or parts of it so other people could fix it!
I imagine most of the image quality in a back is the sensor, I don't really believe phase would have too much software magic they'd want to protect that wouldn't just be part of capture one or something instead.
 
Ray Harrison

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
Definitely the sensor is part of it and is important but the image pipeline/FPGA after the sensor collects the photons is equally important, if not more, and is where I’d wager their IP sits. “C1 inside” may play a role further down the chain. But they do have a Linux-based OS and that means it should be standards based, and doing things like WiFi or standard “computer things” should be more straight forward and faster to fix. You’d think, anyway.
 
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onasj

Active member
Fixing bugs like auto ISO deactivating after each shot in M mode really shouldn’t be hard to fix. It seems Phase One simply lacks the manpower to issue more regular updates—even small ones to fix simple but annoying bugs. I suspect they are bleeding customers in the meantime as Hasselblad (X) and Fuji continue to issue MF products with fewer bugs and more regular firmware updates.
 
GrahamWelland

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
My IQ4150 technically is awesome but still not up to the same overall usability as my IQ3 backs. Now obviously we have some superb new functionality but the UI still sucks IMHO.
 
Last edited:
Mexecutioner

Mexecutioner

Well-known member
drevil said:
i would really like to see if they could work out a way to make live view usable on the iq1/2 series
Click to expand...
Sadly, I think that if they not addressing the issues of their current backs they won't spend a second even thinking about touching the older IQ series backs. Still for me my IQ4150 is a joy to use.
 
drevil

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
Mexecutioner said:
Sadly, I think that if they not addressing the issues of their current backs they won't spend a second even thinking about touching the older IQ series backs. Still for me my IQ4150 is a joy to use.
Click to expand...
i have absolutely no illusions about the possibility of P1 trying to improve older backs, they wont!
and i guess magic lantern wont touch it either, as the market would be very small too
 
buildbot

buildbot

Well-known member
I bet if they open sourced even some of their older backs, it would drive up their used price, which I imagine phase would like? ;)

A magic lantern grade team working with these backs could probably produce some amazing things!
 
fmueller

fmueller

Active member
drevil said:
i would really like to see if they could work out a way to make live view usable on the iq1/2 series
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the "problem" with live view on the iq1/2 series is that every one of them is a CCD sensor except for the 50mp backs. I had a Leaf Credo 60, similar to an IQ160, a CCD sensor, spectacular image quality but its live view was functionally unusable. The problem is that CCD can never come close to live view on a CMOS back, I don't think it is a difference engineering can solve
 
drevil

drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
fmueller said:
Pretty sure the "problem" with live view on the iq1/2 series is that every one of them is a CCD sensor except for the 50mp backs. I had a Leaf Credo 60, similar to an IQ160, a CCD sensor, spectacular image quality but its live view was functionally unusable. The problem is that CCD can never come close to live view on a CMOS back, I don't think it is a difference engineering can solve
Click to expand...
the issue is the high MP count, and that CCD sensors are global shutter sensors, therefore the whole sensor is being read out at once. and i guess, that even though you zoom in the rest of the sensor will be also read out. for this the CPU is too weak to present live view at at least 24fps

wild guess though
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
As a second thought, having owned P45+, IQ160, IQ260, IQ250, IQ3100 over the past years, and always upgraded, the IQ4 has amazing image quality. The two most powerful features for me bring Dual Exposure (really a huge advantage for my workflow) and frame averaging, (which has more limited use in the field due to the issues with subject movement).

I was stunned when I first received my back and used the Live View (coming from the IQ250 and 3100) to find that the Live View was just nothing like the previous backs. The fact it took almost 1.5 years to resolve it was interesting as I was quick to point it out to my dealer and Phase One directly. With the last formal firmware that brought Dual exposure out, it was fixed.

The issue with cropped frames when using a tech camera (issue occurs randomly) has been corrected with a beta firmware that I am using now. So far no issues and cropped frames problem is gone. (only occurred on tech cameras and ES shutter, not on the XF).

The ability to use older Schneider lenses, like the 35XL, albeit with little to no shift, but with almost no color cast is impressive. Using the more modern wides like the 32mm Rodenstock or 40mm Rodenstock allows for no color cast in the sky and the need for only 1 series of LCC frames to account for the light loss on shifts.

Hopefully P1 will bring out something in the future for a Capture Pilot solution replacement.

The images I have taken with Dual exposure outdoors continue to impress me.

Paul C
 
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