Hasselblad H future...

[satybhat]

Trying to find my way back into the MF system... was talking to someone knowledgeable enough in the industry that I refrain from saying who. The quote was "Hasselblad will likely not push ahead with the H-system, pretty much the system is dead, so although there's a lot of used gear out there to keep going for a few years, it might make more sense to invest in Phase."
Any comments?

 

[buildbot]

I'm sure they'll support the h6d for as long as they can, but I would be really surprised if there is an H7D...I would even be surprised if there is another XF! Having disassembled both an XF and some H series cameras (not the H6D, I assume it wasn't really upgraded...), the electronics architecture/design of the XF is as you might expect 1-2 decades better. The uC in an H1 was a Fujitsu MB90550A, which is ancient, and XFs have a big lattice FPGA+ARM Cores.

Basically the H series platform is being superseded by either the older V platform with the 907x or the newer X1D platform. Maybe the H7D will be a back with a swappable V/H mount Ixpress/Sinar style.

 

[earburner]

I think this is clear that the H-System not getting any updates. The 100 megapixel back is now seriously old... I know Phase one are suffering from the gfx taking a big chunk of their market. I think neither will be getting any updates for a long time.

 

[drevil]

I think whats most telling is, until today we didnt see a X1(2)D with the 102mp and no H series camera/back with the 150mp sensor.

now for the X1D, i was thinking, maybe fuji does have an exclusive deal with sony and P1 maybe too for the 150mp sensor?
who knows and unless you are an insider, all you can do is speculating.

and jeez i just checked, its 4 years ago that HB announced the last new lens(es)? correct me if i am wrong.

that is truly suspicious

as a user of two systems, c645 with a p65+ back and a gfx100 with some lenses, native and adapted, my opinion is that you probably would be on the safe side by investing into the fuji system.

unless of course you want a MF full frame sensor. of course the H6D is still and remains a great system, but the brightest future might be the fuji gfx system

 

[buildbot]

now for the X1D, i was thinking, maybe fuji does have an exclusive deal with sony and P1 maybe too for the 150mp sensor?

I know that the 100MP 44x33mm is actually in a few Phase One machine vision/drone cameras, and the 150mp a few astro cams.
It just might not be possible to build a new camera right now with the chip shortage, or they don’t see being able to compete with the GFX 100s? Fuji might sell the 100mp sensor at a loss in order to drive adoption.

Also the H systems is literally a Fuji system, the lenses where all made in Japan by them. Maybe they still do not own the full system and have to ask Fuji nicely

 

[tcdeveau]

Both HB and P1 have been pretty quiet on the product front. Even the IQ4 is going on 3.5 years old now. The XF older than that. All we can do is speculate.

My somewhat cynical view these days is that if system/manufacturer longevity is a concern, I'd just get a GFX, but it depends on your needs/wants/all that.

The H and P1 systems are still great systems and second hand prices have come down, they're both being supported by manufacturer and dealer support/service as well. I'd reach out to our forum sponsor Capture Integration and get their take as well in case you haven't already.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Don't forget that there is a chip crisis momentarily so all development is slow / delayed due to lack of components and they probably keep costs low as the professional photogrpher community needs to recover first.

Phase One makes good money on the industrial side still so I would definitly trust the XF / XT system more. I think IQ5 is a 23/24 thing - updated arm core for more onboard processing power and maybe a bit more DR and color science stuff. I think DJI is more focused on milking the brand as much as possible with brand deals and by selling x-system cameras, but not h system cameras.

 

[SylB]

Buildbot, I don't think the H1 is comparable to the H6... The H6D platform and X1D platform share most of their components. It is not because all H body share the same shape that the inside is the same.
Regarding the need to ask nicely to Fuji and not owning the system : intellectual property of the HC lens designs belongs to Hasselblad, they have filled the patents. Yes, they are (or were...) assembled in Japan, but Fuji is an industrial partner, not the owner.

Regarding the use of H camera system : I don't like mirrorless cameras, so Fuji is out of question (and X1D too), and if I use a MFD camera, I prefer to use the biggest sensor possible. So I just hope by camera continues to work for a long time, as I don't need a newer one. 100MP is already plenty, the sensor is perfect for my needs.

 

[docholliday]

The only "true" Fuji-blad was the H1/H2 film bodies. Those were rebadged Fuji GX645AF and while the lenses were made by Fuji, a few of the early ones were a shared design with HB owning most of the patents. There are versions of the early lenses that were available with Fuji EBC as the coating and marketed/sold by Fuji. Fuji making the lenses is no different than Cosina making many of the modern Zeiss lenses, including the Otus line. In that case, it's Zeiss equipment, design, and supervision in a Cosina factory.

There's nothing wrong with Fuji glass - it's good stuff. But, I agree with many that I'd never own a Fuji body since I despise and have no use for mirrorless cameras. They just don't work in the environments and style that I shoot. I'd never own an X1D or 907 either. If I was hobbying around, they'd probably be ok, but for production work, they've gotten in my way every time the few times that I've attempted to use them. And EVF/LV is just completely dysfunctional in a lot of the low light, fast capture environments I've been in.

Yet, I also can't stand the P1 XF system. The bodies just hurt to use and are way too clunky (both physically and in ergonomics). While I appreciate the features they offer on the bodies, using a swipey menu to reach items doesn't work well with me. I prefer to be able to blindly reach a button and do what needs done without taking my eye off the optical finder.

So for me, my H5/6 collection will have to do for the next many years. I'll have to start hoarding extra bodies for parts as I usually fix my own stuff anyways.

 

[dougpeterson]

The only "true" Fuji-blad was the H1/H2 film bodies. Those were rebadged Fuji GX645AF and while the lenses were made by Fuji, a few of the early ones were a shared design with HB owning most of the patents. There are versions of the early lenses that were available with Fuji EBC as the coating and marketed/sold by Fuji. Fuji making the lenses is no different than Cosina making many of the modern Zeiss lenses, including the Otus line. In that case, it's Zeiss equipment, design, and supervision in a Cosina factory.

There's nothing wrong with Fuji glass - it's good stuff. But, I agree with many that I'd never own a Fuji body since I despise and have no use for mirrorless cameras. They just don't work in the environments and style that I shoot. I'd never own an X1D or 907 either. If I was hobbying around, they'd probably be ok, but for production work, they've gotten in my way every time the few times that I've attempted to use them. And EVF/LV is just completely dysfunctional in a lot of the low light, fast capture environments I've been in.

Yet, I also can't stand the P1 XF system. The bodies just hurt to use and are way too clunky (both physically and in ergonomics). While I appreciate the features they offer on the bodies, using a swipey menu to reach items doesn't work well with me. I prefer to be able to blindly reach a button and do what needs done without taking my eye off the optical finder.

So for me, my H5/6 collection will have to do for the next many years. I'll have to start hoarding extra bodies for parts as I usually fix my own stuff anyways.

I wonder if you’ve tried an XF in the last year or so. With the most recent AF sensor and body firmware the responsiveness is much snappier, and possible button-function customization is very strong. Maybe you can share some functions you want to access blindly via hard button and I can tell you if they can be mapped in the current firmware.

 

[buildbot]

Buildbot, I don't think the H1 is comparable to the H6... The H6D platform and X1D platform share most of their components. It is not because all H body share the same shape that the inside is the same.
Regarding the need to ask nicely to Fuji and not owning the system : intellectual property of the HC lens designs belongs to Hasselblad, they have filled the patents. Yes, they are (or were...) assembled in Japan, but Fuji is an industrial partner, not the owner

I would be shocked if the H6D body itself had anything to do with an x1d, why would it? The back sure…

I totally believe the part about the licensing, though aren’t the lenses for the arri 65 rehoused hc lenses by fuji (or still hasselblad i guess???)

 

[buildbot]

I wonder if you’ve tried an XF in the last year or so. With the most recent AF sensor and body firmware the responsiveness is much snappier, and possible button-function customization is very strong. Maybe you can share some functions you want to access blindly via hard button and I can tell you if they can be mapped in the current firmware.

The newest firmware is night and day snappy, its actually a different camera now in my opinion. Phase did a great job.

 

[docholliday]

I wonder if you’ve tried an XF in the last year or so. With the most recent AF sensor and body firmware the responsiveness is much snappier, and possible button-function customization is very strong. Maybe you can share some functions you want to access blindly via hard button and I can tell you if they can be mapped in the current firmware.

I haven't used the newest firmware with one, but it's not the mapping or responsiveness that really gets me. It's the uncomfortable handling. The grip aims the wrong way and my wrists don't like the angle. As far as mapping goes, I'm sure there's a lot of the buttons that can be mapped, but there's not enough buttons for my thumb to slide around and poke. It's one of my biggest complaints about my Canon 1Dx too - having to use the other hand to reach on top or around to change settings. Kinda hard to do when hanging on a ladder or wall with one hand available and my eye glued to the finder. With the H bodies, I can do much more by poking the two under the thumb, change metering or compensation on the prism, or slide my shutter finger to the menu button if absolutely necessary.

Though I will say that the one redeeming factor for the P1 body is the proper, functional WLF.

 

[ThdeDude]

Both HB and P1 have been pretty quiet on the product front. Even the IQ4 is going on 3.5 years old now. The XF older than that. All we can do is speculate.

There seems to be a general consensus that the H-System is currently not being further developed, and that future further development is unlikely.

In March 2021 Sony released the 128MP IMX661 sensor diagonal 55 mm (Type 3.4) (44x33mm) which apparently has a global shutter. A diagonal 66.7 mm (Type 4.2) CMOS version thereof (IMX611?) surely can't be too far away.

Global shutter would be a good reason for P1 to release a IQ5. Many would upgrade for that feature.

 

[NicolasCooper]

Why is the H6X sold out for several weeks now?
Is it discontinued? No shop in Germany has it in stock. Not that I can afford it atm though....

Edit: Just to clarify, I meant it is sold out in the Hasselblad online Store.

 

[georgecleansman]

The question is, if there is still a market for a possible new HD7 camera with 150 MP. The image quality of the HD6-100c is excellent. The lenses designed by Hasselblad and manufactured by Fuji are also very good. Sure Phase One has in the XF camera more features. But what does a user really need?

 

[drevil]

The question is, if there is still a market for a possible new HD7 camera with 150 MP. The image quality of the HD6-100c is excellent. The lenses designed by Hasselblad and manufactured by Fuji are also very good. Sure Phase One has in the XF camera more features. But what does a user really need?

i am very happy with my contax 645, and all i use, aperture ring, and exposure dial, sometimes exposure lock(when i am not in A mode), and the power on button of the digital back.
thats why i love the system so much, simple as can be

 

[BFD]

The only "true" Fuji-blad was the H1/H2 film bodies. Those were rebadged Fuji GX645AF and while the lenses were made by Fuji, a few of the early ones were a shared design with HB owning most of the patents. There are versions of the early lenses that were available with Fuji EBC as the coating and marketed/sold by Fuji. Fuji making the lenses is no different than Cosina making many of the modern Zeiss lenses, including the Otus line. In that case, it's Zeiss equipment, design, and supervision in a Cosina factory.

There's nothing wrong with Fuji glass - it's good stuff. But, I agree with many that I'd never own a Fuji body since I despise and have no use for mirrorless cameras. They just don't work in the environments and style that I shoot. I'd never own an X1D or 907 either. If I was hobbying around, they'd probably be ok, but for production work, they've gotten in my way every time the few times that I've attempted to use them. And EVF/LV is just completely dysfunctional in a lot of the low light, fast capture environments I've been in.

Yet, I also can't stand the P1 XF system. The bodies just hurt to use and are way too clunky (both physically and in ergonomics). While I appreciate the features they offer on the bodies, using a swipey menu to reach items doesn't work well with me. I prefer to be able to blindly reach a button and do what needs done without taking my eye off the optical finder.

So for me, my H5/6 collection will have to do for the next many years. I'll have to start hoarding extra bodies for parts as I usually fix my own stuff anyways.

Curios to what your "environments and style" is that a mirrorless camera would not work in.

 

[docholliday]

Curios to what your "environments and style" is that a mirrorless camera would not work in.

A lot of fast action shooting, very dark studios, and other work that requires an OVF. EVF is blinding and destroys vision looking at the finder to the set. Other shoots require split second timing to catch the shot and keeping an eye glued to an OVF works perfectly.