Hasselblad vs GFX system

[marchaers]

Hey everyone! Dang I didn't receive any email updates and had no clue the thread kept going. First off thanks so much for the responses so far and I'm happy to see someone else also benefited from this thread.

To give a quick update, the camera has been sent in for a full service check by the current owner (he's paying for it) so I'm still waiting for an update for that. I've also been in touch with the dealer that sold the H6D originally and they'll be able to transfer the service over to me personally with the camera. Great news. Other thing that I found is a great photography insurance that will cover it's original value (even when bought second hand).

So far the plan is to buy the H6D if it comes back checked out and working well (will do another test when he's got it again).

I've already acquired the HC 80mm 2.8 lens for a great price so that's that lol.

I'm looking forward to owning the camera (if not this one I'll probably opt for another H6D or H5D combo. When it's here I'm definitely going to share some first images. I'll also probably make a YouTube video about it explaining why I made this choice as a professional with so many other options on the market right now.

Have a great weekend guys! I'll make sure I check back in more often lol.

 

[MGrayson]

Satisfaction or dissatisfaction with color usually and most likely has to do with the color profile used in the RAW editor. If you've used various RAW editors with your Fuji and you're still not satisfied with the color, you should probably create your own color profile and that will most likely cure all the color ills you've been experiencing.

I couldn't agree more. Most camera reviews are really default profile reviews. But I have never managed to improve on the profiles that came with the converter. It's quite hard (for me) to get something that works in more than one situation. As it stands, I only have the Leica S system for MF, and I'm happy with its profiles in both LR and Capture 1 as starting points, so I'm fine.

 

[Abstraction]

I couldn't agree more. Most camera reviews are really default profile reviews. But I have never managed to improve on the profiles that came with the converter. It's quite hard (for me) to get something that works in more than one situation. As it stands, I only have the Leica S system for MF, and I'm happy with its profiles in both LR and Capture 1 as starting points, so I'm fine.

I remember some time ago, Erik Kahferr used Lumariver to create a custom profile for Lightroom for Canon 5DS R. If memory serves, there was this huge row about the camera's color when it came out of Lightroom. It turned out that the initial Lightroom profile sucked and the color coming out of Lightroom was a bit funky. Erik created a custom profile that he used in Lightroom and that cured the problem. Funny enough, I think that Lightroom's mishandling of the color profile adversely affected the perception and perhaps the sales of that camera.

 

[gme2815]

I remember some time ago, Erik Kahferr used Lumariver to create a custom profile for Lightroom for Canon 5DS R. If memory serves, there was this huge row about the camera's color when it came out of Lightroom. It turned out that the initial Lightroom profile sucked and the color coming out of Lightroom was a bit funky. Erik created a custom profile that he used in Lightroom and that cured the problem. Funny enough, I think that Lightroom's mishandling of the color profile adversely affected the perception and perhaps the sales of that camera.

Lumariver custom profiles are excellent. They have made quite an improvement to the colors out of my GFX 100 thru Lightroom.

 

[marchaers]

Lumariver custom profiles are excellent. They have made quite an improvement to the colors out of my GFX 100 thru Lightroom.

Yeah, I've also got a colorchecker passport not too long ago which allows me to create custom profiles in Lightroom after the fact so I think a large part of the color variation is solved. So now it'll all come down to color depth. With 16 bit shooting shouldn't be that much of a difference.

Haven't heard any updates about the Hasselblad yet. If it's a complicated matter (either with the hardware or the photographer) I'll for sure pull the trigger on the gfx100(s).

Still waiting! Looking forward to sharing what it's going to be lol, because I'm also very curious (and impatient) to see what it'll be.

- M

 

[marchaers]

Update! Sadly the H6D-100C is off. Pretty bummed out about it but the issues weren't solved in a way I'd feel confident spending almost €10000 euros on a system. For now I'll keep my eyes peeled on two options:

1: I'm going to wait for the rumoured GFX-50S II and see what it does. Looks like it's going to be announced in a week or two. I like the lower pixel density on the 50mp sensor. But I'll wait with pulling the trigger and compare the 50S II to the 100S.
2: Other option is still finding a 'full frame' digital back set (phase one or Hasselblad) - depending on the condition, warranty etc.

If I get to buying a camera I'll make sure to post here with a few nice sample photos. Till that time comes (in about 2 - 4 weeks) I'd still like to thank you all for the help, really appreciate it. I'm going to stick around here on this forum. Really nice place to chat and learn.

Have a great day everyone.

 

[bernardl]

A few inputs as a former H6D-100c owner (bought new used 3 years) now using a P1 XF + IQ4-150 (after having gone through a 100 Trichro) and also works with a GFX100s and Z7II. I know... I am a camera collector.

I liked quite a few things about the H6D-100c:
- Colors and overall image quality
- touch UI, it may indeed be the best in the industry
- stable platform overall
- the body is more compact and lighter than the XF
- I just like the Hasselblad brand, it's history and the overall image of the brand

What I didn't like:
- it took 18 months for Hasselblad to deliver the functional scope that was supposed to be part of the camera at launch
- there are some great H lenses (28mm, 50mm II, 210mm, 300mm) but some are pretty average (35mm, 110mm, 120mm II,...) or at least my copies were (I know some people think the 120mm II is great)
- lack of basic modern function such as auto ISO and auto WB makes shooting on the fly more challenging than it should be
- no support in C1 Pro
- focus recompose works much better on the XF body than on the H6D-100c and makes it possible to really get sharply focused images after recomposing. This only works for static subjects obviously but is still significant
- platform without clear future with zero lens investment in years. I really wanted to believe that Hasselblad had the best platform and the potential to release a mirrorless 645 H7D but nothing has materialized and I now think it's never going to happen.

The P1 platform is overall significantly better I find. In fact it's close to perfect except for some remaining small but annoying bugs (camera not triggering in some specific usage patterns possibly user error I need to speak with P1). The lenses are better, the colors through C1 Pro are even better,... the functional scope is much wider and P1 keeps innovating in useful ways (best implementation of focus stacking, frame averaging, raw histogram although there is more work needed here,...). The P1 is also great for tethered shooting which is now more important for me as I use it to digitize 8x10 negatives. The strong focus of P1 on cultural heritage is also valuable through their relationship with Digital Transitions.

On the other hand, the IQ4 platform redesign (basically everything is new compared to the IQ3) has been painful though and in some ways the IQ4 is still not at the level where the IQ3 was. The main differentiator though, beside the slight jump in resolution to 150mp is the more tech camera friendly sensor.

The Fuji GFX100s is a jack of all trades. It does everything very well but nothing great compared to the best players in each area:
- it's small for "MF" but much larger than the excellent Z7II (in particular the lenses)
- Image quality is very good but behind P1
- AF is great for MF but far behind the Nikon with moving subjects and, surprisingly, more of a pain to use in the studio that the P1 XF
- the lenses are good but not great when you have used the best. I personnally find the Nikon S lenses to be better overall (but it's not surprising considering how good they are)
- The colors are very nice, especially skin tones, but not significantly more so than the Nikon and P1

I now use my GFX100s more for landscape because it's more compact, but the GFX100 saw very little usage when I owned it.

If Nikon comes up with a 80mp Z8 I may decide to sell the GFX kit. We will see.

The Hasselblad X1D is appealing because of the neat design and lenses plus the leaf shutters. For slow photography I think it's probably a better system than the GFX. But then again, will Hasselblad continue to release new products as part of DJI group?

Cheers,
Bernard

 

[vjbelle]

I think you have nailed it Bernard, especially with regards to Fuji. lenses for the Fuji 100s are the weak point from MPOV. Very difficult to get good copies and the wides are very iffy. For sure Sony will come out with an 80-100MP sensor before Nikon and if they do I will be first in line to purchase. The major strength for Sony is the multitude of great lenses by various vendors. 2022 should be a great year for new offerings.

Victor B.

 

[Hasslebad]

Update! Sadly the H6D-100C is off. Pretty bummed out about it but the issues weren't solved in a way I'd feel confident spending almost €10000 euros on a system. For now I'll keep my eyes peeled on two options:

1: I'm going to wait for the rumoured GFX-50S II and see what it does. Looks like it's going to be announced in a week or two. I like the lower pixel density on the 50mp sensor. But I'll wait with pulling the trigger and compare the 50S II to the 100S.
2: Other option is still finding a 'full frame' digital back set (phase one or Hasselblad) - depending on the condition, warranty etc.

If I get to buying a camera I'll make sure to post here with a few nice sample photos. Till that time comes (in about 2 - 4 weeks) I'd still like to thank you all for the help, really appreciate it. I'm going to stick around here on this forum. Really nice place to chat and learn.

Have a great day everyone.

Would love to see your work with whatever medium format camera you end up buying. This has been an interesting thread to follow. Thank you for sharing.

 

[PSS]

I also agree with Bernard, the GFX competes with FF mirrorless, I don't necessarily blame the lenses for that, the ones I had were great, especially for the price. If I had money to burn I would own a phase XF system because I think at this point it produces the best files available today but I don't need it and the price/performance ratio makes it not really interesting to me.
the H system is dead. does not mean a H6 100 at a good price isn't worth it but I would think long and hard because IMO the X checks all necessary boxes for me at a lower price.
I firmly believe Hasselblad/DJI will keep coming out with new stuff but I don't see a H7 or new lenses, it makes no sense, leave that tiny sliver of a market to phase.

 

[bernardl]

I think you have nailed it Bernard, especially with regards to Fuji. lenses for the Fuji 100s are the weak point from MPOV. Very difficult to get good copies and the wides are very iffy. For sure Sony will come out with an 80-100MP sensor before Nikon and if they do I will be first in line to purchase. The major strength for Sony is the multitude of great lenses by various vendors. 2022 should be a great year for new offerings.

Indeed, Sony may be first to market, but I have sold my last FE lens last week so I will not re-invest in a Sony mirrorless line up, hence my mention of Nikon. But agreed completely, pretty much the same thing can be said of Sony if that's the system you are invested in.

Cheers,
Bernard

 

[sixby45]

Sad to hear that the H6D didnt work out, hopefully another opportunity will present itself - and will be the right fit

 

[marchaers]

Well alright friends, finally an update and yes yes... A purchase has been made!

I want to keep the story short but I know myself well enough that I probably can't lol.

After the H6D not being an option I kind of felt at a loss and I kept thinking about what would be the best acquisition for my work. So after going back and forth 1000 times - I stopped and asked myself. What do I need? What do I want? How do I shoot?

I need a bigger sensor, whether that's 44x33 or 53x40. I found a good deal on an H4D-50 but I just couldn't imagine myself fumbling around with firewire adapters and the overall fear of a camera being unsupported. It was still going to cost me over 3 grand which could get me many other things if I stepped down in sensor size. I don't need the big sensor. I want it.

So the next thing I thought about was how I shot. That's what made me realise an H or IQ body would never work for my style. I am a big user of 'manual focus assist' and my work heavily relies on it. I barely ever miss a shot, and because of it never need to shoot much or double check. I've perfected that style of shooting and I know my clients need no more. I need a mirrorless camera. That narrowed it down a lot. I knew I had to get either a GFX or X1D system. I also decided that I don't need 100 megapixels. It's overkill for my work, even though it's fine art every now and then. I'll never get the best use out of it. It's again, not a need but merely a want.

What remained was the GFX 50S/R (and the now announced 50S II) and the X1D I/II. I really weirdly feel more connected to the Hasselblad brand and it's heritage. I know it doesn't really matter much, but knowing that the sensors in all of these cameras are essentially the same I leaned towards an X1D I or II. I kept browsing the internet, looking for deals and contemplating buying new. Until this happened: A new listing popped up, a (used) X1D 4116 edition. Being sold off for a CRAZY low price. Why? The LCD had a few spots and one SD slot's spring didn't work 'as new'. After all this back and forth nonsense that I went through every night - I figured. I should step in cheap, no risk. Good resale value, not going in too deep.

He asked 1900 euros for it. He lives super close to my studio, so we'll always be able to keep in touch when something goes south with the camera. Other then deciding myself - fate kind of decided for me. So knowing that the autofocus sucks - it won't matter for me. I still had the HC 80mm 2.8 (no fly-by wire nonsense) and saw that it could be adapted with the €350,- X H adapter to give me all of the functionality of a native XCD lens.

So here we are. I finally made a choice. I did my first test shoot today. Enjoy some sample images and 100% crops. I thought my A7R was good, but damn. There's something about these images. I'm so happy.

(Forgive me for these are screenshots - I got a bit lazy after a long day lol)

PS: Keeping it short didn't work out that great LOL.

 

[georgecleansman]

I love my H6D-100c because of the best colors I had ever seen

 

[marchaers]

I love my H6D-100c because of the best colors I had ever seen

Yeah the color science is also why I ended up with the x1d. It's too bad that the 100c I tested was so faulty. Otherwise I'd probably have one now - though still in hindsight a good choice to go mirrorless concidering my way of shooting.

I envy your big sensor goodness lol.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Did u check whether it is a stolen item?

 

[marchaers]

Did u check whether it is a stolen item?

It's a professional photographer (with public website & portfolio) + I got the invoice and picked it up at his studio. All good .

If anything smells off I typically steer very clear. He had a hard time selling it, not alot or people hunting for medium format - especially if it's not a perfect specimen. To be completely honest I think some people have too much cash and don't care much for their old (expensive) toys.

 

[MGrayson]

"Professional photographer" and "too much cash" are seldom seen together!

 

[PSS]

IMO the 50mpix sensor in the X1D and GFX is still the best one out there, still good enough for fuji to come out with a new body and the original (and limited ed) X1D still have the same IQ. AF sucks with GFX and all cameras with that sensor and the 100mpix version isn't that much better either.
so as a image capture device you still have a top body. and lots of options for lenses. I would still get the 45P to see how good the XCD glass is.

 

[marchaers]

IMO the 50mpix sensor in the X1D and GFX is still the best one out there, still good enough for fuji to come out with a new body and the original (and limited ed) X1D still have the same IQ. AF sucks with GFX and all cameras with that sensor and the 100mpix version isn't that much better either.
so as a image capture device you still have a top body. and lots of options for lenses. I would still get the 45P to see how good the XCD glass is.

I was coincidentally looking at the 45 today! I would love to have a nice 'walkaround' for when we take a weekend off with the kids. I always have an equivalent of 35mm and 50mm in all my kits so that would compliment the full frame and apsc gear I have.