Hasselblad X2D coming soon to a divorce near you

[Paul Spinnler]

Your link is to a dealer (Camera West) website in San Francisco. If you go to Leica's website, they don't indicate where lenses are made or who manufactures them. They don't need to do so. It's their name on the product and they are the ones that stand behind the quality and performance.

So, if a lens is made for them in Japan or by them in Portugal, it doesn't change the fact that Leica is the company that is selling it and standing behind it with their name and reputation — and no one is being misled. The raw optical glass could be from China, it's still their lens.

LOL. You clearly are not aware of Leica's marketing. You can buy a Portuguese version and a German version of some of their lenses. The German version typically has a mark-up of a few hundred dollars. The "made in" is etched on the lens and believe it or not, but people have preferences and they sell a lot of German made lenses still despite the mark-up.

The Leica price list has both lenses and if I walk into my Leica store I can ask for a Portoguese or a German Summilux 50 Asph. Some people want all their Leica lenses to be made in Germany. Customer preferences are real and some are willing to pay for German, more expensive labour and some are not ...

 

[TechTalk]

Lol. I am seeing that all leaks for the “handmade Swedish camera” are coming from China and that you are trying to paint this romantic picture of the blossoming of Swedish camera manufacturing under the gentle support from DJI.

I'm interested in facts not online imagination and conjecture. On the multiple occasions where I have mentioned DJI's contributions, I've provided details and evidence.

But, I don't think this conversation is going to travel a path of enlightenment — so, I'm not going to travel any further down it with you.

 

[Photon42]

The question is how you define “handmade” - it can mean assembly of a pre made kit which comes delivered from Shenzen - it is a grey zone and often also a debate in watch manufacturing; in Switzerland for example they expressly introduced regulations to stipulate what still constitutes a “Swiss made” watch, ie which parts of production need to happen on Swiss ground for the watch to be qualified as Swiss made.

If for example the “handmade” comes down to plopping together the sensor array with a few case pieces then it arguably is a far cry from being solely built in Sweden.

It just strikes me that all leaks come from China including the brochure above. If for marketing reasons they still do a final assembly of pre made pieces on Swedish territory to not be misleading in the marketing this arguably then would be at least a grey zone of sorts, but given the amount of leaks it seems that DJI is playing a huge part in the production of this camera - which would mean a milestone for Chinese camera manufacturing and another step in the evolution of its photo industry.

 

[Photon42]

He's doing a followup about an hour after the X2D event to give his thoughts to which I'll also give a listen.

I saw that, too ... Youtube seems to force people even more to make super bold statements about the future and what is completely unacceptable. And then ...

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I'm interested in facts not online imagination and conjecture. On the multiple occasions where I have mentioned DJI's contributions, I've provided details and evidence.

But, I don't think this conversation is going to travel a path of enlightenment — so, I'm not going to travel any further down it with you.

You are citing names under patent applications and are stalking engineer job profiles and are then romanticising their cooperation. You have no idea how people really think in Hassy's HQ, how some of the old remaining employees feel about DJI and how day to day this partnership is. Could be great, could be frustrating, but no one except the involved people really know. It is just a fact that this cooperation led to a great camera at a comparatively cheap price pnt which marks a new level of sophistication for China's camera industry. It is a milestone. It is to the benefit of the industry as a 100 megapixel camera at 8k will keep the competition afoot and rein in a bit the pricing for the next batch of MFD cameras.

If now at Leica they price the S4 at 10k instead of 18k because of the new Hassy it is a really good thing. They also set a high benchmark with these specs which makes it exciting to see how the response will be of the other manufacturers, namely Fuji and Leica.

 

[Photon42]

I hope they don’t try to use the ibis for sensor cleaning. The frequency is way too slow to dislodge dust.

Doesn't Nikon do that with the Z7 (and maybe others, too)? I have no idea if it can work, actually.

 

[TechTalk]

The rule “if the leaks come from country X, then the camera is made in country X” is strange.

In this case, country X has a population of over 1.4 Billion people. More than half of them are 39 years of age and younger and active on social media. Their population dwarfs that of the EU, U.S., and Japan combined. If you want rumors about any brand of camera, you can find quite a lot of them that originate on social media there.

 

[SrMphoto]

BTW, in 2019 NickT, the admin of hasselbladdigitalforum, shared the information that X1D II was actually made in China, but he did not provide any source.
It may be that there is a legal difference between “Handmade in” and “Made in”.
That said, Paul’s reasoning still does not makes sense to me.
I do not care whether X2D is made in Vietnam, China, or Sweden, as long as it keeps Hasselblad’s DNA. We will soon see if that is the case.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

In this case, country X has a population of over 1.4 Billion people. More than half of them are 39 years of age and younger and active on social media. Their population dwarfs that of the EU, U.S., and Japan combined. If you want rumors about any brand of camera, you can find quite a lot of them that originate on social media there.

Well it is more like the growing drone manufacturer in low wage country X bought the struggling high end camera manufacturer in high-wage country Y and now a few years later parts of R&D and manufacturing moved into low-wage country X allowing for a cheaper, better camera products?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

BTW, in 2019 NickT, the admin of hasselbladdigitalforum, shared the information that X1D II was actually made in China, but he did not provide any source.
It may be that there is a legal difference between “Handmade in” and “Made in”.
That said, Paul’s reasoning still does not makes sense to me.
I do not care whether X2D is made in Vietnam, China, or Sweden, as long as it keeps Hasselblad’s DNA. We will soon see if that is the case.

It will be a fantastic camera I am sure and I am in fact stoked by:

a) 8K price point setting a benchmark for the marketplace
b) compatibility with the Alpa system via X adapter as I have a lot of Alpa gear already and am curious to see how the BSI sensor tech and the HNCS hold up vis a vis Phase One

 

[Photon42]

Hasselblad's manufacturing is probably more Swedish than the iPhone's process being US American. I am getting more and more interested in the new camera btw

 

[Paul Spinnler]

BTW, in 2019 NickT, the admin of hasselbladdigitalforum, shared the information that X1D II was actually made in China, but he did not provide any source.
It may be that there is a legal difference between “Handmade in” and “Made in”.
That said, Paul’s reasoning still does not makes sense to me.
I do not care whether X2D is made in Vietnam, China, or Sweden, as long as it keeps Hasselblad’s DNA. We will soon see if that is the case.

8K is not a lot with the raging inflation across supply chains and with rising labour prices; and if you include all the margins required such as 15%-20% dealer margins, Sony's sensor margins, shipping, etc. it is almost necessary to have Chinese cost structure to make a really profitable business out of these cameras. CaNikon still sell orders of magnitude more cameras than Hassy ...

 

[Alkibiades]

The Alpa X adapter seems to work with rodenstock lenses from 32 mm to 180 mm, is that right?
If it is true it would be a real alternative to classic back.
I wonder if cambo or Arca Swiss could do such adapter for their R-line and WRS cameras.
unfortunately I use these both systems.

 

[MGrayson]

Doesn't Nikon do that with the Z7 (and maybe others, too)? I have no idea if it can work, actually.

Now that I think on it, the GFX 100 never had dust issues, so IBIS need not be a killer.
It was bad on the Sony A7II I had.

 

[TechTalk]

I think on the contrary that some posters try to paint this romantic picture of the appearance of harmonious and prosperous cooperation

you are trying to paint this romantic picture of the blossoming of Swedish camera manufacturing under the gentle support from DJI.

I am just against romanticising this partnership as I am against demonizing it because of DJI's involvement.

you are romanticising this as Sweden's new spring in camera manufacturing.

You are citing names under patent applications and are stalking engineer job profiles and are then romanticising their cooperation.

I'm not sure what it is that you find romantic about engineers collaborating on products and projects or a discussion of those collaborations. I guess individuals can see romance wherever their emotions suggest.

I don't find engineering collaborations particularly romantic. Perhaps that's because I'm acquainted with, friends with, or related to enough of them to see their research and results as stimulating and interesting, but have observed their interactions with one another to be more prosaic than poetic. Maybe that's just how it seems with the ones that I know personally.

But, I am for goddamn sure that I am not stalking anyone. Your insult is as unwarranted as it is unwelcome.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The Alpa X adapter seems to work with rodenstock lenses from 32 mm to 180 mm, is that right?
If it is true it would be a real alternative to classic back.
I wonder if cambo or Arca Swiss could do such adapter for their R-line and WRS cameras.
unfortunately I use these both systems.

I am not sure the very wide angles work, but probably 40 or 50 and above if you have a short barrel lens.

 

[vieri]

...

a) 8K price point setting a benchmark for the marketplace

...

How so? GFX 100s at 6k: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=fujifilm gfx 100s&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps

Best regards,

Vieri

 

[TechTalk]

The Alpa X adapter seems to work with rodenstock lenses from 32 mm to 180 mm, is that right?
If it is true it would be a real alternative to classic back.
I wonder if cambo or Arca Swiss could do such adapter for their R-line and WRS cameras.
unfortunately I use these both systems.

Alpa has a chart listing any limitations for their HXD Adapter Combinations with various lenses and mounts

"The overview shows the combinations that are achievable with the ALPA HxD adapter in various situations and combinations. Search for the line with the ALPA or third-party lens type in the first column and then a column with the camera type/combination you are looking for. In the crossing of both, you find the additional element(s) you need or what can be achieved. Gray areas are feasible and make the most sense; white areas are feasible but rather not universally applicable."

 

[Paul Spinnler]

How so? GFX 100s at 6k: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=fujifilm gfx 100s&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps

Best regards,

Vieri

Sorry, I had in mind we were at 8k for 100 megapixels, wasn't aware we are already this low. Megapixels aside, it isn't really comparable in terms of build quality, no? I remember having the 50S in hand at one point and found it felt quite less premium that the X1D in terms of build and materials.

 

[Thyl]

Probably, Hasselblad's engineering manpower is simply not sufficient for all ongoing projects. Help from DJi might alleviate this problem. I still believe that they will also develop a 150 MP sensor unit for the H system, and maybe also an H7 with a Nikon flash system. As far as I can tell, the sensor for the 100 MP unit for the H6 is no longer actively promoted by Sony.

Whether this means that Sony has lost interest in larger sensors, I can't tell, but the smaller 50 MP sensor which is used by HB, Fuji, and Pentax, is also gone from Sony's website.