Help Deciding purchasing 4x5 Film Camera as it compares to Medium Format Digital

[rollsman44]

Before I make the investment in 4x5 Camera, my questions is : I currently shoot with a Hasselblad X1D2 and was thinking of getting into 4X5 camera for Color Prints.
I would mainly be using it for Indoor Portraits and some Landscapes.
I shot film many years ago before Digital( Hassy 500 C/M ).
Any suggestions if I should continue with my X1D2. Its more my curiousity than anything else. I would need to be able to shoot Flash Off Camera.
About the same setup I use now just with a 4X5 Color Film and Camera.
Thank you,

 

[Godfrey]

With the quality of color capture that the Hasselblad X1D-II represents, I would not bother with the notion of using a 4x5 film camera unless there was something extraordinarily specific in film that you are looking for. Because the quality of color capture has been so good with high-resolution digital for so long, I have not exposed a single frame of color film (other than to process and use as B&W only) in almost 28 years—I continue to shoot film, but ONLY ONLY black & white film. Processing and printing color film is, for me, one of the worst PITA efforts in Photography.

Shooting "flash off-camera" with the X1D-II should be the same as doing it with almost anything else: buy a nice RF flash trigger and run the flash off the camera on a light stand. That and a good hand-held flash meter to evaluate exposure will net superb results. I'd invest in those things, and a good printing solution, long before looking at a 4x5 film camera.

G

 

[DDudenbostel]

A lot has changed in the past 23 years since digital capture became practical. I literally shot several hundred rolls and sheets of E-6 film monthly before going digital. I had my own E-6 lab in my studio plus my community had 3 pro level E-6 and C-41 labs within 15 minutes of the studio.

When digital came in they all went away. The closest pro lab is 200 miles away now in Nashville or Atlanta. Film is harder to get and the variety of emulsions are limited and film and processing are high.

If you want to process E-6 the chemistry available is very limited unless you’re willing to buy large commercial quantities. What chemistry is available is pretty bad.

I had a half dozen rolls of 120 Fuji and bought a couple of rolls of the new Ektachrome. I exposed and ran them myself and the results were nothing on the order of what I used to get with Kodaks E-6 chemistry. I was seriously disappointed. As much as I love transparency film it’s just too much of a pain and too limiting so film photography is now B&W only and digital is color.

 

[rollsman44]

A lot has changed in the past 23 years since digital capture became practical. I literally shot several hundred rolls and sheets of E-6 film monthly before going digital. I had my own E-6 lab in my studio plus my community had 3 pro level E-6 and C-41 labs within 15 minutes of the studio.

When digital came in they all went away. The closest pro lab is 200 miles away now in Nashville or Atlanta. Film is harder to get and the variety of emulsions are limited and film and processing are high.

If you want to process E-6 the chemistry available is very limited unless you’re willing to buy large commercial quantities. What chemistry is available is pretty bad.

I had a half dozen rolls of 120 Fuji and bought a couple of rolls of the new Ektachrome. I exposed and ran them myself and the results were nothing on the order of what I used to get with Kodaks E-6 chemistry. I was seriously disappointed. As much as I love transparency film it’s just too much of a pain and too limiting so film photography is now B&W only and digital is color.

 

[rollsman44]

Thank you so Much. I just wanted someone else to confirm my beliefs about going with film. I appreciate it

 

[rollsman44]

Thank you

 

[daz7]

You can use digital backs on a 4x5 camera, too (that's what I do) to have the best of both worlds.

 

[JeffK]

In my head I I gave up shooting 4x5 film back in 2019. In reality I hadn't shot 4x5 in a few years and I still had 16 sheets of undeveloped film. They're still undeveloped. Once used Phase One Achromatic gear hit a price point I could manage I got into that. Now I can use large format gear and achieve the black and white resolution I wanted. Even better resolution now. I wasn't a good wet darkroom printer and my scanner wasn't top end. So a digital back and large format inkjet printer with six shades of black have helped me get the results I wanted.

 

[P. Chong]

Using a 4x5 has a totally different feel from anything smaller. For me, the slow, methodical process brings out a clarity of thought into the composition, selection of technical parameters like aperture, shutter, planes of focus, etc. that makes it very gratifying. It has little to do with resolution, or sharpness, or other parameters which are important only to the photographer, though these can also be made as good as anyone would like...its about the technique. The look and feel of a large format photograph is different, and to me it can convey more of the sense of being there, looking through the eyes of the photographer than with any other format. And feels vastly more satisfying (and slower) to work on my Sinar than with any other camera. Including the Alpa STC, or my day to day use GFX.



Working with an off camera flash is easy, even with a 30 year old 4x5. Just connect the wireless trigger to the X flash sync port of the lens, and off you go! You will need a digital camera to set flash power, or a flash meter.

Developing film is another story. While BW is easy, colour developing is not as straightforward. C41 and E6 chemistry can be bought and can be used to work from home. I use a Stearman Press ST-445 daylight tank, which only need to be loaded in the dark (I use a changing bag). BW chemistry works at 20C, but in Singapore weather, it means an ice bath is needed. For C41 and E6, temperature ranges needed are more narrow. But these days with inexpensive sous vide kits, 40C can be easily attained with excellent accuracy and stability. For me, the big problem is to ship the chemistry, which are considered dangerous goods, and most makers do not ship by air, and out of country. If you are in the US or EU, this problem may not apply to you. Luckily, I still have a local lab who will do 4x5 development, BW, C41, or E6. Expensive, but I don't really shoot much large format. The image above was shot on Sinar X with Nikkor W 180mm/f5.6 lens. Film stock is Shanghai GP3, exposed as ISO50, developed with Ilford ID-11 as ISO100.

 

[MartinN]

If you are a bit uncertain of why to use large format you should probably not bother. Also, MF and roll film is so much easier, and faster and .... than LF. However, if you really want to experience the whole process, and it is more of a hobby than granted results, then you could consider getting into LF.

 

[Alkibiades]

if you want to shoot portraits with 4x5 inch you need a camera like Linhof technika, where you dont need to use the focusing screen but the view finder. Like a big like ...
Linhof technika is even smaller than the most MF cameras and allows you also the use of roll film adapters from 6x6 to 6x12 ( even special 6x17 cm one).
For portraits you need a coupeld lens, with the coupling cam.

 

[DDudenbostel]

You can use digital backs on a 4x5 camera, too (that's what I do) to have the best of both worlds.

This is really an awkward way to do a simple job. I used my Hasselblad CFV39 on both my 501cm and a Linhof Technikardan 23. The Linhof was a really sweet little system for product and architecture but outside of that I’d use the Hasselblad where everything was seamless and shooting digital was like shooting on film.

 

[DDudenbostel]

if you want to shoot portraits with 4x5 inch you need a camera like Linhof technika, where you dont need to use the focusing screen but the view finder. Like a big like ...
Linhof technika is even smaller than the most MF cameras and allows you also the use of roll film adapters from 6x6 to 6x12 ( even special 6x17 cm one).
For portraits you need a coupeld lens, with the coupling cam.

Im not sure what technika you’re talking about, I owned two Technika 23’s, a Technika 70 and a Master Technika 4x5 I used for nearly thirty years and none are smaller than a Hasselblad. All but the 23’s had coupled RF’s with cammed lenses. The Technikardan are great but to do work up close you have a substantial degree of parallax between the VF and taking lens plus the RF focusing patch may not be where you want to focus on so you’d be constantly having to recompose each time you focus. Sure there’s a parallax correction on the VF but it only tilts the VF down and there’s still several inches that the VF is out of alignment with the taking lens.

I’ve shot many portraits with a view camera. If the subject is fairly static as in a formal portrait it’s very easy to do. I apprenticed in a commercial studio in the early 70’s and that’s how we did the majority of portraits then in the mid 70’s I worked with the Department of Energy and all portraits were with a Calumet monorail. No problem at all. In fact a view type portrait camera was how the old guys did it for a century or so.

 

[baudolino]

Not much use revisiting the film vs. digital debate. If what you need is perfect images shot efficiently, with maximum post-processing flexibility, then MFD is the way to go. Too much effort and fail potential with film. On the other hand, there has been a renaissance of film, with younger generations preferring the analog workflow and idiosyncrasies as a contrast to their day-to-day digital life. With the notion that film and paper prints are somehow more "real" than digital. There is a difference in look between the two mediums, depending on format (colour, perspective). Some of it can be replicated in post processing or through shooting multiple images and then splicing them in PS like you would do for "panorama" shots (if you want to approximate the LF perspective). With LF, some of the difference in portrait look is also because of the necessary static posing of the subjects - whether this is your cup of tea is up to you. On the other hand, it can be quite fun to shoot portraits with LF - you get something to talk about and perhaps make the session more interesting for the sitter. You can see many obvious "film look" images nowadays in magazines like Vogue or various lifestyle publications, typically to evoke nostalgia for times past. That much for the why. As to how, especially for colour: the diminishing number of professional labs may not be a problem. With some investment, you can process at home, e.g. with the following processor https://www.filmomat.eu/. There is a number of online sources for film and chemistry (https://www.retrocamera.be/en/). For scanning, you can get the necessary tools from https://www.negative.supply and other places. For converting negatives, you can use https://www.negativelabpro.com, a plugin for Lightroom. It all takes some money, time and learning - is it worth it for you? Flash sync off camera is no problem - just use a radio trigger that allows to plug in a sync cable and insert the other end of the cable in the X-sync socket on the shutter. As for shutters, I find the self-cocking variety (Prontor Professional) efficient when shooting portraits, as they eliminate part of the usual LF "dance". In summary it can be done. As with many things, this can probably be viewed as whether you like to amuse yourself with another kind of toy that does similar things differently. Like contemplating if you should buy a Porsche 911 when you already have a Range Rover. The good thing about 4x5 cameras and lenses is that they are inexpensive nowadays and do not lose value like digital equipment, so no regrets if you don't use them very often - they will work in 10 years as well as they do today, as long as there is film available.

 

[rollsman44]

WOW.... A lot of Valuable information. I will have to digest this and see if Film 4x5 is still on my Wish List.

Just another question: Since 4x5 is sheet film and not roll film and I want to take test shots to see the proper exposure on Color Film is there any way other than taking the test shots on the 4X5 sheet film and mark the settings taken with each exposure or can I use my Hassy X1D2 with the same ISO as the film and get a close exposure as opposed to using the sheet film ?
Thank you all

 

[MartinN]

The light is the same, so if the ISO is the the same, the exposure is the same. But the contrast not. Reversal sheet film is very contrasty and picky, where color negative is forgiving, and black and white usually as well. I would not pay for color sheet film, the prices are exorbitant. But black and white is affordable.

 

[baudolino]

WOW.... A lot of Valuable information. I will have to digest this and see if Film 4x5 is still on my Wish List.

Just another question: Since 4x5 is sheet film and not roll film and I want to take test shots to see the proper exposure on Color Film is there any way other than taking the test shots on the 4X5 sheet film and mark the settings taken with each exposure or can I use my Hassy X1D2 with the same ISO as the film and get a close exposure as opposed to using the sheet film ?
Thank you all

There used to be 4x5 Polaroid but the film is no longer available (other than expired at exaggerated prices on eBay, with unreliable results due to age). You can measure exposure the "old fashioned" way, using a light/flash meter (use incident metering from subject with the dome facing camera, but also check from the direction of your light(s) and opposing the key light, to understand how many f.stops difference and what your shadows will look like and if your film can handle the contrast). Alternatively, of course, you can use a digital camera to test exposure (but be careful about contrast - the Hasselblad has 15 stops of dynamic range and film may have about 5). Set the same ISO as the film, same aperture as on your LF camera lens (take note about bellows extension - you will need to add exposure if you shoot close up). If you use flash, then shutter speed determines how much ambient light will be recorded - set the shutter at the highest speed on the LF lens (these are leaf shutters, so they sync at any speed) to lose ambient, especially in the studio, or use a longer shutter speed to allow ambient in to fill the shadows or light the background). I sometimes take my 4x5 camera (or MF film camera) to a shoot together with an Olympus OM-1 with a 12-40 zoom - the OM to test exposure before I waste film. I was initially worried that shooting the little M43 camera at f22 and ISO 400 (when I had HP5 loaded in the 4x5 magazines) would result in ugly digital pictures (with grain and loss of sharpness from diffraction). Alas, after converting to B&W, the images were pretty good and complemented those taken on the 4x5 camera quite well. So, entirely possible to do a mixed shoot with a digital camera and 4x5, especially if the output is all black and white. Not so easy to match if you shoot in colour. Compared to MF digital, the film colour may look underwhelming, at least until you develop the rhythm and work-flow to achieve consistency.

 

[baudolino]

Last but not least: take a look at some YouTube videos by people who use 4x5 well. For example Todd Korol who uses exactly the combination that you have / are contemplating (Hassy X1DII plus a 4x5 camera, among others) to shoot landscapes and portraits. He also has very useful how-to videos about loading film into magazines etc. - basically all the info that you need as a newbie. Another wealth of info from Nick Carver's YouTube channel. Other film photographers worth following who use 4x5 (among others) are Jason Kummerfeldt or Oliver Prout or Tom Humble or Mat Marrash or Bryan Birks. These videos will give you a lot of insight on how to use the 4x5 film camera and what is achievable.

 

[darr]

Dennis,
I shoot 4x5 film in the studio and also two different digital backs on the 4x5. What replaced shooting test shots with Polaroids is a digital back on the camera. A conversion plate can attach your camera to the back of a 4x5, or use a digital back.

Shooting b&w film and hand developing is not difficult. I would not bother shooting color film if you already have digital for the 4x5.

If you are not into film because you see something special about the look my advice is to not waste your time as it is an art that takes more time and dedication than most people find they have. I say this as a career commercial photographer and educator that never gave up film, and has also been shooting digital technical cameras since they showed up.

I encourage all photographers to try shooting and hand processing b&w film in any format before they dive into 4x5. Here is an article I wrote on three easy ways to develop b&w film at the kitchen sink and the equipment necessary.

Black & White Film Developing: Stand, Semi-Stand, Standard | photoscapes

This article covers my 4×5, 120, and occasional 135 B&W film hand processing.

photoscapes.com

Best to you,
Darr

 

[rollsman44]

Thank you so much. This is VERY helpful and I will check it out. Will get back to the forum as soon as I look it up