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Help Deciding purchasing 4x5 Film Camera as it compares to Medium Format Digital

M

MartinN

Well-known member
darr said:
I encourage all photographers to try shooting and hand processing b&w film in any format before they dive into 4x5. Here is an article I wrote on three easy ways to develop b&w film at the kitchen sink and the equipment necessary.

Black & White Film Developing: Stand, Semi-Stand, Standard | photoscapes

This article covers my 4×5, 120, and occasional 135 B&W film hand processing.
photoscapes.com photoscapes.com

Best to you,
Darr
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I will start doing clip tests immediately and salvage an 35mm color negative film for that. The single most important factor when deciding if home color processing is feasible, in my opinion, is the shelf life of mixed chemicals (and opened stock bottles). When testing E-6 I found the shelf life very short, and even the same with stock so I decided not to do E-6. However, I found the excellent Compard digibase C-41 chemicals, which have great shelf life of stock chemicals. However, I found out the hard way that 3 months storage of mixed developer was a mistake, so I probably will never exceed 2 months, and at least the second month I will do clip tests. If some company could reformulate or invent E-6 chemicals with better shelf life, that would be the only feasible enabler for home E-6 in my opinion.

Stand or semi-stand is my prefered dev with Rodinal for BW. But there is always the damned risk of bromide drag or development ’drag’ with plastic Paterson reels, much less with Mod54. The bunching active streak is so apparent when scanning, so this defect is really annoying, when it shows up.
 
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B

baudolino

Well-known member
I share you experience, Martin. Decided not to do E-6 home processing for the same reason (fortunately there is still a lab in Vienna that does E-6). Also because some of the E-6 chemicals sets that initially looked interesting (like Cinestill Dynamic Warm) require mixing from powder at all sort of temperatures...just more hassle. I now only process C41 at home, using Fuji Hunt chemicals in the Filmomat. These are pretty easy to mix, at 20 deg Celsius. I only mix as much as I need in the filmomat (0.5l) and dispose after first use (accumulate more films before I process, so that I don't waste chemicals). I then use butane gas in spray (I think that's what it is) in the open bottles with the remaining concentrated stock, to stop oxidation (the bottles are good for 5 litres, unfortunately not available in smaller containers). This works quite well for me. On the other hand, negative to positive conversion from C-41 is a different can of worms (lack of up to date film profiles in the Flextight software for the X1 scanner certainly does not help).
 
M

MartinN

Well-known member
baudolino said:
I share you experience, Martin. Decided not to do E-6 home processing for the same reason (fortunately there is still a lab in Vienna that does E-6). Also because some of the E-6 chemicals sets that initially looked interesting (like Cinestill Dynamic Warm) require mixing from powder at all sort of temperatures...just more hassle. I now only process C41 at home, using Fuji Hunt chemicals in the Filmomat. These are pretty easy to mix, at 20 deg Celsius. I only mix as much as I need in the filmomat (0.5l) and dispose after first use (accumulate more films before I process, so that I don't waste chemicals). I then use butane gas in spray (I think that's what it is) in the open bottles with the remaining concentrated stock, to stop oxidation (the bottles are good for 5 litres, unfortunately not available in smaller containers). This works quite well for me. On the other hand, negative to positive conversion from C-41 is a different can of worms (lack of up to date film profiles in the Flextight software for the X1 scanner certainly does not help).
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Yes, I tried butane for the E-6 chemicals, and there has been rumours of people putting the chemicals in the freezer 😳.
I use Silverfast for severly underexposed negative films, because it has a ’Linear’ film profile, almost magic. For anything else I use VueScan which neutralizes rgb curves very nicely. Some color temp shifts goes corrected in Lightroom 6, the final step.

Btw, collecting films from say 6 months and doing everything, would give so much scanning chores, that I could not stand it.
 
darr

darr

Well-known member
When 4x5 transparencies were the norm in commercial photography, we had a JOBO ATL 1000 and used Tetenal chemicals, but even then, it was messy and smelly. As much as I love transparency film, and I do, I leave all my color work to digital.

My usual method for B&W processing is semi-stand and a Pyro developer, spending more time with 510 Pyro these days. As long as I slowly do my timed inversions, my film does not suffer from bromide drag, but I have experienced this in the past before I began intently doing my inversions slowly after 6-7 minutes of sitting. I use the MOD54 with Paterson tanks, and when I need to develop more than six 4x5 films, I use a JOBO 3010 with constant agitations on a Uniroller. Occasionally, if a problem happens, I can fix it in post. I figure it is part of hand processing.
 
P. Chong

P. Chong

Well-known member
I second not trying to develop E6. I did look at it long and hard. But decided to just developing BW and let a local lab do the developing…yes, fortunately there Is one lab doing it. Shipping the chemicals is an issue, especially to Singapore, where I live. as I understand it, nobody will ship to me. There is a local source for Fuji Hunt, but it is industrial and minimum purchase is in the order of several litres (gallons), which given the short shelf life is an issue.

BW, on the other hand, is quite fun And easy. I use a Stearman SP-445 and it works well. Tried ID-11 as well as D76. Looking to do a batch of Rodinal next.
 
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A

anyone

Well-known member
+1 for keeping hands off E6 self development. I didn’t like the process.

You also won’t get superior image quality compared to your Hasselblad body.

So unless you have fun with larger formats, like camera movements, and don’t mind the cost of film and development, there is no reason to go to 4x5”.

If you do like these things, 4x5” is extremely satisfying. I shot today four sheets of Rollei 25 with my Toyo 45A. :)
 
P. Chong

P. Chong

Well-known member
This is exactly the reason to shoot large format. I too find the process very satisfying, perhaps strangely. And when I get the 4x5 positives back from the local lab, a surge of joy surges as I look at it.

BW is not prohibitively expensive, esp if you develop yourself. I figure less than $1 a sheet. But to me a sheet of Provia developed is about $15. but how many sheets can you shoot for the price of an IQ4 150? I shoot probably less than 30 sheets a year.

anyone said:
+1 for keeping hands off E6 self development. I didn’t like the process.

You also won’t get superior image quality compared to your Hasselblad body.

So unless you have fun with larger formats, like camera movements, and don’t mind the cost of film and development, there is no reason to go to 4x5”.

If you do like these things, 4x5” is extremely satisfying. I shot today four sheets of Rollei 25 with my Toyo 45A. :)
Click to expand...
 
R

rollsman44

Well-known member
I am NOT going to use FILM. I decided that I might stay with Digital MF and Look into a Mamiya DF+ Body, Lens and Digital back. Thank you everyone for sharing the info you provided
 
G

gme2815

Well-known member
It's about "feeling" for me. I like the "feeling" I get when I look at film images more than the feeling I get when I look at digital images. But then I'm old. Digital is easier to work with, sure. But a drum-scanned Portra 160 color negative is just something special. I've spent my entire working life in the film industry, much of that time as a screenwriter. I tell any young person who asks me about a career in film that old saw, "If there's anything else you can do with your life, do it." I guess I feel the same way about large-format film photography. I'm on my way to 8x10 if you want to know the truth. For me, that's "it." I went to medium format digital to get back to the feeling of large format, but it never quite got there, though it was very, very good indeed. So my two cents is that if you don't need to do it for irrational, purely emotional, and artistic reasons, don't. But if it's an itch that just has to be scratched...scratch away.
 
D

daz7

Active member
Yep, shooting 4x5 film became ridiculously expensive.
I switched to digital a good number of years ago but I still use my trusty Sinar cameras for that. I much prefer to have full freedom of movements at the expense of speed or portability.
Obviously, everyone's requirements differ, but for me, Sinar P2 and P3 caters to my needs
Also, if 4x5 Provia shows up for a couple of dollars one miraculous day, I may shoot a couple of sheets again.
 
R

rollsman44

Well-known member
WOW That is Expensive. I most likely will NOT shoot film Cost and Lack of patience in getting the Neg back ( color) TY
 
Wall-H

Wall-H

Active member
Hi All,
I was about to start new thread but found this one. I've similar question but from perspective.
I'd Hate-love-hate relationship with film.
i wasn't sure if i want to do film, model i work with absolutely talked me into it. We did something like this.
www.getdpi.com

Films_503_Various_Stock

www.getdpi.com

There were lot of pictures that i was pretty sure i'd shot nailed, simply did not come back from lab. I'm not worried about getting exposure. but i'm definitely sort of guy that forgets to pull the dark slider out or make sure i roll to first film.
For the phase one move, i'd to sell all my remaining gear and film gear went with it and i was secretly happy. Models couldn't complain.

But then few of the shoot next when i shot

www.getdpi.com

Steal-Like-an_Artist-Black-Swan

www.getdpi.com

and
www.getdpi.com

P1RL_STLAART_BK_11459_Web.jpg

www.getdpi.com
and
www.getdpi.com

P1RL_STLAART_BK_11428_Web.jpg

Latest shoot
www.getdpi.com

and when I saw these in Viewfinder my first impression was. Gosh i wish i'd have film camera right now.
I believe these images are worthy of 4x5 film. (please correct me if i'm overrating myself)

I'm not into film because of its grain. (so availability of 50 or 100 film matters. I mostly find 400 and 800 films.) With my daily job and health condition and limited finances and limited space, I don't have time or resources to process film at home.
I do photoshoots probably once a 2 months and i click probably 15-20 digital images so buying some film and getting it processed by lab is not concern.

So from where i'm and from where i stand in photography perspective, my question is, When i get the thought of "i should shoot this picture on 4x5 film to give this moment a justice"
Is it a gear head in me trying to acquire 4x5 system or that is fair point and i'm there and you see these images in 4x5 would bring that special film magic?
 
darr

darr

Well-known member
Wall-H said:
So from where i'm and from where i stand in photography perspective, my question is, When i get the thought of "i should shoot this picture on 4x5 film to give this moment a justice"
Is it a gear head in me trying to acquire 4x5 system or that is fair point and i'm there and you see these images in 4x5 would bring that special film magic?
Click to expand...
It's truly a challenging question to answer because photography is deeply personal, and our perspectives are shaped by our unique vision and experiences.

Personally, I find immense satisfaction in the entire process of shooting and developing film, particularly black and white photography, which constitutes about 95% of my film work. There's a certain magic in black and white film that digital doesn't quite replicate, although this is a subjective preference, and others may feel differently.

When it comes to color, I believe digital photography excels, and it's where I prefer to use it.
However, I do occasionally miss the exquisite transparencies from my days in commercial photography.

It's possible that your desire to explore the 4x5 film format could be attributed to the 'gear head' aspect of our passion for photography.
Many of us have been in that phase, always eager to experiment with new tools and techniques.
Ultimately, the choice between film and digital, and the choice of format, depends on your personal connection with the medium and your creative goals.
It's a journey that's uniquely yours to embark upon.
 
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