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Ideas for post workflow with Hassey 907x-cfv ii 50c and xcd 21mm lens

emilediaz

New member
I am not new to digital photography or digital post workflows but I am new to the cfv ii 50c and the Hassey FFF file format.

Currently, I am shooting with 907x-cfv ii 50c and xcd 21mm lens. I have access to Adobe Lightroom, Photoshop, as well as Capture One, and of course, Phocus. My priorities are these: I want to make sure that I get to apply whatever Hasselblad wants me to, in the way of corrections for their lens. I appreciate the vignette and the distortion fixes that Phocus puts on the files coming off the xcd 21 mm lens. At the end of this process, I still want to have maximum flexibility in terms of a RAW or a DNG file, outside of Phocus. That way I can make any other edits in LR or Photoshop. I do not like the idea of exporting 16-bit tiffs out of Phocus as this will "bake" the settings into the file. I am sure I am being ultra-paranoid here and that the tiffs will be fine.

When I read the posts here, it seems the best option that people suggest is to simply stay in Phocus all the way through. I am sure I am wary of this pathway as I know LR and Photoshop way better than I know Phocus. But people here seem to imply that there is little that LR and Photoshop can do that Phocus cannot. (Of course, I mean that strictly in the context of processing raw files and not in the other forms of file management that LR allows for, or all the fancy features that Photoshop has to offer.)

I have noticed that the Adobe raw file processing, via Photoshop, or ACR, allows for much more corrections on the Hassey files from the cfv ii-50c in terms of vignetting and distortion---but this may be simply a case of "But this goes to 11.." in that Adobe is just giving you a slider that goes higher than what Phocus does on the lens correction.

My end goal is always to make very large prints; my exhibition prints are often 4 ft x 5 ft and so this issue is not just theoretical for me.

I'd love to hear people's experiences with similar workflows. I am especially interested in feedback from people who have handled files from the cfvii-50c and tried them out in Phocus as well as LR and Photoshop.

Really appreciate your help.
 
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FloatingLens

Well-known member
My experience is that it is possible to use DNG export from Phocus to stay close to a non-destructive RAW processing workflow after import into C1 (metadata need to be patched for C1 to recognize the file). The caveat however, is that in this case Phocus will not apply any of the builtin lens corrections. That's why TIF is my raw format of choice in C1 for the 907X/CFV II 50c.
 

Achim

New member
I also struggled with the idea to deal with the Phocus software. I‘m using CaptureOne for years and just got my first Hasselblad digi back. And it‘s a bit annoying, that C1 didn‘t handle the FFF files.

So my workflow is doing the basics in Phocus like white balance, highlights and shadow and of course all the lens correction stuff. After that I export a Tiff file and import that to C1 to do the fine tuning and meta informations.

I made some tests with Lightroom but recognized, that the rendering of the final image didn‘t has this quality compared to Phocus. Especially the transitions from bright areas to darker areas, recovering of highlights and noise reducing.

Greets
Achim
 

KlausJH

Well-known member
I work more or less entirely with Phocus with my Hasselblad files and C1 with everything else. There is hope (rumor?) Hasselblad support might come later this year. C1 is a bit behind at the moment. They neither support Sony RAW S/M nor the Sony HEIF Format.
I got used to work with Phocus only, the longer I do it, the more I like it.
 
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Geoff

Well-known member
Have tried to wrap myself around Phocus, and while it is good software, it has a very odd structure at the front end - in terms of saving edits, and even quite difficult to make a copy of the image for alternate views (trying to process both BW and color versions, can't figure out how to do that - so easy in C1 or LR).
It does seem a bit better than LR for color work, and the sensitivity in Phocus to curves and changing subtle color issues is quite good.

Wish C1 would open up to the files; for now, processing in LR.
 

usm

Active member
Same story here. After around 10 years with C1, Photoshop since version 1 when it was only bw, I changed to Phocus. One year later - I love it!!
I also prefer the keywording, it faster than C1. At least for me.

Keep on going....
 

Achim

New member
Same story here. After around 10 years with C1, Photoshop since version 1 when it was only bw, I changed to Phocus. One year later - I love it!!
I also prefer the keywording, it faster than C1. At least for me.

Keep on going....
So there‘s hope 🤣 I‘m into Phocus now for only a few weeks. So will work on it.
 

TechTalk

Active member
Have tried to wrap myself around Phocus, and while it is good software, it has a very odd structure at the front end - in terms of saving edits, and even quite difficult to make a copy of the image for alternate views (trying to process both BW and color versions, can't figure out how to do that - so easy in C1 or LR).
It does seem a bit better than LR for color work, and the sensitivity in Phocus to curves and changing subtle color issues is quite good.

Wish C1 would open up to the files; for now, processing in LR.
You might want to review and become more familiar with the Adjustments Browser tool, if you haven't already. It offers much more than the ability to "browse" adjustments. It's actually a very capable tool for saving, editing, copying, applying, viewing, and creating preset adjustment collections or individual adjustments. It may be worth going thru the several pages in the manual that detail the functions, at least it was for me. It's a unique tool, as best I can tell.

Also, in the preferences, there are three different options for saving adjustments. Any install on a new computer, I always set the option to "manual". But, your preferred method may differ from mine. "Compare View" option will allow you to view two different images or two versions of one image side by side.

Everyone, of course, likes what they're familiar with and experienced in using — including me. I've spent most of my time using Phocus for raw image processing, so it seems very intuitive to me. But, I've used it from its first launch when I switched to it from FlexColor. I admit that I relied a lot on the searchable PDF manual for some time. If you have questions, you can usually find answers pretty quickly there or online. Best of luck to you!
 
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TechTalk

Active member
I do not like the idea of exporting 16-bit tiffs out of Phocus as this will "bake" the settings into the file.
The only settings that will be baked into the TIFF file are the ones that you've made. You can always export another TIFF from your raw file.

As I mentioned above, it may be worth becoming familiar with the "Adjustments Browser" tool in Phocus. It will have a complete detailed history of every version of an image which you've saved or exported along with a record of every before and after adjustment you made to the image before saving or exporting. If you have an image with various cropped versions, color, B&W, whatever variations you've created, they're all readily available to view, export, copy, and more from the Adjustments Browser tool.

Beyond that, I've never had any concern with regard to working on a TIFF file in Photoshop after making initial adjustments in Phocus. There are relatively few adjustments you can make to the image where you're actually reaching back into the raw data as opposed to just altering plain old RGB pixels like you have in a TIFF file.
 

hcubell

Active member
I have been using Phocus software for many years and, all things otherwise being equal, I would tend to use it rather than Lightroom for actually processing the raw Hasselblad files into TIFFs for print, though I found the advantages in color and tone with Phocus to be marginal at best. However, that was then and this is now. The new masking tools introduced for LR last Fall are simply extraordinary in how effectively they permit me to target a whole range of adjustments to specific parts of the image. Yes, you can make local adjustments in Phocus, but the tools are primitive by comparison.
 

TechTalk

Active member
Thanks for your insights with using Lightroom. My use of Phocus has more recently been for reproduction where I'm using the Hasselblad L* RGB working space, custom color calibration function, and reproduction or reproduction low gain response curves for that specialized application. I'm also working with multi-shot files which only work in Phocus.

I appreciate your input and I'm sure others will as well.
 
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diggles

Well-known member
The new masking tools introduced for LR last Fall are simply extraordinary in how effectively they permit me to target a whole range of adjustments to specific parts of the image.
Yes. The new masking tools in LR and ACR are wonderful to use.

When using the CFVii50c with Schneider lenses, I'm only using Phocus to output 16-bit Tiff files if I have to create a Scene Calibration (LCC). Then I take the image into Photoshop for editing. If no LCC is needed then I do all of my processing in ACR and Photoshop. If you use non-destructive adjustments, the ACR/Photoshop combo offers the ability to use your RAW file all the way through the editing process. With C1 and Phocus you have to export the image before editing in Photoshop.

You are not limited to one RAW file layer either. You can adjust your RAW file to fine-tune the foreground in ACR, then you can make a copy and fine-tune the copy for the background in ACR, etc. Then you can use the tools available in Photoshop to blend them together to your liking. It works very well.

I want to make sure that I get to apply whatever Hasselblad wants me to, in the way of corrections for their lens. I appreciate the vignette and the distortion fixes that Phocus puts on the files coming off the xcd 21 mm lens.
Adobe Camera Raw has the XCD 21 lens profiles in the Optics control panel. I would assume that Lightroom does as well. Have you tried using them?
 

Geoff

Well-known member
You might want to review and become more familiar with the Adjustments Browser tool, if you haven't already. It offers much more than the ability to "browse" adjustments. It's actually a very capable tool for saving, editing, copying, applying, viewing, and creating preset adjustment collections or individual adjustments. It may be worth going thru the several pages in the manual that detail the functions, at least it was for me. It's a unique tool, as best I can tell.

Also, in the preferences, there are three different options for saving adjustments. Any install on a new computer, I always set the option to "manual". But, your preferred method may differ from mine. "Compare View" option will allow you to view two different images or two versions of one image side by side.

Everyone, of course, likes what they're familiar with and experienced in using — including me. I've spent most of my time using Phocus for raw image processing, so it seems very intuitive to me. But, I've used it from its first launch when I switched to it from FlexColor. I admit that I relied a lot on the searchable PDF manual for some time. If you have questions, you can usually find answers pretty quickly there or online. Best of luck to you!
Wise words, and thank you. It does seem like much of what is wanted is there, somehow, just have to either wrap the head around this. The compare view allows you to look at alternates of the same image, but can you save the variations? Looking for something like "clone variant" that gives another image, which can be worked and saved independently. Thanks...
 

emilediaz

New member
Thank you very much to all of you. Glad to see I am not alone. Also, you all made some excellent suggestions and I feel like I have a pathway ahead.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I have no problems using Lightroom alone for the 907x raw files when I'm not being absolutely critical about wanting all the Phocus lens corrections. When I am, I use Phocus and output TIFF files at 16bit per component for finalization in Lightroom.

I would say that I find myself using Phocus for about 1 in 10 photographs, because I prefer the workflow I've become accustomed to with Lightroom and don't really see much significant quality difference in the general case of my photography.

G
 

TechTalk

Active member
Wise words, and thank you. It does seem like much of what is wanted is there, somehow, just have to either wrap the head around this. The compare view allows you to look at alternates of the same image, but can you save the variations? Looking for something like "clone variant" that gives another image, which can be worked and saved independently. Thanks...
Anytime you want to manually save Phocus adjustments (using Mac OS) to an image you can do so: 1) from the Menu Bar » Image » "Save Adjustments", 2) with the keyboard shortcut Command + Option + S, or 3) by clicking the "Save Changes" icon in the adjustments toolbar located above the viewer window. Any batch modification made to an image or any export of an image is automatically saved.

Every variation of an image which you've ever saved or exported will be listed in the "Adjustments Browser" under "Embedded". Phocus will automatically assign an edit name using "date and time" like: "Edit 2022-07-26 11:43", or "Batch modify 2020-07-15 17:29", or "Export 2021-07-11 12:15" — but if you click the automatically assigned date/time name, you can rename the edited version of the image whatever you like such as "Linda B&W Vertical Crop" or whatever name you desire for that edit. You click "Load" to switch from one version of the image to another.

I've attached a sample screenshot using an image downloaded from Hasselblad. Here, I'm comparing the color image to a grayscale version and have renamed the edit listed in the Adjustments Browser from "Edit 2022-07-26 11:43" to "HK7 Case Grayscale". There is a great deal more that you can do using this tool.

Phocus Compare Adjust.png
 
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TechTalk

Active member
Looking for something like "clone variant" that gives another image, which can be worked and saved independently. Thanks...
So... with Phocus, there's no need to make a variant or a clone variant. You can open any of the previously saved versions of an image and start editing it immediately because you're always working on a new edit version ("clone variant") of the image. It will not overwrite or change a previously edited version, it just adds a newly created and edited version of the image. You'll see all of this in the "Embedded" tab of the Adjustments Browser.

If you like your new changes and wish to delete the previous version, then you can do that with the delete (-) function next to the gear icon in the Adjustments Browser, It will then ask you to confirm that you want to delete that edit version ("variant"). Like I said, you don't need to create a "clone variant", but if it feels more natural for you, just select the version you want to start with and click the plus (+) symbol in the adjustments browser and it will add a new identical version ("clone variant") with a new date/time name for you to start editing. If you save those changes, a new version is added to the history.

The version history can become very long which is why there is a delete function to edit the history and clean up versions that you no longer want or need. Since the entire version history is embedded in the image, any time you copy the image the history will always be included in the image. No separate side car files to keep track of and associated with images.
 

Geoff

Well-known member
Wow….thank you for the explanation. Grateful and will try anew. It’s a different approach but should be workable. Hope springs eternal.
 

TechTalk

Active member
I hope the explanations make sense. If you open the Adjustments Browser with the Embedded tab open and work on an image you'll quickly see how it all works.

The essential difference in concept is that with Phocus and .FFF (3F) files you have one image with an unlimited number of edited versions all stored inside the image itself. In compare mode, you can display two different versions from the same image side by side while adjusting one of them — a before and after view or just to compare versions.

The reason I mentioned earlier my setting the "Save Adjustments" preference in Phocus to "Manually" instead of "Always Save" is that I prefer to make all of my adjustments first and then save them before moving on to another image. You can also use "Ask Before Saving" which is largely the same. But, "Always Save" may create a rather long list of versions if you like to explore the various adjustment possibilities for an image just out of curiosity.
 
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