If only you had 247 MP... What could you have done?

[corvus]

View attachment 214699

This picture shows the construction stage of a striking department store building in Leipzig, Germany. Popularly known as a tin can or affectionately known in Saxon as a "Bemmbüchse" (bread box).

Blechbüchse (Leipzig) – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

.

At the beginning of this century, it was decided to replace the building and then reuse the metal facade from the 1970s in a new shopping mall. In 2010, the metal panels were dismantled and an even older facade of a department store from 1909 from the Wilhelminian period was revealed. During the socialist era, the bread box was simply put over it. This sparked a debate about which part and which era should have priority in monument preservation. Ultimately, the tin can is what it is today - but a 15m long section of the old facade was preserved in a kind of shop window.

I have captured this contradiction in the picture. I converted it to black and white in order to work out the contrast graphically and somewhat dramatically. The metal panels have already been removed here and especially in the left part you can see the old facade from 1909. Even in real life it already appeared very dark, so that it is only visible at second glance.

The picture I posted in this thread is from my exhibition at the time. And it is actually one that could have done with more resolution, especially to better work out the dark area on the left with the hidden facade. The original picture is only 12MP! and I think that perhaps doubling it would be enough - but that would be about 48MP, maybe 60MP. I don't know if even more resolution up to 247 can further reinforce the original message of the picture (?)

 

[Godfrey]

Hmm, lessee: If I "only" had 247 Mpixel, I'd have five times the spatial resolution of my highest resolution digital camera, and somewhere around 20% of the theoretical resolution that my 6x6/6x9 film cameras are capable of. Would it make any difference whatever to my photography?

On the one hand, I'm sure it would, and on the other, likely none at all. Hmm.

G

"Ask not of the Elves for they will answer both yes and no."

 

[Doppler9000]

Hmm, lessee: If I "only" had 247 Mpixel, I'd have five times the spatial resolution of my highest resolution digital camera, and somewhere around 20% of the theoretical resolution that my 6x6/6x9 film cameras are capable of. Would it make any difference whatever to my photography?

On the one hand, I'm sure it would, and on the other, likely none at all. Hmm.

G

"Ask not of the Elves for they will answer both yes and no."

Are you saying your 6x6/6x9 film cameras can resolve the equivalent of 1,250 MP?

 

[MartinN]

Are you saying your 6x6/6x9 film cameras can resolve the equivalent of 1,250 MP?

Rollei Ortho 25 ?
At least a good contender. I have a box of those.

Yes, according to my calculations , 330 linepairs / mm makes 660 pixels per mm
That makes about 1600 MP for 6x7, happiness

 

[anyone]

Nah, no way the resolution of the film is higher. I used RPX25 on 4x5", arguably a very high resolving film, and do not think that even in 4x5" it can beat my digital back. Not that it would matter: both are nicely detailed.

 

[MartinN]

Theoretically

 

[abruzzi]

Rollei Ortho 25 ?
At least a good contender. I have a box of those.

Yes, according to my calculations , 330 linepairs / mm makes 660 pixels per mm
That makes about 1600 MP for 6x7, happiness

Or Adox CMS II, theoretically capable of 800 lp/mm. I don't know what Kodak's old Tech Pan was capable of.

https://www.fotoimpex.com/shop/images/products/media/30945_5_PDF-Datasheet.pdf

I doubt there's any lenses that will resolve that (and cover 6x9). Plus its derived from microfilm, which is extremely contrasty and requires very careful developing.

 

[Godfrey]

Are you saying your 6x6/6x9 film cameras can resolve the equivalent of 1,250 MP?

I don't know for sure, all I know is my ancient Hasselblad Zeiss T* lenses on Panatomic X or similar can produce detail in 40x40 inch prints, printed at 300 ppi, that is mind boggling. That's the equivalent of somewhere around 138Mpixel output, if my calculations are correct ... and it's far from the degradation limit. They could probably get to 60x60 inch or larger without substantive degradation ... I don't know whether that's "1,250 MP" but it's mostly irrelevant, which was the point of my post.

G

 

[MartinN]

I have some Kodak Techpan 120, also. I can’t make up my mind to use it when I have other films. Prices on ebay supposed skyrocketing.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

If everything falls into place - lens, technique, scan you still get more resolution in 8x10 as per Tim Parkins last round of tests; it was close though. So the new 250-300 megapixel sensor should out resolve anything possible with LF glass on LF film. Don’t forget that theoretical resolution of film doesn’t mean anything if you need a large film area to equate an IQ4 or 5 and if there is no lens to provide enough resolution to achieve that.

There will be no better image capturing device than the new IQ5 and everyone is super focused on moeaning about why one would need more res etc although it will be the whole package that counts.

I personally am most interested in DR increases as this is very useful and if they achieve even just half a stop more I am totally in.

Canon is expected to release new high DR sensors with the R1 with dual amplification readout and Arri already has achieved 17 stops with their new Arri 35 so I am most hopeful for improvements there.

If on top we get a new XM body with EVF and compatibility with tech cams because it’s modular - it’s gonna be wild.

2025 is going to be a pivotal year for P1 and it will be finally a year of redemption, I hope, for those who stayed loyal.

It’s the total package that’s exciting - total package with tech advancements since 2019 on all fronts! It’s naive to just think it’s gonna be a same body with just more res. The end result will be a big temptation!

Can’t wait to put SK glass to work on the new system. I still see resolution reserves with all the late-gen WA SK symmetrics, the legendary 60 XL and the unicorn 120 ASPH.

 

[cunim]

I personally am most interested in DR increases as this is very useful and if they achieve even just half a stop more I am totally in.

Paul, I will be very impressed if they manage this. They will have to read out 250MP at a good clip if interimage lag is to be tolerable, so it would need some improvements in parallel readout, buffering or some other scheme Dynamic range is SNR, and managing better SNR with smaller pixels and equally fast readout is quite a challenge for Sony. Here's hoping.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Paul, I will be very impressed if they manage this. They will have to read out 250MP at a good clip if interimage lag is to be tolerable, so it would need some improvements in parallel readout, buffering or some other scheme Dynamic range is SNR, and managing better SNR with smaller pixels and equally fast readout is quite a challenge for Sony. Here's hoping.

Well look at what Arri managed. It is literally the biggest improvement in my view - when I shoot neg film I always have a “whole” look to each image in the sense that there’s almost no blow out sky - although great, the IQ4 still tops out well below neg films like Portra 400. Any inching towards that benchmark would be amazing.

 

[lookbook]

for me, photography is also learning to see, to look closely, to internalise, to experience and much more -
going out, taking photos and choosing the best angle afterwards can't compensate for that - that's too poor for me!

 

[vieri]

for me, photography is also learning to see, to look closely, to internalise, to experience and much more -
going out, taking photos and choosing the best angle afterwards can't compensate for that - that's too poor for me!

+1

Absolutely.

 

[mristuccia]

Like it always happens in this consumer society, if I had 247 MP I'd want more.
I would end up doing the same funny things I'm doing now, like frame stitching, just to have 1000+ MP.

I think (I hope!) I'm old enough to recognize this psychological trap. So, I don't want, nor I need, 247 MP.
BSI, good color science, wide DR, and a global e-shutter are my only real wishes, even on a 50 MP sensor. And most importantly, a good eye.

 

[Doppler9000]

I don't want, nor I need, 247 MP.

BSI, good color science, wide DR, and a global e-shutter are my only real wishes

Good to see your stoic, anti-consumerism constrains you to the bare necessities.

 

[Godfrey]

Good to see your stoic, anti-consumerism constrains you to the bare necessities.

Sometimes, restricting myself to a roll of Minox subminiature film provides enough constraint that *any* of my other film or digital cameras seems an incredible luxury.

Breakfast Half Eaten - Mountain View 2024
Minox C, APX100 film​

Enjoy! G

 

[JeffK]

Like it always happens in this consumer society, if I had 247 MP I'd want more.
I would end up doing the same funny things I'm doing now, like frame stitching, just to have 1000+ MP.

I think (I hope!) I'm old enough to recognize this psychological trap. So, I don't want, nor I need, 247 MP.
BSI, good color science, wide DR, and a global e-shutter are my only real wishes, even on a 50 MP sensor. And most importantly, a good eye.

the above is what interested me about the M11x series. The BSI and eshutter, the high resolution was a bonus.

 

[mristuccia]

Good to see your stoic, anti-consumerism constrains you to the bare necessities.

I see what you mean

But please notice that in that statement I didn't make use of any comparative grade ("-er" or "more..."). That was on purpose: once you have them, you are good to go. They are toggles, not scalar values. Even for DR, a 15stop DR is enough and we are already there.

 

[Doppler9000]

I see what you mean

But please notice that in that statement I didn't make use of any comparative grade ("-er" or "more..."). That was on purpose: once you have them, you are good to go. They are toggles, not scalar values. Even for DR, a 15stop DR is enough and we are already there.

I agree - we are past or approaching some key thresholds.