IQ 3100 on a Phase One DF

[f6cvalkyrie]

Hi !

I am considering purchasing a IQ 3100 back soon.
I have two Phase One DF bodies (don't ask me why) and a set of lenses ranging from 28 to 300 mm, some Phase One, some SK and some Mamiya

My questions :

1. Will the IQ 3100 back work on the P1 DF bodies ?
2. Will there be any IQ 3100 functionality lost on the DF bodies, compared to using them on an XF ?
3. Will the lenses be outresolved, especially the older Mamiya lenses (using most 120mm Makro, APO 200mm, and APO AF 300mm)
4. Focusing of my manual focus lenses will be easier and more precise thanks to the working Live View of the IQ 3100, right ?

Thanks in advance for any input from users of the back, the lenses or the camera body !

Rafael

 

[steve_cor]

All my lenses either back focus, or front focus. The 645 DF has no adjustment for that. You should get a DF+. It only has one autofocus adjustment setting, so you need to remember to change it every time you swap lenses. For me, it is a requirement. But it doesn’t apply if you are focusing with Live View.



—Steve.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Hi !

I am considering purchasing a IQ 3100 back soon.
I have two Phase One DF bodies (don't ask me why) and a set of lenses ranging from 28 to 300 mm, some Phase One, some SK and some Mamiya

My questions :

1. Will the IQ 3100 back work on the P1 DF bodies ?
2. Will there be any IQ 3100 functionality lost on the DF bodies, compared to using them on an XF ?
3. Will the lenses be outresolved, especially the older Mamiya lenses (using most 120mm Makro, APO 200mm, and APO AF 300mm)
4. Focusing of my manual focus lenses will be easier and more precise thanks to the working Live View of the IQ 3100, right ?

Thanks in advance for any input from users of the back, the lenses or the camera body !

Rafael

If you're truly considering an IQ3 100 purchase, you should very much consider selling one or both of your DF bodies and buying an XF body. You won't get much for the DF bodies, and you'll have some extra expense for an XF (but not that much more really, if you're buying an IQ3 100 anyway). The IQ3 100 will work on the DF body, but you'll be much happier with an XF.


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[Precision]

But to the point, yes, the IQ3s work on a DF, IQ4 does not.

that factoid kept me off of the IQ4- incompatible with my backup body.

bur now that XF bodies have fallen deep into the trough of disillusionment, they can be had pretty affordably (at least compared to prices a year ago) and they actually are worth the upgrade. I picked up a spare but still won’t give up my old Daf because it would sell for practically nothing, and if I even ended up with a very older P series M645 back- those don’t work on an XF.

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

"you'll be much happier with an XF"


Steve Hendrix/CI

thanks for your input, Steve !
Could you explain which differences I will notice with an XF instead of a DF ?
And, should I look for a HAP2 ?

CU,
Rafael

 

[Steve Hendrix]

thanks for your input, Steve !
Could you explain which differences I will notice with an XF instead of a DF ?
And, should I look for a HAP2 ?

CU,
Rafael

I just tried to think off the top of my head, I may be missing some things, but below is at least a partial list. All these advantages over DF may not matter to you (some things will), but they certainly do make it a more capable/valuable camera.

XF Advantages over DF/DF+:
User interface provides much higher ease of use
Removable finder
Waist level finder
Built-n focus stacking
Built-in time lapse
Built-in HDR
Built-in Profoto Air
Flash analysis
Vibration detection drive mode
Expanded metadata transfer
Custom bulb mode
Camera control from rear LCD
Programmable buttons
Compatible with IQ4
Compatible with IQ Battery (DF lithium battery and AAA battery carriage no longer available)
Battery power share with digital back
Auto Focus and Recompose Tech (AFr)
Multiple lens focus adjustment
Auto focus is more accurate, especially in low light
Recallable focus points (Hyperfocal, etc.)
Save and load settings from CF card
User configurable interface


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[kdphotography]

Take all that Steve has listed above----and then take note:

1. You'll enjoy the IQ3100 with the XF camera body (get the HAP2, especially if you shoot portraiture).
2. You'll be constantly frustrated by the DF/DF+ camera bodies, if you go this route.

The XF is big and heavy----but it simply is a great camera platform, especially in studio, or limited to short walks from the roadside.

Say no to the DF/DF+

Ken

 

[Precision]

I dunno about the "Constantly frustrated" thing - my olde DF was and is a pretty fine camera. Ive had 2, first was a Mamiya branded DF+, there one I kept was a Phase One branded DF. The Phase One had a noticibly smoother actuation/mirror slap. One body showed up with each one my Leaf Credos and so were basically "Free" , I sold off the Mamiya DF+ 40 later once the first XF showed up.


Of those improvements in Steves list, the "It uses the same battery for camera and back, and the built in Profoto trigger", both are sort of overcome if you use the accessory grip on the DF. However the profoto trigger in the AirGrip is very limited compared to the integration on the XF. The battery compatibility is worth the price or admission, even if you do end up with a much larger camera.

That said, Auto focus is basically both terrible and very very bad with a DF OR a DF+. Practically unusable in the studio, I swapped out the ground glass because I am way faster and more acurate with a split image manual setup. You also don't get most of the bells and whistles Steve listed, some are in the "I don't really use that" camp, but the stuff that DOES get used is not a short list. The DF is a fine camera as a backup, as it can do the manual things I need from a backup fine (with the AirGrip) but the XF is much much betterer.

In answer to the question re: HAP-2 . In my opinion it's very much worth it, to the point that I paid to upgrade my first body to the HAP-2. (second one I held off until I found a deal on an upgraded one). It is the least crappy AF that Phase One has ever offered.

And, if you haven't heard - XF prices are through the floor from where they started - while I expect them to continue to drop, it's a good time to hunt down a good late model XF.

 

[tcdeveau]

It seems like whenever these discussions come up the answer is usually “the DF will work, but just get the XF”

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

I just tried to think off the top of my head, I may be missing some things, but below is at least a partial list. All these advantages over DF may not matter to you (some things will), but they certainly do make it a more capable/valuable camera.

XF Advantages over DF/DF+:
User interface provides much higher ease of use
Removable finder
Waist level finder
Built-n focus stacking
Built-in time lapse
Built-in HDR
Built-in Profoto Air
Flash analysis
Vibration detection drive mode
Expanded metadata transfer
Custom bulb mode
Camera control from rear LCD
Programmable buttons
Compatible with IQ4
Compatible with IQ Battery (DF lithium battery and AAA battery carriage no longer available)
Battery power share with digital back
Auto Focus and Recompose Tech (AFr)
Multiple lens focus adjustment
Auto focus is more accurate, especially in low light
Recallable focus points (Hyperfocal, etc.)
Save and load settings from CF card
User configurable interface


Steve Hendrix/CI

Wow, Steve, an impressive list it is !
I am a landscape and nature photographer, I never shoot in a studio (till now) so some things won't help me much.
On the other hand, weight and dimensions are a factor when it comes to hiking for nature photos ...

Decision, decision, and unfortunately, there is no sales representative for Phase One in our country, so no way to lay my hands on an XF other than buying one ....

 

[miriquidi]

I am considering purchasing a IQ 3100 back soon.

Just in case you're getting in the future to the point to skip a DSLR-style body at all (for sake of mirror slap at this high resolution without stabilised sensor and for weight) and go to a more puristic way of a Phase One XT-like-type of camera (with Live-View and manual focus): The big 100 MP sensor isn't good in working with non retro-focus wide angle lenses. Especially if you shift the lens to correct for perspective distortion. So by choosing that type of digital back with a Non-BSI-100 MP sensor you're locking yourself to a DSLR-style camera or longer focal lengths. Choosing the smaller 50 MP variant my also be an option. Not just price wise.

 

[dougpeterson]

Wow, Steve, an impressive list it is !
I am a landscape and nature photographer, I never shoot in a studio (till now) so some things won't help me much.
On the other hand, weight and dimensions are a factor when it comes to hiking for nature photos ...

Decision, decision, and unfortunately, there is no sales representative for Phase One in our country, so no way to lay my hands on an XF other than buying one ....

For what it's worth, we've welcomed many "camera buying tourists" to New York or LA. The cost of the trip is usually a small fraction of the cost of a Phase One system, and these are nice cities to visit . So being in Belgium you might pick from one of several European capitals and make a trip of it.

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

I'll check the dealers list on the Phase One site, maybe I'll be lucky ...

Have a nice day and a nice weekend !
Rafael

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

Dealers in the European Union are rather few and far between. I couldn't find any XF Hap 2 from them.
But there are some on the Evilnet, but also not a lot from Europe, many more from USA and Japan.

While searching, I also came across a variant of the IQ 3100, that is the IQ3100 Trichromatic. It seems to be a bit more expensive however.
What's the difference, and is it worth ca 2000 $ or Euro ?

Also, I'm still not in the clear about the combination of my partly vintage lenses (from the Mamiya 645 times) and such a high resolution sensor.
Will the limitations of the lens clearly show in the pictures, taking into account that I mostly shoot landscape ans some cityscapes or architecture. No studio work ...
Any input on that ?

C U soon,
Rafael

 

[dougpeterson]

You can read an article I wrote on the Trichromatic by searching my name and “trichromatic” - I’m not allowed to post links since the forum sponsors forbidden competition. That’s the best explanation I’m aware of for the difference between a Trichromatic and non trichromatic.

You’re always welcome to come test in NYC. Best pizza in the world - sorry Italy!

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

Thank you, Doug, for this "blast from the past" ... interesting read so far, but, unfortunately, the second part of your writings has been lost to the darkness of the www and the DT website.
Any chance of a re-upload ?

C U,
Rafael

 

[dougpeterson]

You're looking for "Phase One Trichromatic: Part 2, the Results" which should pop up in google. I regret that the owners of this forum consider it forbidden for me to post such a link myself, but it is of course their forum and their choice/rules.

 

[f6cvalkyrie]

Thank you, Doug, I found and read it ... I will probably go for the "normal" IQ 3100 and use the difference towards the XF (if only I could lay my hands on one before, without crossing the big pond)

 

[miriquidi]

You're looking for "Phase One Trichromatic: Part 2, the Results" which should pop up in google. I regret that the owners of this forum consider it forbidden for me to post such a link myself, but it is of course their forum and their choice/rules.

I've also read it just out of curiosity. To me the concept raises one question from image 2 with the actual spectral response curves of the Trichromatic sensor and the "traditional" sensor. If you don't have the small red peak near the UV-end of the spectrum (on the left side, they call it the "left-most bump", in real world it's around 420 nm in spectral separated light), how do you discriminate purple from a traditional blue color (around 460 nm)?
I had once a shiny Canon Powershot camera. With this all flowers were blue. While with the eyes some of them were blue and some purple.

I'm not even sure, how the human eye does this, nor a camera. But according to this concept, capturing the purple end of a rainbow spectrum wouldn't work. I'm a bit confused about this. It should work, it's from Phase One.

 

[miriquidi]

It's a bit off-topic, but regarding purple colour reproduction I did some testing. There are other cameras known for excellent colour reproduction without the small red sensitivity peak near 420 nm like the Fujifilm S3 and S5 Pro. Curiosity, curiosity.

I took a energy saving bulb (Hg-bulb + some fluorescent stuff in there), put some kind of paper aperture in front of it to form a bright slit and photographed that slit through a diffraction grating (with the camera pointing towards the first diffracton order). In essence it's the same like photographing a rainbow with spectral colours on a black background.
Than I compared different cameras with my naked eyes perception.
The following picture is from the Fujifilm S3 Pro. The most left line is the 435,8 nm Hg emission line. The bright green line is 546,1 nm Hg.


The left line (that apears blue) should be purple, not blue. Not a single camera did get this right.
The Fujifilm gets the turquoise blob quite good, most cameras render it considerably blue shifted. The transition from yellow to orange to red should be shifted a bit more to the right, but also there the Fujifilm is quite good with a soft transition. The bright red line is rendered correctly, just colour shifted in the centre (vertically) due to massive overexposure.


The absolutely worst I got was the Panasonic GM5. A camera I really struggle colour wise and often convert to black and white to save shots. The progression from blue to turquoise appears as a sharp step. The same applies to the transition from green to red. There is really almost no yellow.


I think that's a really deep rabbit hole one can get in there (which colours a screen of the camera and computer can display, was my eye "trained" to the right white balance, things I forgot to consider). I will end that here. Capturing purple seems to be difficult. If colour reproduction is absolutely important, buy a LMK 6 colour.